Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #13

[imstilla.grandma]

Someone was asking earlier about the paintballing site. Reposting this link that gives the history of it and more info - it is next to the wooded area where the body was found.

If it has been a hotspot for fly tipping recently, the accused may have thought a body wrapped in a builder's bag may not be easily found amongst a load of fly tipping.

With all the extra searching in that area now, I am also wondering if they are possibly looking for more bodies. As well as items for evidence.

"A resident who lives nearby says the secluded plot has become a fly-tipping hotspot, particularly during lockdown."

The story of the abandoned leisure complex at centre of Sarah murder case

What is fly-tipping?

 

[Gibbo214]

What is fly-tipping?

Illegal dumping of rubbish ranging from old mattresses and household garbage to building offcuts and rubble.

 

[Kelly C]

I’m a specialist in psychosis (it’s my job for the last 12 years) I do not think for one minute this guy had any form of psychosis. Sadly lots of people with psychosis are seen as “psychopathic” There is a huge difference between the two. People with psychosis usually retreat from the world, are scared, hear voices, are delusional or paranoid. They are not cold blooded killers.

It does make me wonder whether he has had some sort of breakdown with psychosis. Sounds devastated about the garage. Maybe he wanted to keep it running for his dad and wife didnt want to because of having children and all the financial worry that comes with running a business.

Maybe he has held some sort of resentment against her and when his dad has died has had a breakdown of some description. Psychosis can completely change people, maybe that's why he has had time off work etc.

Just trying to get into the head of someone and figure out why someone who on the face of it is successful and has a lovely family life has turned into a murderer, it's like some sort of self destruction almost.

 

[Parker Knoll]

What is fly-tipping?

Dumping rubbish - usually on private land.

 

[Stella123]

Found this info - which more or less confirms SE did not know the accused. For anyone who still thinks that is a theory. It's behind a paywall but the info is at the start which is readable.

"
Police sources have told The Times that the investigation is being treated as a “stranger attack”.

Detectives have spent days searching for digital evidence but have found no link between Everard, 33, and Wayne Couzens, 48, the diplomatic protection officer who was arrested on Tuesday night on suspicion of her kidnapping and murder."

Sarah Everard’s attacker ‘was a stranger’ | News | The Times

 

[MsBetsy]

Illegal dumping. Pretty sure it comes from the phrase "on the fly" I.e tipping (dumping) while on the move (on the side of the road)

I thought maybe it had something to do with cow-tipping at first. It's disgusting that her body was thrown away in an area known for dumping trash.

 

[Wizzywig]

Delurking for the first time on WS. Hi to everyone following this gut-wrenching case. The care and sensitivity with which it's being discussed is really touching to see.

I agree with Kelly C regarding the possibility of the accused having had a psychotic break. I'm an ex MH nurse, and I have never seen a service user who would be able to hold their disordered thought processes together for long enough, to commit a crime like this.

With the hire car perhaps suggesting an element of forward planning in this murder, it is very unlikely that someone having an episode of psychosis could follow such a plan without being distracted by their own racing/disjointed thoughts/ideas of reference/paranoia/responding to unseen stimuli, or whatever other format their psychosis takes.

Even if the murder wasn't planned, trying to execute and then conceal the events afterwards would be so difficult.

Psychosis is sometimes likened to experiencing waking dreams/nightmares. Imagine executing and concealing a murder in a dream like state, being unsure of what is real and what isn't. Whilst simultaneously normally being terrified of whatever thoughts/beliefs/events you believe you are experiencing.

I don't believe, JMO, that the person who killed SE was experiencing a psychotic or bipolar episode. Likely a personality disorder, yes, because by default someone who murders as opposed to kills in self defense, is clearly not operating by the societal rules that most of us incorporate within our personalities from an early age. But a personality disorder is a mental disorder rather than a mental illness. It is wholly based on someone's entrenched and dysfunctional personality rather than an acute illness.

All this is JMO and MOO.

 

[Lizziebo]

Dumping rubbish - usually on private land.

It's so bloody horrible, isn't it?

 

[Lizziebo]

Dumping rubbish - usually on private land.

It's so bloody horrible, isn't it?

 

[Wizzywig]

Oh no, reading back my post, I meant carried out when I wrote executed. I am so sorry for such crass use of language and have no idea how to edit my post.

Apologies to all.

 

[Lizziebo]

I sometimes think that a person in a picture couldn't have possibly killed anyone. Esp Ted Bundy et al.... Especially when you see them in family pictures. But my friend used to work in a prison and she had to sit in front of actual murderers in a counselling sense. They told their story as though it was nothing.

 

[Stella123]

"Heated anger". This - and complete lack of empathy for any humanity. Having a breakdown is not this and neither is it an excuse to kill. Speculation, MOO.

 

[Satchie]

"Heated anger". This - and complete lack of empathy for any humanity. Having a breakdown is not this and neither is it an excuse to kill. Speculation, MOO.

The sad thing is it's not anger with the Ted Bundy types. It's a positive experience, for them.

 

[Seattle1]

Is this the only place that it's been reported that the postmortem was inconclusive? Or was there an official announcement from the Met?

OP's link credits the MET but also does not attribute the statement to a spokesperson. It's too informal for me to take it seriously --didn't even name the pathologist. In my experience -- a high-profile case like this, I think they'd defer to the Coroner for all official statements and not make any statement about the cause of death pending the inquest. MOO

On Monday the Met said a postmortem on Everard’s body was inconclusive as to the cause of death, after the 33-year-old’s remains were found in woodland in Kent. An inquest into her death is expected to be opened and adjourned this week. A serving Met officer has been charged with her murder.

 

[frostyfox]

Really spooked about the forest location for the deposition site, saw some earlier comments questioning how the suspect may have accessed the area, but there seems to be a road alongside which fly-tippers must use? Saw some photos on one of the unauthorised media sites which show close up of the huge fly-tipped pile. Please can someone share a link to the aerial view showing the white tent in the forest? I remember seeing it on msm news but can't find it now, would like to get bearings and know if it's the same area as the fly-tipping.

 

[Lizziebo]

Oh no, reading back my post, I meant carried out when I wrote executed. I am so sorry for such crass use of language and have no idea how to edit my post.

Apologies to all.

It wasn't crass, don't worry. You gave your experienced opinion and that is fantastic. Please don't worry about what you've said. It's a very supportive forum x

 

[Neuromantic]

Here’s a paper that shows that after excluding ‘decomposed and skeletonized’ bodies almost none had an indeterminate cause and manner of death. I would thus guess that the body, for whatever reason, was too decomposed, or similar, for a cause of death to be determined.

Can you see what the parameters for an undetermined death are? I know it says that much less than 1% were "truly undetermined in cause and manner" but would, for example, a determined manner (e.g homicide) but undetermined cause result in that death being excluded from the less than 1% statistic? The "truly undetermined" wording makes me wonder, too, if it perhaps then excludes deaths where there are signs of a certain cause but not enough to legally declare it cause of death, if that makes sense? Or do they define what stage of decomposition they then use to exclude a death with undetermined manner/cause?

I don't know if you have access to the full paper, and I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm quite interested in the study design. I don't mean to disregard your thoughts or opinions at all though!

 

[Wizzywig]

It wasn't crass, don't worry. You gave your experienced opinion and that is fantastic. Please don't worry about what you've said. It's a very supportive forum x

Thank you. That's really kind x

 

[CaligulaBlushed]

I'm a bit bemused by the car collision theory, either deliberate or accidental. This clearly didn't happen because there would be evidence of an impact at the scene and also on the seized cars.

The bus video footage will have given the police a lot to go on. We have only been provided with partial details so all theories will of course contain holes. The accused would have been arrested for a crime in addition to kidnapping if there was any sign of hitting her with a car deliberately or accidentally and not seeking assistance.

<modsnip: Discussion of IE is off limits>

Regarding the ongoing searches in Sandwich, I wouldn't be surprised if the police are just being thorough and retracing all of the suspect's known movements post alleged crimes/ pre-arrest, in order to exhaust all potential evidence locations. Any of the family phone GPS histories could have been used for this purpose + CCTV.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Wouldn't know whether it could be called a breakdown or a moment of heated anger.

I keep going back to how their encounter came about. Was he just waiting there for any young woman to walk past? Or had he been following her for some while? (any cameras at the top of that road where it crosses the A24?) My guess is the former. If he caught her with her hood up, and in the clothing she was wearing, he might have also taken her for a younger girl. I think he may have stopped her, exposed himself, and instead of her just running away and showing fear as he might have expected, she confronted him and either made to get her phone to call the police or take a picture of him or the car reg, and things just escalated from there when he knew he had to stop her doing that. IMO.

Going back to a video on YouTube of the crime scene forensic search at Poynders Road on March 9 (Google it; don't think can be linked here).

Where they are looking, and presumably where car was, is a dropped kerb for an entrance/exit to the rear of the flats. Was this where he had been waiting? Did he drive out and accidentally knock into her, hence his pulling out on to road, jumping out of car quickly and leaving driver's door open, going round to her, opening passenger door and saying he'd take her either home or to hospital? The metal fence also looks like something has gone into it, but could have already been like it.

Just another personal thought.

I have asked a mod if this vid can be used here.