UK - Two arrested, 34 bodies removed during investigation into funeral directors, Hull, 10 March 2024

[Yellowbelly]

More news on this from the past 24 hours

Probe into horror funeral parlour is 'tip of iceberg', claims undertaker

A POLICE probe into the funeral parlour where 35 bodies were found is “the tip of the iceberg”, an undertaker has claimed. Michael Fogg said cut-price, no-frills funerals turned the industry into t…

www.thesun.co.uk

Mum found in funeral directors with hospital tag on 7 weeks after 'cremation'

Martin Stone's mum Susan has been identified as one of the 35 deceased recovered from Legacy Independent Funeral Directors

www.examinerlive.co.uk

'My mum's body was found at funeral directors seven weeks after we cremated her'

The mum has been identified as one of the 35 deceased recovered from Legacy Independent Funeral Directors

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Funeral industry must be regulated by law - undertakers' leader

Mark Horton calls for statutory regulation, following police investigation into Legacy Independent Funeral Directors

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Funeral parlour where 35 bodies were found is 'the tip of the iceberg'

An emotional vigil was held at St Martin's Church in Hull , East Yorkshire, directly opposite the boarded up Anlaby Road branch of Legacy Family Funerals, which is under police investigation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Crematorium looking to reassure community after 'horrific' funeral directors incident

The team at Birches Crematorium has organised an open day event to allow members of the public to be confident in the service they provide.

www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk

The funeral director quoted by The Sun thinks that £1200 for a no frills 'straight to crem' funeral was too low. Legacy were charging £970.

Prices | Legacy FD

Details here about our funeral packages prices

www.legacyfuneraldirectors.co.uk

 

[Teeniesmum]

Could be any number of people who blew the whistle. There's an adjoining business directly next door and, if it's as bad as reported, they could very well have seen/smelt signs. Horrific and horrible to think of - thoughts are with the families. It could also have been a postie or a member of casual staff - who doesn't usual see back of house - but was tasked with picking up and delivering a recently deceased person there (e.g. with the owner allegedly been out of the country). I'm a local and this has affected so many people. In terms of social connections Hull is more like a village than a city and most people know someone affected. The Hessle Road community, where the "Legacy Chapel" is located, is also tight-knit and very 'working class' and a big percentage from ex-fishing industry families. It seems there is much more to come out. JMO.

Thank you for your reply, yes I don't know why presumed it was locked tight so no one would notice what horror was going on. I'm sorry your community has been affected by this deceitful and horrific situation. I just hope the investigations are thorough and able to give answers to the community and ensure processes are in place to ensure it never happens again.

 

[Yellowbelly]

The funeral directors won't have had adequate storage facilities for 35 without someone's (perhaps from a nearby business or a delivery person) nose eventually taking notice.

IMO it's highly unlikely a local crematorium reported this, there are too many other funeral directors for them to be concerned and the staff's obvious thought would be that they were just using another site. As I understand, Legacy sometimes used a crematorium around four hours away in Andover (source: cremation certificates of known people who have used it). This is not that unusual, many funeral directors use the same site (will not name it but you will have seen TV adverts for it under a certain brandname).

It looks like this case has exposed massive loopholes in the funerals and cremations industry. While funeral directors offer a paid service to cremate bodies and return ashes, is there actually a specific timeline in which they have to do this (e.g. 7 days)? I don't believe there is, and the industry is based on trust and decency, hence the situation that has unfolded. If a funeral director has cash flow problems its easy to see how they could delay and delay the process until they find themselves in a situation they can't get out of. JMO.

Hull to Andover and back to Hull is a 500 mile round trip. Imagine the costs of that in terms of wages and fuel. Then consider that they seem to have been charging peanuts for no frills cremations. You can see how they would quickly have found themselves running out of cash.

 

[JustTryingToHelp]

Hull to Andover and back to Hull is a 500 mile round trip. Imagine the costs of that in terms of wages and fuel. Then consider that they seem to have been charging peanuts for no frills cremations. You can see how they would quickly have found themselves running out of cash.

I know of people who have used this firm and some cremation certificates have said "Andover" on them (others have been done with Hull City Council but I afaik that costed more).The Andover site is a very well known brandname (I won't name it). To emphasise - I've seen TV adverts for it today under its business-to-consumer brandname. That firm generally does "collections" of the deceased so it may be that some funeral directors have deals with them (perhaps picking up from several different towns and cities on one trip, like a Megabus). I don't exactly know how it works but don't think it would have been Legacy doing the driving, JMO.

Also, when the BRADFORD branch of Heavenly Services liquidated, they owed Hull City Council £88,000 (news source below), so would be surprised if Hull's crematoriums were offering cremations "on tick" after that, meaning Legacy - in their financial situation - would have to find the cheapest options.

Bradford pensioners left devastated after funeral firm collapses

DEVASTATED pensioners have spoken of their distress after a funeral company they paid out thousands of pounds to went bust.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

I also just did a Google search on direct cremations from Hull and I'm getting sponsored brokers' quotes (from companies that appear to be online only) in the £990-£995 range.

EDIT- looks like I was wrong about Hull City Council not offering "on tick" services after the Heavenly Services fiasco (see below). Looks like Legacy owed them £51,000! That's ontop of the £88,000 lost to Heavenly Services Bradford and doesn't bear to think what the Hull branch owed them. Don't they do credit checks?!

Funeral firm at centre of police probe owed thousands as 35 bodies removed

Humberside Police said it had received 1,500 calls from mourners over the concerns of their loved ones' remains.

www.express.co.uk

 

[JustTryingToHelp]

It's really interesting that it all started going wrong for Legacy funeral directors in January 2022, that's when Legacy got its first compulsory strike off notification.

LEGACY INDEPENDENT FUNERAL DIRECTORS LTD filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

LEGACY INDEPENDENT FUNERAL DIRECTORS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

According to the company's Facbook page, they signed for the new Hessle Road premises on 14 December 2021 and, after renovating it, it opened in January 2022 (same month as the strike-off warning). The owner must surely have known he was facing financial issues when he took on the new place? JMO.

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It's like that building's cursed, both firms (Heavenly Services and then Legacy) following roughly the same path. Legacy was fairly stable on Companies House from 2010-mid-2021.

December 14th 2021 also actually seems quite early for Legacy to have signed to rent the building considering the Heavenly Services owner only died 11 October 2021. JMO.

 

[JustTryingToHelp]

Deleted - post duplicated.

 

[JustTryingToHelp]

Missed this article from The Yorkshire Post, it reports the newspaper believes BOTH Robert Bush and Saskya Bush were out of the country when the funeral premises were raided.

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[JustTryingToHelp]

The funeral director quoted by The Sun thinks that £1200 for a no frills 'straight to crem' funeral was too low. Legacy were charging £970.

Prices | Legacy FD

Details here about our funeral packages prices

www.legacyfuneraldirectors.co.uk

Hull City Council's cremation prices are actually really cheap. An early morning "delivery" cremation (e.g. no service) is only £500 [price list below, also requires payment of medical certificate]. If Legacy were charging £970 that's a decent profit.

It seems, however, that HCC had issued a CCJ for £51k owed so probably refused to stop taking from Legacy which meant they had to look out of area. JMO.

https://www.hull.gov.uk/BereavementServices/downloads/file/1/cremation-fees-2023-to-2024

 

[Lucy6226]

Missed this article from The Yorkshire Post, it reports the newspaper believes BOTH Robert Bush and Saskya Bush were out of the country when the funeral premises were raided.

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Interesting....think they knew what was coming?? Moo

 

[Teeniesmum]

Missed this article from The Yorkshire Post, it reports the newspaper believes BOTH Robert Bush and Saskya Bush were out of the country when the funeral premises were raided.

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wonder if they'd done a runner?

 

[ChasingKaty]

Is there a way to test ashes for DNA or is all that material destroyed in the oven? Like is there any way for people with ashes to ensure that what they were given is actually the remains of their loved one?

 

[JustTryingToHelp]

Is there a way to test ashes for DNA or is all that material destroyed in the oven? Like is there any way for people with ashes to ensure that what they were given is actually the remains of their loved one?

Have thought about this, and JMO but I don't think so. If that was possible I reckon we'd have seen commercial DNA companies (e.g. Ancestry) testing ashes for DNA sequences. It'd be big business. DNA deteriorates pretty quickly even in a fridge so will be obliterated during cremation.

The police and NCA may go about it another way and test to see if the ashes are other materials (e.g. cement, or crushed cat litter or mixes of products containing chemicals). They should be able to establish whether the ashes are human, or something else. I guess that would form part of the fraud case, but not necessarily give families who DO have human ashes peace of mind it's actually their relative.

 

[Parker Knoll]

This case is so DARK.

 

[rightsaidfred]

'My mum's body was found at funeral directors seven weeks after we cremated her'

The mum has been identified as one of the 35 deceased recovered from Legacy Independent Funeral Directors

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[Officer Dibble]

'My mum's body was found at funeral directors seven weeks after we cremated her'

The mum has been identified as one of the 35 deceased recovered from Legacy Independent Funeral Directors

www.walesonline.co.uk

Honestly this is so emotionally horrific for all the families.

 

[Yellowbelly]

Hull City Council's cremation prices are actually really cheap. An early morning "delivery" cremation (e.g. no service) is only £500 [price list below, also requires payment of medical certificate]. If Legacy were charging £970 that's a decent profit.

It seems, however, that HCC had issued a CCJ for £51k owed so probably refused to stop taking from Legacy which meant they had to look out of area. JMO.

https://www.hull.gov.uk/BereavementServices/downloads/file/1/cremation-fees-2023-to-2024

And cremating out of area increases their costs. Somebody has to pay to transport the caskets down to Andover. Combined with the increased overheads of having three premises rather than just one, you can see how their cash flow issues could quickly spiral out of control. Their plan initially probably was to work through their backlog of bodies when business picked up, which it never did, so they were overwhelmed by the backlog and got rumbled.

 

[JustTryingToHelp]

This new article states Legacy used a crematorium in Leeds. Could they have been running up (and not paying) accounts with several different places?

Why funeral poverty has soared in Britain - Tortoise

Last week police removed 34 bodies and ashes from the Legacy Independent Funeral Directors in Hull as bereaved families realised they may have “kissed empty coffins” and made keepsakes with the ashes of people other than their loved-ones. The bewilderment of the living was bad enough, but the...

www.tortoisemedia.com

Another point to consider is the possibility that bailiffs of some description could have gained access to the Legacy site and called police given they had CCJs against them. I'm not sure how it all works but a quick Google says High Court officers can force entry to business premises.

 

[lightofmine99]

I think the only possible way DNA could be retrieved from ashes is via bone fragments that remain after cremation. There are always some remaining fragments but they would have to be big enough. The chances of them still holding testable DNA is slim to none regardless.

 

[Sjöberg]

Wow, horrific. Adding greedy/psycho funeral home workers to the list of reasons why I refuse to cremate my loved ones.
I hope it was purely about money and not about any of the more sinister reasons. I mean the options range from necrophilia to some sort of "experiments" to a network of whatever crazies there are. I do think good old greed is most likely, luckily.

 

[JustTryingToHelp]

I think the only possible way DNA could be retrieved from ashes is via bone fragments that remain after cremation. There are always some remaining fragments but they would have to be big enough. The chances of them still holding testable DNA is slim to none regardless.

Interesting yet dubious imo information on this website here: DNA Testing on Cremated remains | EasyDNA UK.

I am by no means a DNA expert but I am an amateur enthusiast (e.g. genealogy purposes) and would be highly surprised if the above commercial company had ever extracted a DNA profile from cremains.

If we consider the Steven Avery case and the murder of Teresa Halbach, only a partial DNA profile could be recovered and this is when numerous bones were found, it appears the partial profile came from a piece of pelvis. Ashes? Almost impossible, JMO.