UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #4

[Cluesleuth]

Devere, Doyle, Inchusta and Riglin saw SLP outside 37 Shorrolds Road. Doyle saw the champagne bottle with ribbons. Three of them saw Mr Kipper. Kipper is described with common characteristics i.e smartly dressed. Devere saw SLP alone, waiting for Mr Kipper with the keys. All the preceding is in the AS book.

This is evidence which corroborates, not conflicts i.e makes it as near to certain as you're likely to get.

AS book page 75
Doyle could not be specific about the time he saw the female and male outside 37SR, only that it was sometime between 12.00 and 4.00pm

Thats a big time window
JMO

 

[Cluesleuth]

Who is Inchusta?

JI he was a Spainish history teacher visiting London - AS book page 75

 

[WestLondoner]

Devere, Doyle, Inchusta and Riglin saw SLP outside 37 Shorrolds Road. Doyle saw the champagne bottle with ribbons. Three of them saw Mr Kipper. Kipper is described with common characteristics i.e smartly dressed. Devere saw SLP alone, waiting for Mr Kipper with the keys. All the preceding is in the AS book.

This is evidence which corroborates, not conflicts i.e makes it as near to certain as you're likely to get.

HR gave two completely different accounts of what he saw, one where he said he saw SJL being bundled into a vehicle and another where he recanted and said that had not happened. He also gave two different descriptions of the man he saw, in one of which he was 25 to 30; later he IDed DR as Mr Kipper, who's 14 years older than the upper edge of the previous age HR said. He also did not identify SJL there. He just said he saw the back of a blonde woman's head.

One of the other witnesses described the man as scruffy and with a broken nose. This is obviously not the same man.

JMO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

HR gave two completely different accounts of what he saw, one where he said he saw SJL being bundled into a vehicle and another where he recanted and said that had not happened. He also gave two different descriptions of the man he saw, in one of which he was 25 to 30; later he IDed DR as Mr Kipper, who's 14 years older than the upper edge of the previous age HR said. He also did not identify SJL there. He just said he saw the back of a blonde woman's head.

One of the other witnesses described the man as scruffy and with a broken nose. This is obviously not the same man.

JMO

Description of Kipper in Shorrolds Road

HR - Male, 25-30 years, 5'08", clean shaven, thick combed-back dark hair AND looked prosperous in a smart dark suit (Source: AS p.8, p.27 - first description to MG)

Doyle - Male, 25-30 years, dark swept-back hair AND wearing an 'immaculate and expensive' charcoal grey suit.

'His nose looked as though it might have been broken at some time, Doyle thought. Perhaps he was an ex-serviceman or former public schoolboy who had been injured playing rugby, he suggested, or, alternatively, a very well dressed East End villain'. (Source: AS p.75)

JI - Male, 26-32 years, tall, good looking, slender - and so well dressed he could have been a male fashion model. JI thought the man's hair was longer and his face was thinner than in the Putney artists impression. JI talks of the smiling young woman meeting the man outside the house in Shorrolds Road. JI described Susannah. Source: AS p.75

THEREFORE

There is no mention of the man being 'scruffy' or a having a 'broken nose' at the time (black eyes, bleeding nose etc).....more misshapen, possibly from a previous injury.

Reviewing JC's interview's with DCI Ault, it looks at though JC's nose may be misshapen, although the lighting is harsh. JC was subjected to a number of assaults whilst serving his first sentence at various prisons - HMP Bristol, HMP Portland and HMP Wormwood Scrubs. It may be that is nose was broken during this time.

Moment Suzy Lamplugh suspect asked 'what have you done with her body'

SUZY Lamplugh murder suspect John Cannan was asked point blank “what have you done with her body” in bombshell police interview tapes. But the arrogant sex killer, behind bars for rape and murder o…

www.thesun.co.uk

These descriptions have provenance. All three witnesses saw the the similar described man with a young woman, outside 37 Shorrolds Road; HR at around 13:00 and Doyle sometime between 12:00 - 16:00. AS is a renowned journalist who worked with the close co-operation of the investigation team.

 

[Cherwell]

'His nose looked as though it might have been broken at some time, Doyle thought. Perhaps he was an ex-serviceman or former public schoolboy who had been injured playing rugby, he suggested, or, alternatively, a very well dressed East End villain'. (Source: AS p.75)


There is no mention of the man being 'scruffy' or a having a 'broken nose' at the time (black eyes/bleeding).....more misshapen, possibly from a previous injury.

I don't remember reading anything suggesting a recently injured broken nose, certainly not bleeding or bruising. Describing someone as having a broken nose usually suggests a past injury.

Wasn't there another witness with a surname beginning with D? Name escapes me atm. Was he the one that described a scruffy looking man?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I don't remember reading anything suggesting a recently injured broken nose, certainly not bleeding or bruising. Describing someone as having a broken nose usually suggests a past injury.

Wasn't there another witness with a surname beginning with D? Name escapes me atm. Was he the one that described a scruffy looking man?

I was just clarifying that the description from Doyle was of a nose that looked as though it might have been broken at some time.

Noel Devere, unemployed barman. Only the subjects seen by the witnesses are described, not the witnesses themselves

 

[Cherwell]

I was just clarifying that the description from Doyle was of a nose that looked as though it might have been broken at some time.

Noel Devere, unemployed barman. Only the subjects seen by the witnesses are described, not the witnesses themselves

That's the fellow. What did he say he saw?

Yes, I know we don't have physical descriptions of the witnesses - why would we?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

That's the fellow. What did he say he saw?

Yes, I know we don't have physical descriptions of the witnesses - why would we?

I was chuckling at the likely reaction from looking a witness up and down and then describing them in nauseating detail on the back of the statement form

Devere

'....as he walked into Shorrolds Road, he glanced at his watch and saw it was 12:50. Then he came to the house with a Sturgis 'For Sale' sign outside, which he noticed because he particularly liked the house. He saw a young woman clutching a set of keys in her right hand, standing on her own in the gateway of number 37 and looking outwards towards the street. He did not take much notice of her because he was in a hurry, but having seen all the publicity about the case he was now in little doubt that the woman was Susannah Lamplugh'. Source AS: p.74

 

[NorthParade]

Click the link for the correct information

UK - UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #4

Hmm...i remember now. He blocked me on twitter after I enquired about the PoW Which is ironic as that’s his theory.

www.websleuths.com

Thanks Whitehall. That figures. I wasn’t willing to take “noted criminologist CBD says” as valid evidence and it seems I was right not to. I’ve not read any of his books (excepting Google Books snippet when I’ve been searching for detail, eg CV’s real name) but he strikes me as a sensationalist. 40 true crime books do not, usually, a serious writer make. (I might make an exception for Wensley Clarkson.)

 

[Konstantin]

Doyle - Male, 25-30 years, dark swept-back hair AND wearing an 'immaculate and expensive' charcoal grey suit.

Am I correct in thinking that this part of Fulham was not particularly posh at the time? It had not been gentrified? So if so you would expect this striking posh looking bloke to have stood out, as being a bit too posh and well dressed for the area? The witnesses do seem to recall his suit and hair particularly.

On another note I am still creeped out by the footage of JC in his dating service video as shown on the CH5 documentary. Ugh. There is something just off about him.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Thanks Whitehall. That figures. I wasn’t willing to take “noted criminologist CBD says” as valid evidence and it seems I was right not to. I’ve not read any of his books (excepting Google Books snippet when I’ve been searching for detail, eg CV’s real name) but he strikes me as a sensationalist. 40 true crime books do not, usually, a serious writer make. (I might make an exception for Wensley Clarkson.)

CBD repeats himself A LOT! I guess he's written a few books and he copy and pastes that info into the other books.

 

[EddietheEagle]

Thanks Whitehall. That figures. I wasn’t willing to take “noted criminologist CBD says” as valid evidence and it seems I was right not to. I’ve not read any of his books (excepting Google Books snippet when I’ve been searching for detail, eg CV’s real name) but he strikes me as a sensationalist. 40 true crime books do not, usually, a serious writer make. (I might make an exception for Wensley Clarkson.)

CB-D has unmasked Mr Kipper anyway. He says it was Michael Sams!

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

I've removed my earlier Admin Note and any responses to it. It caused a kerfuffle and it was due to a misunderstanding on my part, and for that I most sincerely apologize.

Our Verified member has previously advised that they have no involvement in this case and would not be posting here if they had. They have provided information that is available in the public domain and other times have advised when it is their opinion based on information that is publicly available.

Websleuths verification process is to verify the identity of an individual. It is up to members to decide how much weight to assign to information provided by a Verified member. Regardless, challenging or bickering and arguing with a Verified member is not allowed. Members may respectfully ask questions of a Verified member and it is up to them whether they wish to respond or not.

 

[asyousay]

I have just started to watch the C5 documentary and it suddenly struck me how quickly the police got on board.

Maybe it’s America I am thinking of but I thought most adults had to be missing 24 hours before they will do anything.

They seemed to be looking for her within hours which makes it that much frustrating that the police were so quick to react but it remains unsolved.


MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I have just started to watch the C5 documentary and it suddenly struck me how quickly the police got on board.

Maybe it’s America I am thinking of but I thought most adults had to be missing 24 hours before they will do anything.

They seemed to be looking for her within hours which makes it that much frustrating that so many clues must of been missed.


MOO

Yes it was an unusually rapid response and IMO unprecedented, even to this day. In that aspect, I suspect because they had a narrative and forecefully ran with it, at what may well be the exclusion of all other lines of enquiry.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

My guess would be a shop to buy a sandwich (it was lunchtime). But given the publicity I would have thought that would have been remembered and reported as a last sighting. Still possible though.

Google Maps seems to show there is a narrow road Rostrevor Mews which runs behind where the Crocodile Tears restaurant was. If it is correct that Suzy Lamplugh turned right out of the office that lunchtime, could it be the case that she was heading to this road in the belief that her car was parked there. As it's seeming narrowness would indicate that it doesn't appear to be a main road, could this potentially be a place where someone could commit an abduction and not be seen doing so? Does anyone on this thread know the area well enough to make a sound judgement about this?

 

[EddietheEagle]

The Dawes Rd, Fulham Rd, Fulham Palace Rd triangle wasn't gentrified at all at that point. I think the pair of them would have stood out. Doyle and Devere would have noticed SLP because she was attractive, hence their postitive identification and the deeper observation of her having hair that was blonder than the poster. They could have taken a crafty look when walking by. And JC? Yes, because of his sharp suit and looks perhaps. Maybe they noticed him because he was the one who'd got the girl!

 

[EddietheEagle]

Google Maps seems to show there is a narrow road Rostrevor Mews which runs behind where the Crocodile Tears restaurant was. If it is correct that Suzy Lamplugh turned right out of the office that lunchtime, could it be the case that she was heading to this road in the belief that her car was parked there. As it's seeming narrowness would indicate that it doesn't appear to be a main road, could this potentially be a place where someone could commit an abduction and not be seen doing so? Does anyone on this thread know the area well enough to make a sound judgement about this?

We had this debate earlier. Turning right was only intended figuratively in that, by DV's account, she was supposedly heading for Putney and the pub there. He was trying to get the idea across that she proceeded in a completely different direction to the address in her diary where she purported to go i.e the appointment was fictitious.

In actual fact, wherever she was going, she would have turned left leaving Sturgis and crossed the road, going to where her car was parked on the other side in the next street down, Whittingstall Rd. Her colleague had left it there.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Yes it was an unusually rapid response and IMO unprecedented, even to this day.

Such kidnaps are thankfully rare:

1. Kidnaps for ransom, tiger kidnaps and gang kidnaps for the purpose of prolonged torture and often murder are investigated covertly with news blackouts.

2. Missing persons are now risk assessed immediately. If they are deemed to be high risk then there is a vast range of intelligence sources that can be used to excellent effect. Unfortunately, these were not available when SJL disappeared, hence the need for high profile appeals to the public, within a very short time.

Where the missing person is despondent, ill or injured then many police forces will rapidly deploy lowland and/or mountain rescue teams to conduct searches of rural areas, challenging or dangerous terrain, including steep ground and water searches. They are supported by in house search dogs, drones and off-road vehicle capability

The team I am a member of have been deployed 8 times by police, this month alone.

Teams have also been deployed by police to support the search for murder victims.

 

[EddietheEagle]

Error. Posted twice