GUILTY Uk - Sophie Lionnet, 21, Body Found Burned, Wandsworth, London, 20 Sep 2017 *arrests*

[Tortoise]

Where`s my chocolate sprinkles :tantrum:

:turkey::sundae::cupcake:

It's all they had in the WS shop

So it seems like her charm wore off pretty quickly!

 

[Tortoise]

Any idea on timescales, is prosecutor starting tomorrow?

I imagine OM's barrister has done half the work for him.

 

[michelle230]

Has anyone asked SK if she feared SL so much and was sure she was abusing her children, etc.....why didn't she just send her back to France? Or call the police? LOL! Everything SK says/does according to her own "defense" makes no sense.

Thank you Michelle for all the updates!

Her first answer: (1) : I`m not letting you go home until you have returned my jewellery that you stole.
Her updated answer: (2): I`m not letting you go home until you show us the house you took G to/give us the phone/tell us the truth.

My answer: I`m not letting you go home because I`m a mad, crazy, obsessive, jealous, bully and I need a victim to release all my viciousness and inner rage on to.

 

[michelle230]

Any idea on timescales, is prosecutor starting tomorrow?

I imagine OM's barrister has done half the work for him.

Think he probably will start tomorrow but left at 3.30 today so didn`t hear the timetable for tomorrow. If they want the jury out next Wednesday, then they`ll have to get a move on.
Re OM`s barrister (I keep calling him the prosecutor - hard to tell the difference sometimes lol), yes, likewise with Peart, but I guess the prosecutor will come at a totally different angle (though with obvious overlaps).

 

[michelle230]

P.S. Thanks for the goodies, Tortoise. (Shouldn`t have eaten the cake in one bite though :sick: )

 

[Tortoise]

BIB

She has been deemed criminally responsible (if that`s the correct terminology).

She`s smart enough to have all the answers worked out and to give it her best shot. Having a personality disorder does not classify you as being insane. They come under a completely different category to schizophrenia and psychosis.

That is correct and also she would have to admit she had killed Sophie to claim diminished responsibility.

 

[Tortoise]

No way will the jury be out by Wednesday. I don't imagine the judge will even have started his summing up by Friday. And I've just remembered Monday is a bank holiday. I think. It is isn't it?

 

[sar2them1984]

BIB

She has been deemed criminally responsible (if that`s the correct terminology).

She`s smart enough to have all the answers worked out and to give it her best shot. Having a personality disorder does not classify you as being insane. They come under a completely different category to schizophrenia and psychosis.

No, of course you are right although i do think there is more than BPD involved here from a MH point of view.

Looking at the test for diminished responsibility i believe she matches all of the criteria bar one...pre planning.
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-proceedings/diminished-responsibility-criminal-law/

Don't misunderstand me, i am not trying to excuse or down play her crimes or the severity of them but when you take into account the storytelling, the lies, inability to take blame for anything but everyone was out to get her mentality, the genuine believing of her fabrications, the historic mental health episodes and hospitalisation, the fact she is currently in a psychiatric establishment, the frequent loss of self control, the fasehoods regarding her life, her career, her friends, plus the fact she involved others (including her kids) in her somewhat bizarre beliefs....i just cannot believe that she cannot NOT be deemed as insane or not of sound mind.

Definition of insane:

in a state of mind which prevents normal perception, behaviour, or social interaction

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

If you are lying so much to not get caught, you clearly know right from wrong.

 

[sar2them1984]

Is she specifically lying not to get caught though? Lying in general seems to be a way of life for her

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[Tortoise]

I think a distinction needs to be made between her fantasies and her actions. I have not seen anything that suggests she was not fully aware of her actions. In other words she could believe the plot against them and do nothing to harm Sophie.

As far as I know, she had ability to understand the danger of keeping a person held down under water and to see Sophie's inability to defend herself. If she didn't know it was dangerous she wouldn't have been doing it, because there was an aim to putting Sophie in the bath with the water.

 

[Tortoise]

P.S. What a rubbish article headline in the Daily Mail about them having sex. Just because a delusional nutter says it (purely to discredit OM as she does at every turn), does not make it true. I doubt they`ve had sex for years! (They have very weird sleeping arrangements).

Yes it bugs me as well. They somehow ignore the point that everything she says is a lie. Sex sells papers. I hate misleading headlines and crap journalism.

 

[Tortoise]

rsbm

When asked why she didn`t take the tapes to the police as she now had all the evidence, she replied that she needed to get the house address and the phone first because she "needed to do the police`s job", as they wouldn`t do anything themselves about it.

I think she might have sealed her own fate with this admission.

Looking back to my post (#365) which sets out quoted testimony and a timeline, OM's first statement where he admitted what happened said *they* were desperate for Sophie to give them her phone. SK's version when giving evidence was that OM was waterboarding Sophie because *he* wanted the phone. Now she has admitted under cross-examination that *she* needed to get the phone.

It shows her motive and involvement. Even if she had merely walked away before Sophie died, she has admitted she was party to the intention of getting the phone. Even if it is all a lie, because Michelle mentioned something about it being behind the washing machine, which means SK knew where the phone was.

 

[Tortoise]

This looks like even more awareness to me (also confirmation that Mr Pownall finished his x-exam yesterday):

Ms Kouider admitted she was trying to trick Ms Lionnet into a confession.

Concluding his questioning, Mr Pownall...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43986880

 

[Legally Bland]

I remember something about heroin, but I thought that was something to do with MW / how he [didn't] drugged SK's family. Even google translate can't disguise the sardonic nature of this article.
_______________

This 35-year-old mother had hired Sophie Lionnet in January 2016 to look after her children. But the girl, who moved from Troyes to live with the couple in London, "was not doing his [her] job". "She was resting all the time and I had to do everything. I would eat, clean the children's room, wash my clothes, "she assures, handkerchief in hand, assisted by a translator. When she pointed it out, her employee always had a good excuse. "Sophie lied as she breathed! She says. "She was always there with her big smile, trying to convince you. "


In her mouth, Sophie Lionnet is not the girl "nice, innocent", "joyful and charming" that evoke yet all those who have rubbed shoulders. His [her] young employee, assured without laughing Sabrina Kouider, even took heroin and morphine. She is certain because she would have taken urine for analysis. "The tests do not lie," she dares, without producing the famous documents. "For you, everything is a lie," she says indignantly to Master Pownhall, who tries to minimize the involvement of his client. She adds that Sophie always had the choice to leave but that she preferred to stay with them.

https://www.20minutes.fr/faits_dive...ntait-comme-respirait-affirme-sabrina-kouider

 

[Legally Bland]

The defendant became agitated when she told jurors: “I did not imprison Sophie, okay?

“I was the prisoner, sitting in the house with Sophie walking around with Mark Walton.”

Mr Horwell asserted: “You were treating her like a slave.”

Kouider replied: “No she was treating us like a slave. It was the opposite. I was cooking, washing her sometimes, buying food. She was living like a princess in my house.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...murder-accused-tells-court.html#ixzz5EXxjy0Nf


ETA: The next few articles are pretty much identical to this one.

 

[Legally Bland]

Prosecutor Richard Horwell QC challenged Kouider’s insistence that Miss Lionnet could have gone home to Paris at any time up until her death in September last year.

The defendant, who owed £20,000 in rent arrears, claimed she paid the nanny £50 a week, even though Miss Lionnet did not have the money to pay for her fare.

In a recorded telephone call last August, Miss Lionnet’s mother Catherine Devallonne pleaded for her to return, saying: “I’m extremely disturbed because I have health issues. You have to come. Pick up your stuff and come back home.”

But Kouider blocked the move and told the mother she could not afford to pay for the ticket until she got paid the next week.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/na...ss_in_my_house____murder_accused_tells_court/

 

[Legally Bland]

In a final call on August 8, Kouider allegedly said she wanted to “keep Sophie” until she had told her where she had been despite Mrs Devallonne begging her.


Mrs Devallonne recalled her daughter was crying on the phone and seem “a bit disoriented”, the court heard.


Mr Horwell said: “Do you know what is so tragic about this conversation? It is the very last conversation she had with her daughter.”

http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/national...ss_in_my_house____murder_accused_tells_court/

 

[Legally Bland]

The defendants began to tape record interrogations of Miss Lionnet about Mr Walton after the final call with her mother.


Mr Horwell said their behaviour on tape was “pretty awful” and suggested they were even worse when the device was switched off.


He said: “Did you think it was appropriate to treat a 21-year-old woman who was not particularly worldly-wise in this way?”


Kouider replied: “She did want to be interrogated otherwise she would not be there.”


Suggesting a hypothetical conversation, Mr Horwell said: “‘Can Medouni and I abuse you again, call you worse than a murderer, accuse you of being like the French who sold the Jews to the Nazis, do you mind if we do it all over again?’ And she said yes? Is that how it went?”

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/nat...ss_in_my_house____murder_accused_tells_court/

 

[Legally Bland]

Kouider said Miss Lionnet had “apologised” and she had accepted.


She went on: “I wanted her to be alive and make Mark (Walton) pay for what he did to all of us.”


The accused told jurors she wanted to report the wealthy music mogul to police and sue him, but added: “I don’t want his dirty money.”


She claimed her nanny would be alive today if police had taken her seriously.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/nati...ss_in_my_house____murder_accused_tells_court/