UK - US Diplomat's wife leaves UK after killing Harry Dunn, age 19, Northampton, Sept 2019 *suspended sentence*

[human]

I'm actually surprised the Dunns were invited to the White House to meet with the president himself. Is this how international incidents resulting in the death of a foreign national on foreign soil are normally handled? I've never heard of a case like this. The administration seems very eager to calm down the situation. Jmo.

a photo op just like after El Paso.

 

[kaen]

I think people thought there would be a healing/forgiveness moment like in the Amber Guyger trial. The idea that a family whose child was killed would be up for a meeting without their consent to plan it was the first big mistake. Botham Jean's family had done a lot of soul searching, therapy, and family work. The son came to the decision to hug her based on his own spiritual thinking/heart.

The Dunn's deserve better than this in their quest for justice for their son. The murderer/car driver admitted to a mistake and told police she would be in country and "left in the middle of the night" to avoid justice. The Dunns came to plead for justice not have a kiss and make-up meeting. To arrange this with no notice/consent, no therapist, no support services (heck, even Jerry Springer had therapists back stage) and to pressure them once they said no is an embarrassment on the diplomacy side.

 

[otto]

The Dunn family announced their intention to travel to Washington where they hoped to meet with politicians and Trump to discuss justice for their son. Even though it was a surprise that Trump met with them, that was what they hoped.

Their trip was announced in advance and everyone was aware of their intentions. They were in Washington to request that Ms Sacoolas return to the UK.

What was not announced was a decision by Ms Sacoolas to be at the White House in a room with media ready to turn a family's grief into a photo opportunity with a controlled narrative.

"The family are set to travel to Washington, where they hope they can meet with as many politicians as possible, including Mr Trump.
...

At the heart of their trip is a request that Anne Sacoolas, who allegedly crashed into Dunn on his motorcycle on 27 August near RAF Croughton, Northamptonshire, return to the UK. She later fled from Britain claiming diplomatic immunity while police were investigating – a protection that the Foreign Office says no longer applies."​

Harry Dunn’s parents call on Trump to intervene over fatal crash

 

[Lilibet]

Is this how international incidents resulting in the death of a foreign national on foreign soil are normally handled?

to pressure them once they said no is an embarrassment on the diplomacy side.

BBM

Sitting on my hands. Must not comment, must not comment...

 

[FrostOwl]

I think people thought there would be a healing/forgiveness moment like in the Amber Guyger trial. The idea that a family whose child was killed would be up for a meeting without their consent to plan it was the first big mistake. Botham Jean's family had done a lot of soul searching, therapy, and family work. The son came to the decision to hug her based on his own spiritual thinking/heart.

And the brother of Botham Jean did it after Amber Guyer had been sentenced in court, not before. Hopefullt the Dunn's can get their day in court, and that they after that can decide if and when they will be able to forgive Anne Sacoolas.

 

[otto]

And the brother of Botham Jean did it after Amber Guyer had been sentenced in court, not before. Hopefully the Dunn's can get their day in court, and that they after that can decide if and when they will be able to forgive Anne Sacoolas.

How could anyone forgive someone who deliberately drove on the wrong side of the road, killed a child, lied about being available for an inquiry, and then fled the country? That's hardly the action of someone who wants forgiveness.

 

[Enola]

Grieving Family's Spokesman Says Trump 'Henchmen' Were Snarling at Family to Pressure Them Into Meeting Son's Killer

 

[otto]

The Dunn family went to Washington to ask for justice, and the response was Presidential intimidation. I hope the UK throws the book at Ms Sacoolas.

"Sieger described the scene to Camerota as “terrifying,” and described Trump’s aides as “henchmen.”
...

“You do that in a controlled environment, not in the Oval Office with the cameras and henchmen snarling at us and big Secret Service people. I mean, it was terrifying,” Sieger said.
...

“I think I somehow found the courage to say to the President, I said, no, Mr. President, this meeting is not happening today in these circumstances. If it happens, it will be back in England when she’s going through the legal process,” Sieger said.

“And Robert O’Brien was sitting right next to him, and he snarled at me ‘She is never going back, never.'” Sieger added."​

Grieving Family's Spokesman Says Trump 'Henchmen' Were Snarling at Family to Pressure Them Into Meeting Son's Killer

 

[firebird]

How could anyone forgive someone who deliberately drove on the wrong side of the road, killed a child, lied about being available for an inquiry, and then fled the country? That's hardly the action of someone who wants forgiveness.

Deliberately drove on the wrong side of the road? I thought everyone agreed that that part of this was an accident?

 

[otto]

Deliberately drove on the wrong side of the road? I thought everyone agreed that that part of this was an accident?

It is law that people in the UK drive on the left side of the road, and everyone who is legally allowed to drive in the UK knows that. The steering wheel is on the right side of the vehicle.

Anyone who gets into a car where the steering wheel is on the right knows that something is different, so the decision to drive on the right side of the road has to be deliberate in the sense of not caring enough to think about "what's wrong with this picture?"

 

[Lilibet]

The Dunn family went to Washington to ask for justice, and the response was Presidential intimidation. I hope the UK throws the book at Ms Sacoolas.

"Sieger described the scene to Camerota as “terrifying,” and described Trump’s aides as “henchmen.”
...

“You do that in a controlled environment, not in the Oval Office with the cameras and henchmen snarling at us and big Secret Service people. I mean, it was terrifying,” Sieger said.
...

“I think I somehow found the courage to say to the President, I said, no, Mr. President, this meeting is not happening today in these circumstances. If it happens, it will be back in England when she’s going through the legal process,” Sieger said.

“And Robert O’Brien was sitting right next to him, and he snarled at me ‘She is never going back, never.'” Sieger added."​

Grieving Family's Spokesman Says Trump 'Henchmen' Were Snarling at Family to Pressure Them Into Meeting Son's Killer

This story comes from CNN, just to be clear. I had never heard of Mediaite before. It gathers stories from MSM.

 

[Lilibet]

It is law that people in the UK drive on the left side of the road, and everyone who is legally allowed to drive in the UK knows that. The steering wheel is on the right side of the vehicle.

Anyone who gets into a car where the steering wheel is on the right knows that something is different, so the decision to drive on the right side of the road has to be deliberate in the sense of not caring enough to think about "what's wrong with this picture?"

I remember when we had a rental car in Ireland and every time we made a turn, I reminded my husband “stay left, stay left.” Although I can see how she could have ended up on the right (wrong) side of the road (force of habit), it’s our responsibility to drive correctly in a foreign country or not drive. She didn’t deliberately run down Harry Dunn, but she was certainly guilty of reckless driving causing a death.

 

[firebird]

It is law that people in the UK drive on the left side of the road, and everyone who is legally allowed to drive in the UK knows that. The steering wheel is on the right side of the vehicle.

Anyone who gets into a car where the steering wheel is on the right knows that something is different, so the decision to drive on the right side of the road has to be deliberate in the sense of not caring enough to think about "what's wrong with this picture?"

Of course UK driving is obviously different from US driving. And it makes new drivers from the US prone to error (and vice-versa, I'm sure). In fact, I'm so sure that I couldn't quickly master UK driving that I've never rented a vehicle when I'm there. That's not at all what deliberate means to me. I have no doubt that the woman accidentally turned into the wrong lane out of habit. Imo, the decision to leave the country is the problem she has in this case -- at least in terms of public opinion.

 

[otto]

Of course UK driving is obviously different from US driving. And it makes new drivers from the US prone to error (and vice-versa, I'm sure). In fact, I'm so sure that I couldn't quickly master UK driving that I've never rented a vehicle when I'm there. That's not at all what deliberate means to me. I have no doubt that the woman accidentally turned into the wrong lane out of habit. Imo, the decision to leave the country is the problem she has in this case -- at least in terms of public opinion.

Driving in the UK is different than in Europe and many other places. It's not just people from the states and it's not all of Europe, as stated by Trump. Anyone who drives in the UK has to pay attention to law, and not paying attention can result in deaths. Those deaths are not intentional.

I agree that leaving the country was a big mistake, but she probably had bad advice. There has not been any confirmation that she or her husband had diplomatic immunity.

"Last week, Mr. Trump described the death as “a terrible accident,”adding that it was “a very, very complex issue because we’re talking about diplomatic immunity.”

He also expressed understanding for Ms. Sacoolas, suggesting that he himself had driven on the wrong side of the road in Britain. On Wednesday, the president again expressed his sympathy for Ms. Sacoolas, whom he said had been confused by British driving laws.

“I believe it was going down the wrong way because that happens in Europe,” Mr. Trump told reporters. “The roads are opposite. And she said that’s what happened. That happens to a lot of people, by the way.”​

Trump Stuns Grieving Britons: Meet the Suspect in Your Son’s Death

 

[otto]

What would people say if someone from the UK ran over one of Trump's children in Washington? Would they say "accident's happen" because "that happens in Europe" and the states, "the roads are opposite?"

 

[Taskforce88]

There are a lot of accidents that occur on UK roads due to the non-UK driver forgetting and driving on the right instead of the left. The woman didn't kill this young man intentionally and she seemed willing to help police in the enquiry. Clearly, the State Department didn't want that.

 

[mickey2942]

What would people say if someone from the UK ran over one of Trump's children in Washington? Would they say "accident's happen" because "that happens in Europe" and the states, "the roads are opposite?"

His kids are driven around in limos and fly in helicopters. The rich are definitely different. Which is why he was so incredibly tone deaf on the inappropriate action of setting up the Dunns to meet their child's killer.

Photo op? No thanks.

 

[otto]

His kids are driven around in limos and fly in helicopters. The rich are definitely different. Which is why he was so incredibly tone deaf on the inappropriate action of setting up the Dunns to meet their child's killer.

Photo op? No thanks.

I would hope that world leaders have better things to do than meddle in a traffic incident, but apparently not.

It should be so cut and dried based on law. The woman does not have any diplomatic immunity. She killed a man in the UK and then fled the country. The President of the United States has one role: uphold the law.

Strange to see his decision to protect a woman who is violating the law.

 

[Lilibet]

The rich are definitely different. Which is why he was so incredibly tone deaf on the inappropriate action of setting up the Dunns to meet their child's killer.

BBM

I honestly don’t think being rich is why this particular rich person was tone deaf and potentially cruel. Plenty of rich people have empathy IMO.

The President of the United States has one role: uphold the law.

Strange to see his decision to protect a woman who is violating the law.

BBM

No longer strange. Sadly, that ship has sailed.

 

[otto]

BBM

I honestly don’t think being rich is why this particular rich person was tone deaf and potentially cruel. Plenty of rich people have empathy IMO.

BBM

No longer strange. Sadly, that ship has sailed.

We live in a global economy. Diplomatic Immunity is in place to ensure that when wives run over the locals, they will not suffer a worse justice system than they would face at home. As it stands, the woman that killed the local would receive a lighter sentence than at home. There are denials that the woman or her husband had diplomatic status. So we have no diplomatic status and a lighter sentence where she killed the local.

What exactly is she doing? Who is giving her advice? Rich or poor, how could she be more stupid than she has been?