GUILTY UK - Sebastian Kalinowski, 15, murdered

[Theomumx14]

 

[Dotta]

"The 'model pupil' whose smile hid an unimaginable pain: How 15-year-old Polish student Sebastian was fast learning English and making friends after less than a year at UK school... before his brutal murder at the hands of torturing mother and partner."​

Pupil Sebastian was learning English and making friends before murder

Sebastian Kalinowski (pictured), 15, was a 'model student' who was building relationships with his classmates and becoming more confident shortly before his brutal murder.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Whitehall 1212]

"The 'model pupil' whose smile hid an unimaginable pain: How 15-year-old Polish student Sebastian was fast learning English and making friends after less than a year at UK school... before his brutal murder at the hands of torturing mother and partner."​

Pupil Sebastian was learning English and making friends before murder

Sebastian Kalinowski (pictured), 15, was a 'model student' who was building relationships with his classmates and becoming more confident shortly before his brutal murder.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Utterly heatbreaking.....it's the mother and stepfather who are responsible BUT how many people, particularly those in positions of responsibility, missed the signs that all was not right?

Child abuse can often be subtle and well hidden behind shame, fear and misplaced loyalty.

Of all the good causes to support surely protecting the child must come in the same group as the planet and endangered animals. All three represent the future.

 

[Pinkestpanther]

Glad of the Guilty verdicts but so so sad that there was no-one to help poor Sebastian. Surprised that Sentencing won't take place until October...hoping that they will never be released. And that they suffer.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Glad of the Guilty verdicts but so so sad that there was no-one to help poor Sebastian. Surprised that Sentencing won't take place until October...hoping that they will never be released. And that they suffer.

They won't get a full life order without chance of parole.

They will receive life sentences with a minimum term to be served before they can apply for parole.

The starting point will be fifteen years and then with additions for aggravating factors and deductions for mitigating factors.

My view is that the aggravating factors are significant for the step-father with little or no mitigation. I would expect 30 - 35 years.

For the mother I am sure the defence will say she was acting under duress. I doubt if the Judge will accept this. The mother many not have been the primary physical abuser but I don't believe that she will receive much credit for that either.... they encouraged each other. Maybe 27 - 33 years.

I guess that sentencing has been delayed for psychiatric reports and for those to be taken into account, if there a findings of mental illness.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

They won't get a full life order without chance of parole.

They will receive life sentences with a minimum term to be served before they can apply for parole.

The starting point will be fifteen years and then with additions for aggravating factors and deductions for mitigating factors.

My view is that the aggravating factors are significant for the step-father with little or no mitigation. I would expect 30 - 35 years.

For the mother I am sure the defence will say she was acting under duress. I doubt if the Judge will accept this. The mother many not have been the primary physical abuser but I don't believe that she will receive much credit for that. Maybe 27 - 33 years.

MOO

I agree.
Those 2 reptiles remind me of Logan's murderers.

No pity for monsters!!!
Good riddance and throw away the keys!

When I read about their "Love letters" from the cells, I felt sick.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I agree.
Those 2 reptiles remind me of Logan's murderers.

No pity for monsters!!!
Good riddance and throw away the keys!

When I read about their "Love letters" from the cells, I felt sick.

Could it be a folie a deux....the psych report will give us a clue. My guess is just pure evil and utter selfishness.

 

[Dotta]

Could it be a folie a deux....

No.
She is a monstrous being without maternal instinct - as her 1st Polish husband said.
She left her baby son, left abroad and her parental right was removed by Family Court.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

No.
She is a monstrous being without maternal instinct - as her 1st Polish husband said.
She left her baby son, left abroad and her parental right was removed by Family Court.

It is a reality that society expectation of mothers is that they will love, protect and nurture their children. That expectation is more recently expected of fathers and quite right too.

To consider that a mother would not do the best for her children , particularly when they a young and vulnerable is something that most of us cannot understand.

Any parent who abandons their child or who seeks to cause them harm should not have unsupervised access to that child. The child should live day-to-day in an environment where they are safe.

I have my own personal experience of this so it resonates with me very loudly. The impact of childhood abuse, whatever form it takes, causes waves through the years and into the generations beyond.

 

[Dotta]

It is a reality that society expectation of mothers is that they will love, protect and nurture their children. That expectation is more recently expected of fathers and quite right too.

To consider that a mother would not do the best for her children , particularly when they a young and vulnerable is something that most of us cannot understand.

Any parent who abandons their child or who seeks to cause them harm should not have unsupervised access to that child. The child should live day-to-day in an environment where they are safe.

I have my own personal experience of this so it resonates with me very loudly. The impact of childhood abuse, whatever form it takes, causes waves through the years and into the generations beyond.

I also suspect substance abuse.
And his muscles don't look natural.
Steroid usage causes aggression.

His demand to call him "Sir" made me choke.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I also suspect substance abuse.
And his muscles don't look natural.
Steroid usage causes aggression.

His demand to call him "Sir" made me choke.

'Roid Rage' as we call it in the UK, concerning the effect of steroids on body building meatheads. It definitely seems to be likely in this case.

For the perfect example of a paranoid maniac experiencing 'Roid Rage' look no further than the case of Raoul Moat.

2010 Northumbria Police manhunt - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Dotta]

'Roid Rage' as we call it in the UK, concerning the effect of steroids on body building meatheads. It definitely seems to be likely in this case.

For the perfect example of a paranoid maniac experiencing 'Roid Rage' look no further than the case of Raoul Moat.

2010 Northumbria Police manhunt - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Meathead haha
BINGO

 

[beubeubeu]

Well, I wouldn't be so pessimistic.

I can't imagine any Police officer dismiss the cry of help coming from a minor.

In fact, in school where I work we often welcome Police officers/ psychologists who have meetings with students.
Kids are instructed where to find help.

They all know the phone number of Help Line - the help is waiting.

Nobody must put up with abusive treatment.

Permitting to be bullied and abused only emboldens the tyrants.

And kids nowadays know very well their rights.
Children's Rights.

After all, they are educated about them at school.

I haven't mentioned dismissal. They're (usually) not dismissing it, but scarily often they're not educated enough in dealing with narcissists to act in a way that both: ensures the kids safety and allows them to make sure what exactly they're dealing with.

Arent your school also instructing parents how to monitor their kids every online and offline activity to the level of high security prison?
Most parents will use that for good, to ensure their kids safety. Some use it the way Sebastian's did, and many, many others do.

What help line you're talking about?
That one which is randomly not working, and over the years it repeatedly happened that kids learned a number that suddenly turned out to be useless?
That one which is currently working in some crazy afternoon hours mon-fri?

And on what phone those kids in need are supposed to call for help?
Analog phones are almost totally out and abusive parents can just simply not allow their kids to have phone, or bug them. No public phones around either. No online 24/7 chat to ask for help not making any noise.

Schools are happily welcoming police officers and whoever who will explain smart things to kids. Same schools were for years, more concerned with the fact that kids can make some noise during class or play with their phone MORE, ten times more than with possibility that kid may need a phone to call their parents/help and were actively punishing kids for even carrying a phone. Some even going as far as confiscating all discovered but forbidden phones for weeks or "till the end of schoolyear".
That may be not much of a thing anymore, but surely same teachers and same headmasters who couple years ago were oblivious to a possibility that kids may need their phones for good reasons are still working and didn't get any wiser.

I see.
Well, where I live, abused kids are placed in Emergency Care and the case is forwarded to Family Court.
Family Judge decides about the future of the maltreated child and the eventual removal of parenting rights.

Well, I'm Polish too and this:

Sadly the reality is that Social Services have the final word.

Social Services need to have significant and evidenced concerns to remove a child from their home environment and place them in emergency foster care or local authority accommodation....places are very limited.

This means that children are returned home and as we know Social Services are so under resourced that they are unable to maintain a close enough eye in the future and act quickly, if required.

I cannot tell you the number of times I took children into police protection, which is never done lightly. I would contact Social Services and pass the child into their care only to find out on my next shift that they had been returned home.

This is the reality. Our statutory services are failing children at risk!

Sounds more adecquate as far as reality goes.

Unless we're talking poster obvious abuse with caretakers not at all interested in covering their actions, while there is plenty of evidence and whitnesses that they were indeed abusive.
Poster obvious abuse is rare and with all the news of sexual abuse, bullying and mistreatment happening in these emergency care's institutions IMO it's pretty ignorant and cruel to say that "Permitting to be bullied and abused only emboldens the tyrants."

Yea, it's right to a degree, but to the same degree it blames Sebastian for his fate and that's unacceptable. At least one kid is beaten to death in Poland every week, and I'm talking only widely covered cases - all of which have a trail of concerned adults who kinda noticed something and kinda tried to intervene but nothing significant came of it till kid ended up beaten up to the bloody pulp.
It's way better than it was, but abusers of today are troubled and neglected kids from decades ago and they still operate on what they learned then, as most of those who could notice things in time and take action. Adults are not educated enough and many not care enough.

There is nothing easier than to say that victims are responsible for their own fate. Right to a degree, justified to a degree - cause all people, children included need encouragement and some power words to believe that they have some power over their lives and that they can change it for the better.
Yet, a double sided sword it is. It also gives abusers more power and takes away a lof of guilt from those who are hesitant or not very engaged in trying to help an abused kid or trying to make sure if kid is safe in their home. Cause well, kids are well educated and know where and how to seek help, so if they didn't right away, they surely weren't going through anything seriously bad.

Kids living with abusers for their whole life may not know any better, they're kids and it's not theirs but society responsibility to develop tools and knowledge that will allow adults, all adults but obviously mostly the ones who are working with kids or having kids - how to be less fallible with spotting signs of abuse.

Also there is one thing that emboldens the abusers more than "permitting to be bullied and abused" - it's trying to stop it and failing, not being believed.
Guess what happens when kid complains about abuse but abusers talk their way out of it cause kid accidentally isn't cunning, clever and educated enough to outsmart them and get proofs while belonging to some sort of reputable family? They're getting proofs that kid is lying.

I'm yet to see or hear any discussion about preventing and stopping abuse, effectively protecting alleged victims and punishing abusers more strictly - any discussion in Polish that would not turn into discussing all the ways needed to protect those poor alleged rapists and alleged abusers from all this vile lying fake victims that want no more than to have this power (of being heard and taken seriously by default) over others.

 

[Dotta]

I haven't mentioned dismissal. They're (usually) not dismissing it, but scarily often they're not educated enough in dealing with narcissists to act in a way that both: ensures the kids safety and allows them to make sure what exactly they're dealing with.

Arent your school also instructing parents how to monitor their kids every online and offline activity to the level of high security prison?
Most parents will use that for good, to ensure their kids safety. Some use it the way Sebastian's did, and many, many others do.

What help line you're talking about?
That one which is randomly not working, and over the years it repeatedly happened that kids learned a number that suddenly turned out to be useless?
That one which is currently working in some crazy afternoon hours mon-fri?

And on what phone those kids in need are supposed to call for help?
Analog phones are almost totally out and abusive parents can just simply not allow their kids to have phone, or bug them. No public phones around either. No online 24/7 chat to ask for help not making any noise.

Schools are happily welcoming police officers and whoever who will explain smart things to kids. Same schools were for years, more concerned with the fact that kids can make some noise during class or play with their phone MORE, ten times more than with possibility that kid may need a phone to call their parents/help and were actively punishing kids for even carrying a phone. Some even going as far as confiscating all discovered but forbidden phones for weeks or "till the end of schoolyear".
That may be not much of a thing anymore, but surely same teachers and same headmasters who couple years ago were oblivious to a possibility that kids may need their phones for good reasons are still working and didn't get any wiser.

Well, I'm Polish too and this:

Sounds more adecquate as far as reality goes.

Unless we're talking poster obvious abuse with caretakers not at all interested in covering their actions, while there is plenty of evidence and whitnesses that they were indeed abusive.
Poster obvious abuse is rare and with all the news of sexual abuse, bullying and mistreatment happening in these emergency care's institutions IMO it's pretty ignorant and cruel to say that "Permitting to be bullied and abused only emboldens the tyrants."

Yea, it's right to a degree, but to the same degree it blames Sebastian for his fate and that's unacceptable. At least one kid is beaten to death in Poland every week, and I'm talking only widely covered cases - all of which have a trail of concerned adults who kinda noticed something and kinda tried to intervene but nothing significant came of it till kid ended up beaten up to the bloody pulp.
It's way better than it was, but abusers of today are troubled and neglected kids from decades ago and they still operate on what they learned then, as most of those who could notice things in time and take action. Adults are not educated enough and many not care enough.

There is nothing easier than to say that victims are responsible for their own fate. Right to a degree, justified to a degree - cause all people, children included need encouragement and some power words to believe that they have some power over their lives and that they can change it for the better.
Yet, a double sided sword it is. It also gives abusers more power and takes away a lof of guilt from those who are hesitant or not very engaged in trying to help an abused kid or trying to make sure if kid is safe in their home. Cause well, kids are well educated and know where and how to seek help, so if they didn't right away, they surely weren't going through anything seriously bad.

Kids living with abusers for their whole life may not know any better, they're kids and it's not theirs but society responsibility to develop tools and knowledge that will allow adults, all adults but obviously mostly the ones who are working with kids or having kids - how to be less fallible with spotting signs of abuse.

Also there is one thing that emboldens the abusers more than "permitting to be bullied and abused" - it's trying to stop it and failing, not being believed.
Guess what happens when kid complains about abuse but abusers talk their way out of it cause kid accidentally isn't cunning, clever and educated enough to outsmart them and get proofs while belonging to some sort of reputable family? They're getting proofs that kid is lying.

I'm yet to see or hear any discussion about preventing and stopping abuse, effectively protecting alleged victims and punishing abusers more strictly - any discussion in Polish that would not turn into discussing all the ways needed to protect those poor alleged rapists and alleged abusers from all this vile lying fake victims that want no more than to have this power (of being heard and taken seriously by default) over others.

Well, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

I respect yours.

As for me,
all professionals who deal with helping abused kids in my school district are doing their best.
It all depends on people and their goodwill, dedication and professionalism.

Seeking help is vital and students in my school know very well to whom turn to in times of crisis.
And are never turned down and refused help.

Not to mention teachers who are vigilant to any signs of abuse (especially PE teachers are mindful of spotting physical abuse during their lessons).

 

[CRRuby6]

Hello,
First of all i want to say thankyou for showing your care towards Sebastian. I am well was his friend. Seb was a really good guy, funny, caring. I used to help him in lessons and we used to play the piano together. I wish i had known the signs, i thought he was sad because he had moved to a different country but i did not know the abuse he had suffered. I wish i could of helped him, he slipped through the cracks and could of been saved if the right people paid attention. He was an amazing friend and i miss him everyday. I feel so bad that i saw no signs or i could not help my friend. I hope you are pain free up there now Sebastian, Spoczywaj w pokoju.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Hello,
First of all i want to say thankyou for showing your care towards Sebastian. I am well was his friend. Seb was a really good guy, funny, caring. I used to help him in lessons and we used to play the piano together. I wish i had known the signs, i thought he was sad because he had moved to a different country but i did not know the abuse he had suffered. I wish i could of helped him, he slipped through the cracks and could of been saved if the right people paid attention. He was an amazing friend and i miss him everyday. I feel so bad that i saw no signs or i could not help my friend. I hope you are pain free up there now Sebastian, Spoczywaj w pokoju.

Hello @CRRuby6,

Thank you for your post. I send you my heartfelt condolences for the loss of your dear friend, Sebastian, in such tragic circumstances.

You should not feel bad. The signs of abuse are extremely subtle and very hard to spot, if at all, even by the professionals.

Your feelings in such circumstances are very common. I am sure that Sebastian would not wish you to carry such a sense of burden.

Please talk to those you trust about how you are feeling, maybe your parents, a trusted adult, a teacher, your doctor etc.

It may be best for you to talk things through with a trained professional....a counsellor or psychologist....as they will understand how best to help you process your feelings and to get past this difficult time to live a full and happy life.

I send you love and prayers to get through this difficult time and for the future that awaits you.

This organisation may be able to help. Your telephone call is free and confidential.

There are also many other support lines available. Just search on the Internet.

Helpline | National Bereavement Partnership

Our helpline volunteers are the face of our service, the ones on our front line delivering our service.

www.nationalbereavementpartnership.org

 

[CRRuby6]

Hello @CRRuby6,

Thank you for your post. I send you my heartfelt condolences for the loss of your dear friend, Sebastian, in such tragic circumstances.

You should not feel bad. The signs of abuse are extremely subtle and very hard to spot, if at all, even by the professionals.

Your feelings in such circumstances are very common. I am sure that Sebastian would not wish you to carry such a sense of burden.

Please talk to those you trust about how you are feeling, maybe your parents, a trusted adult, a teacher, your doctor etc.

It may be best for you to talk things through with a trained professional....a counsellor or psychologist....as they will understand how best to help you process your feelings and to get past this difficult time to live a full and happy life.

I send you love and prayers to get through this difficult time and for the future that awaits you.

This organisation may be able to help. Your telephone call is free and confidential.

There are also many other support lines available. Just search on the Internet.

Helpline | National Bereavement Partnership

Our helpline volunteers are the face of our service, the ones on our front line delivering our service.

www.nationalbereavementpartnership.org

Thank you, I just want to thank you all for all your heartfelt messages, it’s good to know people care about him. I’m very grateful to each and every one of you for showing your compassion to Sebastian. It means a lot

 

[VioletLilac]

Apparently the sentencing remarks are going to be filmed today following a change in the law Cameras to film sentencing of couple who murdered teenager | ITV News

 

[VioletLilac]

They got life with a minimum of 39 years Mother and partner jailed for torturing teenage son to death | ITV News

 

[Ched]

Agnieszka Kalinowska and her partner Andrzej Latoszewski have both been jailed at Leeds Crown Court for life with a minimum term of 39 years for the murder of her 15-year-old son Sebastian Kalinowski

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