Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #11

[kittythehare]

With all due respect, women all throughout that vigil were chanting her name before things escalated. Women were calling for her to be remembered and chanting "her name was Sarah" as evidenced by videos there. What's more, unfortunately, we do not know what Sarah would have wanted. And while I appreciate the article her friend wrote, neither does she. She cannot say for certain despite her saying she can. No one is here to gatekeep how anyone grieves and I believe it should stay that way.

It is upsetting of course that things escalated the way they did and that some took the opportunity to be violent and harmful.

Do you not think the 'protest' would have been a lot more effective had they waited a few months?
Sarah has not even been buried yet.
The extraordinary haste is reactive at best.
If it's about Sarah, maybe consider her loved ones.

Anyway, this convo does not really belong on WS.
And I'm here long enough to know better than to participate.

 

[Nancywho]

It was Sarah's friend who said that she would not want her murder to be politicized and that the actions of one man do not reflect all men or all police officers. I think it's more that her family and friends don't want people using her murder to support a cause.

Her friend wrote, "Sarah was a humble, private and sensible person and I feel certain she would not agree with the circumstances of her disappearance being used to promote these kinds of ideas."

Police had already warned the public that the event would be unlawful, that's why organizers called for a national doorstep vigil instead.

There's nothing wrong with being angry and protesting, but doing it in the middle of a pandemic is probably not a good idea.

Difficult when the very cause is women's safety and if more had been done about that, Sarah herself might still be here.

And with the pandemic, absolutely unfortunate timing but as with George Floyd's death sparking the BLM movement, sometimes when horrible things happen, they propel people to act to prevent those things continuing to happen, and that can't wait, even for a pandemic.

 

[Railsam85]

Body of Sarah Everard was found in a builder's bag and identified using dental records

Has anyone previously posted this? A lot more information than the English press are reporting.

Information regarding Sarah’s phone has not been found, more details regarding cctv catching Sarah’s movements, and a white Vauxhall Astra caught on camera and two figures who is alleged to be WC and Sarah.

 

[Seni]

Apologies for a naive question.
Does anyone know if UK police officers have their fingerprints taken?

Yes, DNA and fingerprints are taken so as not to mess up crime scenes.

 

[catchingdelivery]

Apologies for a naive question.
Does anyone know if UK police officers have their fingerprints taken?

I've googled it but can't find an answer. Thinking about it logically though, I'd imagine a Police Force would check the applicant is suitable to become an officer by ruling out their fingerprints and DNA from any crimes as part of the vetting process

 

[sagesun11]

Do you not think the 'protest' would have been a lot more effective had they waited a few months?
Sarah has not even been buried yet.
The extraordinary haste is reactive at best.
If it's about Sarah, maybe consider her loved ones.

Anyway, this convo does not really belong on WS.
And I'm here long enough to know better than to participate.

Yes, I agree we should keep this brief. I am a long-time reader but really don't post much. I don't think the majority of those who attended intended for it to be a protest and certainly not in the way that it was. I think many (myself included) just find it hard to isolate the issue of violence against women from a significant case of violence against women (given the nature of the alleged offender, how it's all alleged to have happened, etc.).

I cannot imagine the grief her family is experiencing and of course, nothing we do can bring her back for them. However, I think many feel that things cannot continue as they are and women (like Sarah) have the right to feel safe and to their safety, anytime & anywhere. EDITED to clarify x

I do respect that we may differ in our specific views and agree to move on to discussing what WS was intended for.

 

[Stella123]

Do you not think the 'protest' would have been a lot more effective had they waited a few months?
Sarah has not even been buried yet.
The extraordinary haste is reactive at best.
If it's about Sarah, maybe consider her loved ones.

Anyway, this convo does not really belong on WS.
And I'm here long enough to know better than to participate.

I know what you mean. I shouldn't have engaged either and it doesn't really belong on here either. Not quite focused on what we're here for. Maybe I'm old but reacting quickly isn't always the best way - and thinking about the greater good of all during a pandemic would be kinder. There are other ways - as many have done - for a tribute.

 

[Seni]

Body of Sarah Everard was found in a builder's bag and identified using dental records

Has anyone previously posted this? A lot more information than the English press are reporting.

Information regarding Sarah’s phone has not been found, more details regarding cctv catching Sarah’s movements, and a white Vauxhall Astra caught on camera and two figures who is alleged to be WC and Sarah.

Yes it has been posted. Pls check.

 

[Alethea]

Other considerations:

You can't do fingerprint identification if you don't already have a set of fingerprints on record, or if the fingerpads have been damaged.

You can't do DNA analysis if the person was not the child of either of the parents, ie: was adopted and prior DNA testing hadn't been done.

I am not making any claims, just stating some other reasons.

JMHO

Agreed on the fingerprints. On DNA, it is expensive and takes a long time compared to dental records which are readily available. So I don’t think you’d even think about DNA if you have dental impressions to compare.

 

[Railsam85]

Yes it has been posted. Pls check.

Apologies halfway through thread 10 and came across this article after looking up on Google what were builders bags. Will get back to catching up!

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Does anyone know why the police would opt to have the body identified by dental records and not by a family member? Sorry if that sounds crass but would a reason be that the body is in too distressing a sight to see (I don’t want to give example but hopefully you know what I’m getting at) vs totally unrecognisable due to decomposition or burning?

It's impossible to speculate on any particular mutilation, dismemberment or animal activity which may have befallen SE.

I suspect that SE's fingerprints were not in the National Biometric Database. Fingerprints are the primary biometric method for identifying bodies.

Where fingerprints cannot be taken or scanned due to decomposition or mutilation then dental records will be used. If the teeth are too badly damaged then a DNA sample is the next option.

Identification by someone well known to the deceased is only possible when the body is not badly decomposed or damaged. As a murder victim found after a number of days in woodland, I doubt this was the case!

 

[Stella123]

Quite right - but WC emailed his boss on 6th March saying he no longer wanted to be armed. Which suggests access to real guns. I agree that if confronted with what looks like a gun you would likely comply. JMO but it seems possible that he could have actually had a gun. If he didn't hand his in after his last shift then I'm concerned (given that email) that he used it in some way (to gain power or worse) on 3rd March.

Think you're right - think about the mindset of someone who has committed a crime and has tried to hide it. A few days later it's all over the media and police out in force searching everywhere you've been. Major panic and more attempts to hide the crime - either by covering the evidence even further (of the crime) or by setting up a scenario where you could evade being investigated (suffering from stress, off sick, not wanting to do the job any more/handling weapons). Or buying time to think about an escape? All supposition, speculation and MOO, JMO.

When we think about why someone did something, we think as non criminals and think of normal reasons or even empathetic reasons. But if you've committed a crime you are only thinking about protecting yourself from discovery IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

It would mean the person is not recognizable where they could be conclusively identified by sight. It doesn’t have to be complete destruction. If someone’s face is badly injured and they do not have any identifying marks like a tattoo, specific birthmark, etc., LE may not be confident in a visual identification that would rule out all other people. Visual identifications are usually followed up with further checks so it is not too odd.

We don’t know what happened but I don’t think we can or should jump to worst case scenario.

Yes, Quawans Charles, the 15 year old who was found dead last year had only been deceased for four days. His face was so badly disfigured that his parents compared his body to that of Emmitt Till. He was unrecognizable.

I don't think that they waited to formally identify Sarah's body is any indication of what happened to her. There's no way to know at this point.

There are many things that can speed up decomposition, such as being exposed to the elements and the type of wounds the victim may have received. Imo

 

[Stella123]

Apologies halfway through thread 10 and came across this article after looking up on Google what were builders bags. Will get back to catching up!

AKA Dumpy bags in my neck of the woods. Try googling dumpy bags and then click on "images". Builders bags is quite a polite description. Commonly sized to hold 1 ton of soil etc.

 

[Gibbo214]

It's impossible to speculate on any particular mutilation, dismemberment or animal activity which may have befallen SE.

I suspect that SE's fingerprints were not in the National Biometric Database. Fingerprints are the primary biometric method for identifying bodies.

Where fingerprints cannot be taken or scanned due to decomposition or mutilation then dental records will be used. If the teeth are too badly damaged then a DNA sample is the next option.

Identification by someone well known to the deceased is only possible when the body is not badly decomposed or damaged. As a murder victim found after a number of days in woodland, I doubt this was the case!

Cold weather and her body was in a bag. A body is not subject to decomposition after days and animals would not have got to her.

 

[Stella123]

I am not sure how we can know whether or not animals would not have got to the body. It was in a woods.

 

[sagesun11]

IMO Yes, I think it'll be too hard to speculate on much about the body as we don't know exactly how it was contained. From living in Ashford and my partner being born & raised in Ashford, we've been through many of the woods, including near where she was found and as others have said, much is very overgrown and full of wildlife.

 

[Gibbo214]

I am not sure how we can know whether or not animals would not have got to the body. It was in a woods.

In a tough builders bag.

 

[Gibbo214]

IMO Yes, I think it'll be too hard to speculate on much about the body as we don't know exactly how it was contained. From living in Ashford and my partner being born & raised in Ashford, we've been through many of the woods, including near where she was found and as others have said, much is very overgrown and full of wildlife.

It was contained in a builder's bag. It has been reported.

 

[sagesun11]

In a tough builders bag.

Yes, was there anything saying the state of the builder's bag I'm wondering? I read from one MMS report (which I've tried to find to link but it may have been one of the many that have been pulled) that her body was "wrapped" in the builder's bag. So I'm not sure how exposed it was. Was it buried? Placed with other things as the site is known for flytipping? MOO