UK UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #7

[Angleterre]

Would anyone believe that of the kind of job he had, as a police guard on the US embassy? Do they have to conduct enquiries? Wouldn't it be very easy to disprove? I have no detailed knowledge , so these are genuine questions.

Police roles are interchangeable and irrespective as to wether you are an armed officer or a dog handler or a CID officer, you’re first and foremost a Police officer and if you see something whilst out and about on patrol or even route to and from places or you are assigned a specific job nearby which necessitated you taking a look in this area , he can and if is astute enough, will , use this as to a reason for his DNA being present. There are a million reasons why that may be so and doesn’t correlate to their role !

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

She is a journalist so I believe it’s permissible. From your link and thank you so much. The flowers got to me. Officers must also be devastated and should be supported. This is a gruesome task no one enjoys.
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I don't think so. She is not MSM. And the 'media company' is her own. She is obviously trying to sell images and footage to the nationals. I think it was concluded yesterday she is not official or acting for MSM.

 

[TheBorez]

I totally understand there would be a LE presence at the home.. but the scale of it leads me to believe that something specific has been found there, could be 'trophies' (for want of a better phrase) from victim(s) or something in or around the home has been used to render the human remains unidentifiable. (I've seen missing persons and murder investigations but this one is just something different??)

 

[inkerman84]

Just to put the WC and SE connection queries to bed. There is absolutely NO way a pumped up, egotistical, minimally educated alpha male with his the profile would have mixed in her social circle. From a socio-economic perspective - its highly hughly unlikey.

 

[Aus94]

[Video]

Harry Acton (@HarryRActon) tweeted at 11:58 am on Thu, Mar 11, 2021:

More teams turning up in Deal today. https://t.co/Gy9313h2WJ

(https://twitter.com/HarryRActon/status/1369981122294251521?s=03)

I wonder what they have found in the house for them to have erected the fence.... I don’t remember that being there yesterday?

I am leaning towards there unfortunately being more victims, however if not, this is a huge and varied crime scene for the teams to be working through. IMO.

 

[laurenat]

Been reading here for a few hours.

First, the phone mugging scenario is too complex. The fact the phone went dead at exactly the time she disappeared can only mean he took it & switched it off/broke it or forced her to turn it off. Since it was fairly immediate, his intentions were absolutely dire from the start. I mean, it wasn't a situation where he at first thought this would be a minor encounter.

The separate indecent exposure count adds to the possibility that he was cruising around looking for women to expose himself to from within his car (guy masturbating in car) & he panicked because it seemed she was taking his picture or about to call someone, and it was a massive, self-protective escalation from there.

In terms of the timing vis a vis his shift ending at 8 (followed by changing out of uniform, clocking out stuff), I read I believe on this thread that there's a very popular snack stand in Clapham Common that cops and EMTs frequent (Honest Tom's Snack Stand). Maybe he went there to get some dinner and unwind and also do a little exposing himself in the vicinity. Maybe he saw her walking through the Commons & decided to intercept her a few minutes later.

The debate about how rare stranger abduction is, statistically, reminds me of, after major plane crashes, people will spam each other with statistics about how rare it is to die in a plane crash and "you have a higher chance of dyng in an auto accident on your way to the airport." Yet a bunch of people *did* just die in a plane crash. And the reason it's so terrifying is not because it's *common* but because it's random and entirely out of your control.

I think you're making some really good points - and I tend to side with you about the phone mugging idea. I come at it more from a 'how unlucky was this girl that not only was she mugged, but then attacked by a separate person'. But it also seems extraordinarily chancey of him to have seen that she's been mugged and used that as an opportunity to make contact. Of course, still possible, just seems less likely than other scenarios posited.

Although please correct me - aren't we just assuming the time of her kidnap/disappearance because of the time her phone goes dark? I don't believe we have a distinct time other than the phone, and the last time she was spotted on CCTV, at least not in the public domain, or do I have that wrong?

 

[MoreSleuceThanSleuth]

Does this look like his car to you, close to US Embassy, where he was working?

https://livetrains.co.uk/jamCams/archive/00001.04631/vid/1614806154.mp4

Not to me, looks like a Peugeot 206/307

 

[Sarahjo]

I have only just now saw the images from the scene - I know we cannot link twitter but search @ladyjaggar if you want to see.

Having followed the LE operations for several missing persons, I can say IMO that this is definitely an operation to recover more than 1 body. There is no doubt.

Getting Texas Killing Fields vibes here!

 

[ChocPud5243]

The huge amount of police presence which is still there today and now the additional diver teams , stations being set up and the garage due to be searched. Along with the questioning of the brother suggests the police have a fair amount of evidence to say there may be other bodies. I truly think we've only just scratched the surface on WC crimes.

I completely agree, I really think we could be looking at a serial killer/s , could the serving brother also be in on it? Who knows. I also saw someone mention he was learning to speak Ukranian, was he planning to flee the country after his spree? Everything seems very calculated but has just gone wrong when he got too cocky

Just on the last part of that, I wouldn't agree that this was his sole purpose for learning Ukrainian, he's been married to her for 15 years, his in-laws possibly don't speak English, they went to Ukraine yearly on holidays according to mother in law.. I also am married to a Ukrainian for 15 years whose family don't speak English.. We have also been visiting annually with our kids. I like to be a part of what goes on while we are there so really for me personally I felt I had no choice other than to learn the language. Its just MOO that anyone in the situation of different languages would make an effort to communicate if visiting/video calling something you do often.

ETA I am in no way defending WC, everyone is different obviously..you could be right, It could have been something he decided to do in case he ever needed an escape plan

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I was violently sexually assaulted and raped some years ago, I did not fight back, I knew I had no chance in a very remote area, I froze with fear and complied as I was so scared, I knew I did not stand a chance, I think if I didn't comply...actually, I dread to think what would have happened. So, I think it is very possible she complied with him out of fear or literally a million other reasons, shock just makes some people freeze in these situations. MOO. I'm one of the lucky ones. I was only a very young teen and not streetwise, the 2 men were 2 decades older. My experience, my own opinion. My heart goes out to anyone who has been through similar. ✌

It makes me sad to hear of your experience. I’m also incredibly proud of you. Your self confidence speaks loudly. You share your scars so that others may know it’s possible to heal. Thank you from my heart to yours.

 

[Biadee]

Hopefully they will have some identification by then (fingers crossed). But yes maybe they will go with a lesser charge like they did with Pawel Relowicz in the meantime.

Still pretty sure once charged they cant continue to question though (someone might need to correct me on that) so maybe they will hold out as long as possible.

I think you’re right about the interview post charge - there have been amendments but only in relation to terrorism.

I’m wondering if the body has to be formally identified prior to charge. You can get murder convictions without a body at all, for example in the April Jones case. Here if they have good circumstantial evidence it is Sarah, eg they tracked his phone to that location that night, possibly clothing on the body etc, they might not have to wait for ID. I think they’ll decide if tactically it’s advantageous to charge him yet - they won’t have any difficulty getting him remanded on a lesser charge if they think that’ll work best.

 

[elysian2]

The arrest on suspicion of kidnap - this implies a living victim, which implies that the murder did not take place on the street outside the car. However, the forensics team outside the flat appear to have been examining the pavement/kerb for blood spots (someone earlier identified specific wipes used for this purpose, I think? I can't find the post now though). So the presence or suspected presence of blood on the street implies that a degree of violence was used to put SE into the car, which would tend to suggest that this was a very quick blow to the head for example, rendering SE unconscious or incapacitated, to be then bundled into the car - rather than any ruse or conversation or involvement of WC's police identity. Or have I missed something regarding the forensic searches outside the flats?

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I wonder what they have found in the house for them to have erected the fence.... I don’t remember that being there yesterday?

I am leaning towards there unfortunately being more victims, however if not, this is a huge and varied crime scene for the teams to be working through. IMO.

I *think* there was previous mention of the fence. Our local on site sleuth will know better on that.

 

[TheBorez]

I really like this forum but honestly... Why don't people read the news? (It has been said so many times that he used a hire car and the cars in the driveway were personal ones. So why do people keep saying, 'does this look like his car? does this?')

 

[sriraaacha]

So I don't want people to jump on me here. It's not my intention to offend. But looking at another forum I am a member of, Tulse Hill is a well known area to pick up street sex workers. It is possible WC could have been in the area for that purpose.

Edit- I am NOT implying anything about the victim here. Only the suspect.

It wouldn't surprise me. Tulse Hill is one of the most dodgy looking areas I've been in London and that was in the daytime...

 

[Otto Nix]

Looking at the forest area on google maps (west of the buildings), if you flick between satelitte and map view, there appears to be a fairly large pond obscured by the trees in the forest area. Must be why the diving teams are arriving.

 

[Stella123]

I’m increasingly curious as to EC’s role. What’s the latest in her charge?

Initially I thought she would turn out to be fairly innocent but have agreed to say he wasn’t in, or had the car washed, without understanding the implications. But the longer she’s held, and the more I contemplate the exposure-gone-wrong theory, the more I think he might have come home and confessed a version of the truth to her. “I picked up a woman to drive her safely home and she attacked me and said she’d accuse me of rape, and I panicked” perhaps. “I’m going to kill myself because I’ve lost my career and they’ll never believe me when they find her body” ties in with an ambulance being seen at their house a few days before the arrests. Or even a car crash because he wasn’t paying attention.

From her career, she seems a smart and capable woman. Perhaps she is accustomed to fixing things when WC does something wrong. Others have suggested he’s controlling of her but maybe it’s the other way round, and he’s emasculated, and gets feelings of power by scaring other, similar looking women.

It could be that EC, with her lab background, has been the driving force behind trying to destroy the DNA. As others have said, she’s Ukrainian and can’t easily return, so would be very invested in her marriage, and may believe her husband’s version of events if she has no reason not to. If there is evidence or incriminating searches on her phone, they could both be facing long sentences.

I hope not for their children’s sake.

This was my thinking a few pages back when mentioning the Yorkshire Ripper - Peter Sutcliffe and wife. According to research into this, he was emasculated by his strong wife. However it is usually more than that - individual personality, life experiences etc. But also maybe something wrong in the marriage. The clinical psychologist above mentions the possible personality issues.

All supposition - we don't know but it does seem relevant that he had this 2 hour drive home after work each time, which presents opportunities if feeling rejected or aggrieved. I am thinking long distance lorry drivers away from home - opportunity. Not all long distance lorry drivers I might add - no wish to offend. JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I don't think so. She is not MSM. And the 'media company' is her own. She is obviously trying to sell images and footage to the nationals. I think it was concluded yesterday she is not official or acting for MSM.

Oops. So sorry. Thank you for the info. I will delete my post. This is difficult for me to sort and determine the validity of these non-USA stations. I’m in unfamiliar territory. Forgive any ignorance I may show. I’ve learned so much just since yesterday.

 

[cuecard]

Hi.

New member here. Again, to echo other posts, thanks to the modders for making this a really professional way to discuss/debate. It is much appreciated.

I don’t really have anything new to add in terms of sleuthing. I just can’t get my head around Sarah’s case for some reason. How can someone snatch someone else from a street and dispose of them like they are nothing? It’s heartbreaking.

Also, just basing this on a hunch, but I wouldn’t be surprised if WC turns out to be a serial. It has that kind of feel to it. Not necessarily a serial killer but a serial offender in terms of indecent exposure to women, maybe even attacks that the police are currently unaware of.

The fact the investigation at the site where the human remains were found is getting larger makes me think there are still more twists and turns to go with this case and the info that comes from that will likely be grim.

 

[Angleterre]

Exactly that scenario sounds like exactly what a serial killer would say. Sarah was way too savvy for that I’m sure.


I’m from the U.K. There’s a BIG difference in what I would do if approached by a pair of police in uniform in a police car during the day, and how I would react if I was confronted by a bulky guys in an unmarked car and no uniform at night. Anybody can claim to be police...

You are absolutely right and I honestly and genuinely applaud you for taking this stance and you are right to do so but unfortunately, so many don’t and only have to see a blue flashing light abs they believe it to be a police car yet the reality is that anyone can buy one of those lights and put it on top of their car .
A piece of Advice for others reading this - if a purported plain unmarked police car, which you believe to be so due to the presence of a blue light or not , tries to stop you, you DO NOT have to stop. Only a marked police car is who you are mandated to stop for and it’s solely your discretion if you wish to stop for an unmarked car. I have always, when wanting to stop a car whilst I’m in a CID plain car, shouted up for a uniform presence to stop the car on my behalf, so that they know it’s a genuine stop . Please , if in the UK, make yourself aware of this fact if you don’t already know.