GUILTY Uk - Sophie Lionnet, 21, Body Found Burned, Wandsworth, London, 20 Sep 2017 *arrests*

[michelle230]

He`s certainly got a problem - one on hand he has to make out that the whole thing was crazy (as of course it flippin sounds!). However, on the other hand, he`s got to make out he believed her

 

[Tortoise]

About her going to the US to have her second baby, I have a couple of thoughts on this. 1. maybe to avoid medical checkups and going back to Coombe Wood 2. My own relative who has BPD became very much worse when she had a baby. She could not look after him for about two years, not even to hold him, she also grabbed knives to self-harm and locked herself in the bathroom with pills, climbed out of the window to escape etc, and was totally out of control. I don't know if pregnancy hormones exacerbate the PD, if that is indeed what SK has.

 

[Nabrisa]

Hi Michelle,

Yes, I'm guessing lots of local interest how does she respond when he talks of loving her? I wonder if they are enemies or if there is still feelings (certainly is on his side). I'm assuming this will be part of his defence: although she exhibited crazy (and often violent/aggressive behaviour) he loved her and therefore was not willing to 'give up on her'. Love is blind as they say! This goes back to tortoise's brilliant analysis of the 'triad of personalities' theory.

Thank you!
X

 

[michelle230]

Hi Michelle,

Yes, I'm guessing lots of local interest how does she respond when he talks of loving her? I wonder if they are enemies or if there is still feelings (certainly is on his side).

Thank you!
X

Hi N,
Just on my way in now.
She only responds to unpleasant truths. Other than that she just looks at him. She's definitely unbalanced though (understatement!)

 

[mrazda71]

Good grief!

Thanks so much Michelle for these updates, so grateful to hear more than the Dail Fail drivel and, just a bit envious that you get to see it all first hand!

I'm a 4 hour train journey away from London (I couldnt drive there!) but so tempted to join you!

 

[sar2them1984]

The mind boggles with this trial. It really is a case of 2 very messed up people meeting and creating a very toxic relationship.

The whole Duncan aspect is baffling. What are they trying to achieve with this accusation. Wonder if Duncan was pre warned about this

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[Tortoise]

His manslaughter plea will be interesting during cross-examination.

I wonder how that works with him 'being asleep'.

Did anyone see Sophie alive after the witness heard her being held under the water?

 

[Tortoise]

It sounds like this reporter was in the courtroom yesterday, lots of detail

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201804161063623081-french-banker-murder-london/

 

[Tortoise]

More to read at link

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/national/16165379.___Crazy____murder_accused_attacked_nanny_with_electrical_cable__court_told/

[FONT=&amp]Amid suspicion he was “hacking” the family, Medouni went to PC World and bought two cheap mobile phones and a security camera.

[...]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Medouni described two incidents on September 13 last year when Miss Lionnet was badly hurt.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]He heard “screaming” from the kitchen and allegedly found Kouider hitting Miss Lionnet with an electrical cable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]He said: “I stopped her straight away and I helped Sophie get up and put her in the bed.

[...]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]When he got home, he found Kouider kneeling beside Miss Lionnet in the bath.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The nanny was wearing only her underwear and had “big bruises” on her arms and legs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]He said: “Sabrina was next to her and she was crying, emotional.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]“I was shocked when I saw the bruises. I think about that – this is where I really should have done something.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Medouni said Miss Lionnet was “heavily injured” but he did not call a doctor because he did not want social workers to get involved.[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

I hope the jury is not buying his story because I am not.

 

[Tortoise]

In the next few days, Miss Lionnet said she was “okay” but the defendant said it was not true.

Orlando Pownall QC, defending, suggested Miss Lionnet may have suffered her broken ribs and breast bone on that occasion.

After that, the atmosphere in the house was “strange”, the defendant said.

Asked why he did not put Miss Lionnet on a train or bus or go to the police, he said: “The first day she could not walk properly.”


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...lectrical-cable-court-told.html#ixzz5Cwmbn88m

 

[Tortoise]

'She couldn't walk properly.. so I didn't go to the police.'

There is no reason in that.

Why are these murdering bullies always cowards in court?

 

[janeh]

Thanks again Michelle for the court updates. The more I hear about this couple, the more unbelievable it is that this happened. The treatment of Sophie amounts to sheer cruelty and I don't know why she didn't get help. I suppose that being young and impressionable and not knowing our laws in this country meant that she believed what this couple told her with regards to her supposed guilt. I feel so sorry for her and hope that this awful couple get the punishment that they deserve.

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[Paleface]

Hi Michelle,
We met today at court. What surprised me - I don't know why, given what we already know about SK - was the disrespectful way she'd treated him as OM outlined his long-standing relationship with Sabrina. He told how she'd got pregnant to another man soon after they'd met when she was 19 but was led to believe it was OM's child (this is Kenzi btw). He chose to believe her and used to do the night feeds etc and then found it wasn't his child. He decided to stay and bring up the child as his own anyway but (and this is where it all got confusing) another fella appeared on the scene. His counsel showed him a notebook with a kind of love note/letter written in French to SK in it, saying that she held the key to his heart and he just wanted to spend his life with Kenzi and her. OM was asked if it was his handwriting. He hesitated and said 'well there are quite a few mistakes'. When pushed, he said 'this must be Antony'. It became obvious that not only was SK unfaithful with the first guy (and got pregnant) but once OM had re-committed to her she then left him again to have a relationship with this guy Antony. We weren't told if he was French or whatever (OM commented on mistakes in the text) but this was obviously before she went off once again to have a kid with Mark Walton, after which - once more - she went back to the faithful puppy OM. Terrible I know (and this is obviously the plan for his defence), But I really did start to feel sorry for him. I heard all the audio tapes and this new information confirmed that he really is a sad little man with low self esteem, no friends and a fatal attraction to a nutter who led him down a path that he was ill-equipped to deal with..... I think I just wrote his counsel's closing argument. D'oh!

 

[michelle230]

Hi Michelle,
We met today at court. What surprised me - I don't know why, given what we already know about SK - was the disrespectful way she'd treated him as OM outlined his long-standing relationship with Sabrina. He told how she'd got pregnant to another man soon after they'd met when she was 19 but was led to believe it was OM's child (this is Kenzi btw). He chose to believe her and used to do the night feeds etc and then found it wasn't his child. He decided to stay and bring up the child as his own anyway but (and this is where it all got confusing) another fella appeared on the scene. His counsel showed him a notebook with a kind of love note/letter written in French to SK in it, saying that she held the key to his heart and he just wanted to spend his life with Kenzi and her. OM was asked if it was his handwriting. He hesitated and said 'well there are quite a few mistakes'. When pushed, he said 'this must be Antony'. It became obvious that not only was SK unfaithful with the first guy (and got pregnant) but once OM had re-committed to her she then left him again to have a relationship with this guy Antony. We weren't told if he was French or whatever (OM commented on mistakes in the text) but this was obviously before she went off once again to have a kid with Mark Walton, after which - once more - she went back to the faithful puppy OM. Terrible I know (and this is obviously the plan for his defence), But I really did start to feel sorry for him. I heard all the audio tapes and this new information confirmed that he really is a sad little man with low self esteem, no friends and a fatal attraction to a nutter who led him down a path that he was ill-equipped to deal with..... I think I just wrote his counsel's closing argument. D'oh!

Paleface - your post made me laugh - to my shame I have had similar thoughts. In fact, if I`m not careful I`m in danger of becoming one of these crazy women who faithfully visits every week in prison (and of course falls in love with :loveyou a mass murderer, tell the world he`s a lovely - but misunderstood man - has a prison wedding complete with white dress and wedding cake and lives unhappily ever after. Yikes!
Joking aside, I get exactly what you are saying. He presents as a placid, quiet, devoted man. I do not doubt that much of what he says is true in relation to his love, appeasement and protection of SK. However, because of his devotion and his nature, he was no match for her and I do believe, after spending so many years with her, he, himself became warped and no longer knew what "normal" was. He became part of her never ending drama and false thinking - maybe almost a clone of her.
I have to literally keep reminding myself of his actions, rather than his words and that keeps me in check. At the end of the day, as adults, we all have to take responsibility for our behaviour.
Forget SK having any feelings of gratitude towards him. She is incapable. She is too fragmented, too empty to connect in a meaningful way to another human being. For someone like her, no amount of "feeding" will ever be enough.
I wonder..just a theory...* if * she had been sexually abused in the past (it`s possible), and nobody cared/believed her, could she be trying to get that sympathy, attention, nurturing, recognition etc through claiming that her child had suffered that experience? (A sort of munchausen by proxy?)
OM`s anger and brutality towards Sophie - could that be displacement of his own feelings of rage and impotence he felt from his treatment by SK that he seemed helpless to defend against. Like a school bully who is acting out his own experiences of being bullied by his parents?

Just my ramblings...

 

[michelle230]

I don't know why this is being brought up during OM's evidence.

I do suspect that they are preempting a line of attack by the prosecution that it was OM who used a crowbar on the door. How would OM know Duncan paid in cash (that by itself looks like a fabricated detail), or that he wore a hat?

I think he's lying and he would and did do anything SK told him to, being with a pretty woman gave him status and he was like a besotted puppy dog.

I think he's telling the truth about her behaviour. I am not trusting anything else he says about his own involvement in Sophie's mistreatment and death.

Hi Tortoise,
Thanks for your updates x

The link you posted - there is a young French man who I think is reporting. He is not officially a reporter as he sits in the public gallery (maybe foreign reporters not allowed?) But he is the one whose link you posted.

Also, before OM`s evidence today, the Judge discussed the evidence re Duncan from yesterday and was confused as to the relevance. It was decided that there was no relevance so it`s not being taken further (that`s my understanding).

Your relation with Borderline - wow - so many similarities.

 

[michelle230]

Good grief!

Thanks so much Michelle for these updates, so grateful to hear more than the Dail Fail drivel and, just a bit envious that you get to see it all first hand!

I'm a 4 hour train journey away from London (I couldnt drive there!) but so tempted to join you!

C`mon Mrazda. You know you want to

 

[michelle230]

By the way, yesterday when OM was asked if he believed the whole story about MW, he said "No....not at first. But then I realised that email accounts * were * being hacked because emails kept disappearing so then I believed it"
Judge: Did you see them disappearing literally in front of your eyes as you were looking at them?"
OM: Well..no...not when I was looking at them, but SK told me that that`s what was happening"
:waitasec:

 

[michelle230]

By the way, although I was not present when MW gave his evidence, (unsurprisingly) I have been told by a few people that he came across as being very weak!
MW...here`s a thought to make you shudder....it could have been you in the stand right now!

 

[Elainera]

By the way, yesterday when OM was asked if he believed the whole story about MW, he said "No....not at first. But then I realised that email accounts * were * being hacked because emails kept disappearing so then I believed it"
Judge: Did you see them disappearing literally in front of your eyes as you were looking at them?"
OM: Well..no...not when I was looking at them, but SK told me that that`s what was happening"
:waitasec:

Lol sometimes I feel a bit sorry for him. Being away from SK's toxic influence and nonsense for some months now he probably sees things a *little bit* clearer now. Rude awakening I'd say.