Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #11

[Herat]

Agreed on the fingerprints. On DNA, it is expensive and takes a long time compared to dental records which are readily available. So I don’t think you’d even think about DNA if you have dental impressions to compare.

They may have also done DNA, to be doubly-sure.

We were just told they used dental records.

In this day and age there does need to be a very specific, independent identification of the decedent, especially with a murder and a concealed body.

I would not go too far in presuming that dental records means something really awful, other than she was deceased and, sadly, some means of her death may have made facial recognition less likely. I'm thinking a gunshot injury. My supposition is also that she did not have on the clothing she was last seen in, and perhaps all the other LE investigation of the grounds around the home and/or the garage are looking for these items.

 

[Stella123]

Yes, was there anything saying the state of the builder's bag I'm wondering? I read from one MMS report (which I've tried to find to link but it may have been one of the many that have been pulled) that her body was "wrapped" in the builder's bag. So I'm not sure how exposed it was. Was it buried? Placed with other things as the site is known for flytipping? MOO

I think the details are perhaps being saved for when further evidence is revealed. It would almost be better to know as many have imagined all kinds of things that may have been done to make the body unrecognisable.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Cold weather and her body was in a bag. A body is not subject to decomposition after days and animals would not have got to her.

I assume that is your opinion and not fact?

Decomposition as a process begins soon after death.

The temperatures have not been anywhere near cold enough to stop decomposition. In fact it has been reasonably mild in my part of the UK, during the past two weeks or more.

Flies will still be drawn to the body soon after death and lay their eggs.

Scavenging animals will also sense the body.

We do not know if the bag was well sealed or compromised.

 

[Seni]

IMO you are seeing it from an American viewpoint. It is not 'a cause' and IMO it is not political.

It's impossible to speculate on any particular mutilation, dismemberment or animal activity which may have befallen SE.

I suspect that SE's fingerprints were not in the National Biometric Database. Fingerprints are the primary biometric method for identifying bodies.

Where fingerprints cannot be taken or scanned due to decomposition or mutilation then dental records will be used. If the teeth are too badly damaged then a DNA sample is the next option.

Identification by someone well known to the deceased is only possible when the body is not badly decomposed or damaged. As a murder victim found after a number of days in woodland, I doubt this was the case!

Many thanks. Originally referred to as "remains" not as body. Does that mean anything? In terms of distinction.

Also we are told that the identification was by teeth.

Sarah went missing a little of a week ago. Cold weather. How come she would only be identifiable by her teeth?

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO you are seeing it from an American viewpoint. It is not 'a cause' and IMO it is not political.

As I said, I was repeating the words of her friend, who I believe lives in the UK. She would know Sarah better than any of us, and it was her viewpoint.

I guess I just don't understand why it's so hard to obey the law or respect a victim's wishes. I don't see how being American has anything to do with it.

 

[sagesun11]

I think the details are perhaps being saved for when further evidence is revealed. It would almost be better to know as many have imagined all kinds of things that may have been done to make the body unrecognisable.

I can't imagine it'll be good when it's ultimately detailed, certainly.

 

[Stella123]

Many thanks. Originally referred to as "remains" not as body. Does that mean anything? In terms of distinction.

Also we are told that the identification was by teeth.

Sarah went missing a little of a week ago. Cold weather. How come she would only be identifiable by her teeth?

I think that's just been answered above

 

[Stella123]

As I said, I was repeating the words of her friend, who I believe lives in the UK. She would know Sarah better than any of us, and it was her viewpoint.

I guess I just don't understand why it's so hard to obey the law or respect a victim's wishes. I don't see how being American has anything to do with it.

Also out of respect to her friends and family who are grieving the most, no doubt. IMO. I kind of wish no-one had suggested a vigil on the common. Even if it had been well organised and socially distanced (or intended to be), you never know how many people are going to turn up to these things - could be thousands and it can get out of hand or turn into violence or a riot - so there needs to be a Police presence. Unfortunately with any peaceful gathering or protest, there is almost always a handful of extreme types who want more than that. It couldn't be well organised at such short notice, even if permitted.

I also think it has nothing to do with nationality. It is also one thing to risk Covid in a crowd as a personal choice, but the Police risk their lives/getting Covid being in contact with the public.

 

[Lilbitcurious]

if the body was sheltered in a heavy duty bag like mentioned would it be affected by the elements?
Someone posted earlier about why it’s kidnapping?? If I remember correctly that’ kidnapping is taking them, but taking and THEN keep them illegally imprisoned??
Plz correct me if that’s wrong

 

[Gibbo214]

Also out of respect to her friends and family who are grieving the most, no doubt. IMO. I kind of wish no-one had suggested a vigil on the common. Even if it had been well organised and socially distanced (or intended to be), you never know how many people are going to turn up to these things - could be thousands and it can get out of hand or turn into violence or a riot - so there needs to be a Police presence. Unfortunately with any peaceful gathering or protest, there is almost always a handful of extreme types who want more than that. It couldn't be well organised at such short notice.

There was no violence. There was yelling and shouting. The only violence came from the police. If the police had any sense, they would have stayed away.

 

[MsBetsy]

Many thanks. Originally referred to as "remains" not as body. Does that mean anything? In terms of distinction.

Also we are told that the identification was by teeth.

Sarah went missing a little of a week ago. Cold weather. How come she would only be identifiable by her teeth?

I have seen "remains" and "body" used interchangeably by LE. A dead body is the "remains" of a person. Imo

 

[Lilbitcurious]

Has EC been charged and released on bail, or not charged and released on bail??

 

[Stella123]

There was no violence. There was yelling and shouting. The only violence came from the police. If the police had any sense, they would have stayed away.

The Police are doing the job they are told to do by their superiors, who are following a law made by the Government during the pandemic. I don't think removing and restraining people is violence. How can the Police stay away? They were asking the public to stay away - some obliged but things got out of hand.

The matter went to court before it happened to see if it could be done lawfully and the group wanting the vigil lost the case in court. Which they accepted, but the seed had been sown. Unless the government made an exception for that one event, the Police had to prevent a mass gathering that was unsafe re Covid.

Sarah Everard vigil organisers lose court challenge

 

[Stella123]

Has EC been charged and released on bail, or not charged and released on bail??

Charged but held in custody.

Sarah Everard: Wayne Couzens appears in court charged with murder

 

[Stella123]

if the body was sheltered in a heavy duty bag like mentioned would it be affected by the elements?
Someone posted earlier about why it’s kidnapping?? If I remember correctly that’ kidnapping is taking them, but taking and THEN keep them illegally imprisoned??
Plz correct me if that’s wrong

I think earlier it was explained that kidnapping is being taken against their will. JMO

 

[Lilbitcurious]

Charged but held in custody.

Sarah Everard: Wayne Couzens appears in court charged with murder

No EC his wife?

 

[Candytuft]

About the way someone can force someone in a car... many years ago I was a battered wife and my husband used to search for me when I ran away. He would pull up, open the passenger door, nip out leaving his door open run round grab my hair or my collar pull me to the car and just bash my face onto the car roof. Stunned and hurt, I was pushed into the car. Believe me, this all took a matter of seconds. Seconds. Both doors were always open every time. I suppose it saves opening car doors and saves valuable getting away time. No time to take breath to scream, because you need a lungful of air to do that.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

There was no violence. There was yelling and shouting. The only violence came from the police. If the police had any sense, they would have stayed away.

As it was an unlawful gathering, following the earlier High Court ruling, the police had a duty to be present.

The incident strategy and tactics used needed a more considered approach in the circumstances.

 

[Stella123]

No EC his wife?

On bail until April

 

[Seattle1]

So few armed officers in UK and/or the MET but if WC's division remained on call, would this warrant armed officers keeping their firearms after a shift? I'm wondering if WC would have had access to his firearm to take SE at gunpoint -- or shoot her for that matter.

Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection (PaDP)

 

[ShayshayH]

Assisting an Offender - Criminal Law Act 1967

Where a person has committed an arrestable offence, any other person who, knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence or of some other arrestable offence, does without lawful authority or reasonable excuse any act with intent to impede his apprehension or prosecution shall be guilty of an offence.

There are many acts that may amount to assisting an offender.

An alibi, if suspected to be false, could result in an arrest on suspicion of assisting an offender, but I repeat, so could many other actions.

Yes my point wasn’t about an alibi in general, it was in reply to a poster who suggested his wife believed him to be at work and then was arrested for assisting an offender by saying he was at work, and that being the false alibi. The wife would have to know her alibi was a lie for it to be an offence on her part

 

[Gibbo214]

Yes my point wasn’t about an alibi in general, it was in reply to a poster who suggested his wife believed him to be at work and then was arrested for assisting an offender by saying he was at work, and that being the false alibi. The wife would have to know her alibi was a lie for it to be an offence on her part

And it would have to been obvious that it was, for her arrest to come so quickly.

 

[Lilbitcurious]

On bail until April

Yes to appear at a police station April, was what I thought I heard the Assis.Comm say to reporters in update? IMO