GUILTY UK - Vanessa George & 4 others for child sex abuse ring, Plymouth, 2009

[Kat]

I think we are going to start seeing a lot of these female sexual predators being arrested and facing prison sentences.

The Cantu case has opened the eyes of not only LE but of the general public.

Those women that prey on children can't hide any longer. They can't use the culteral bias that our collective culture holds towards women that leads us to believe they aren't capable of committing sex crimes, they aren't capable of being predatory, they aren't capable of making a choice viewing (of any type) of their own volition.

Oh yes they are...and we here at WS know all too well how capable they are of the things I listed above and of other violent crimes against other and children.

I say it's a day to celebrate because now these victims won't be silenced any longer. They will be believed when they point a finger at the perp of their violations and the finger points to a woman.

If she is proven guilty of these crimes, then it is because she is a sexual predator and sex offender, and not because of the "yada yada" excuses we make up for women when they are caught commiting these crimes.

Sex offenders make me want to uke: and :furious:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think we are going to start seeing a lot of these female sexual predators being arrested and facing prison sentences.

The Cantu case has opened the eyes of not only LE but of the general public.

Those women that prey on children can't hide any longer. They can't use the culteral bias that our collective culture holds towards women that leads us to believe they aren't capable of committing sex crimes, they aren't capable of being predatory, they aren't capable of making a choice viewing (of any type) of their own volition.

Oh yes they are...and we here at WS know all too well how capable they are of the things I listed above and of other violent crimes against other and children.

I say it's a day to celebrate because now these victims won't be silenced any longer. They will be believed when they point a finger at the perp of their violations and the finger points to a woman.

If she is proven guilty of these crimes, then it is because she is a sexual predator and sex offender, and not because of the "yada yada" excuses we make up for women when they are caught committing these crimes.

Sex offenders make me want to uke: and :furious:

I think you are right and I so hope that you are for our children's sake. I think this devious secret has been going on for decades but due to the way society views women it has let them skirt under the radar undetected.

We must look at women differently. To be trusting without question is to put our children in jeopardy. They are just as cunning, deadly and manipulative as a male predator.

When researching the Cantu case I was horrified to read that if a victim makes a claim of sexual abuse against a female 80% of the time they are not believed. We have got to start opening our eyes. If not we are leaving victims who will not report or who are not believed who will have no support or justice and will have to deal with their shattered lives all on their own.

imo

 

[Parmenides]

Her family has disowned her...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-George-nursery-worker-charged-sex-abuse.html

I'm still very surprised her husband isn't being investigated at all.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Her family has disowned her...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-George-nursery-worker-charged-sex-abuse.html

I'm still very surprised her husband isn't being investigated at all.

Because I imagine she is the only one on the tape sexually abusing the children and when they were abused she was not at home but in the daycare center where she worked. I don't think they have anything that shows they need to investigate the husband. Female pedophiles do not need the help of men to do the devil's work. They are very capable of doing it themselves.

It is so sad, now she has also shattered the lives of her husband and their two children. She has put such shame on them all.

The town seems to be going ballistic with rage toward her. I dont blame them.

imo

 

[lonetraveler]

I know it's just your opinion, and I respect that. And I know it's a modern theory that women are secretly interested in . But let's take a reality check. If women were interested in , there would be magazines aimed at women - simple economics, demand and supply. But while there are tons of magazines and mega-gigabytes of male-oriented , there is nothing, nada, zilch for women. Evidently, women are not interested in . QED. Or am I missing something?

And getting back to the important issue. I cannot believe this woman - a MOTHER - would do the things she is being accused of. Either some horrible mistake has been made, or there is a man behind it.

---------------
You are missing something. If you will just goggle: women who sexual abuse children you will get a lot of information on this topic.

Women do commit this crime and it is often ignored by people who can't believe that they do indeed commit these crimes.
Below are just two of many sites.

http://sexual-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/female_sex_offenders

http://www.menweb.org/panosumm.htm

 

[oceanblueeyes]

---------------
You are missing something. If you will just goggle: women who sexual abuse children you will get a lot of information on this topic.

Women do commit this crime and it is often ignored by people who can't believe that they do indeed commit these crimes.
Below are just two of many sites.

http://sexual-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/female_sex_offenders

http://www.menweb.org/panosumm.htm

I feel so sorry for these victims.

From the bottom link

Summary

This was a vivid and horrific program in which the victims of sexual abuse by women told disturbing stories of emotional and physical damage:
Rape and attempted murder of a 12 year old boy by a 19 year old girl
Rape and abuse of a 12 year old boy over a two year period by a 28 year old mother of four
Rape and abuse of boys by their mother
Rape and abuse of girls by their mother
Women taking a lead role in pornographic violence and abuse
Children abused by nuns
Children abused at playgroup
Boy abused by lesbians


The biggest trauma for some victims is disbelief. A survey of 127 survivors by the children's charity Kidscape showed 86% were not believed at first when they named a woman as their abuser.

 

[Parmenides]

Well reading those links has been an eye-opener to say the least.

Looks like I was mighty wrong when I thought that women would never dream of committing sexual abuse of children.

 

[HesterMofet]

I went to a training on female sex offenders of children back in the late 80s or early 90s for my job working in a group home for the state. At the time, the percentage of female offenders was at 14%. It's low compares to the males but it shocked me that it was even that high. I don't know if the numbers have changed.

I also worked with male JSOs/sexually reactive kids and while I learned a lot about the psychological reasons for sexually offending, I still don't "get it" emotionally, especially when it involves very young children. I get the whole "high school cheerleader" fantasy, but a five year old? All the logical reasons in the world can be explained to me and I'll still shake my head and say, "I just don't effing get it."

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I went to a training on female sex offenders of children back in the late 80s or early 90s for my job working in a group home for the state. At the time, the percentage of female offenders was at 14%. It's low compares to the males but it shocked me that it was even that high. I don't know if the numbers have changed.

I also worked with male JSOs/sexually reactive kids and while I learned a lot about the psychological reasons for sexually offending, I still don't "get it" emotionally, especially when it involves very young children. I get the whole "high school cheerleader" fantasy, but a five year old? All the logical reasons in the world can be explained to me and I'll still shake my head and say, "I just don't effing get it."

I think the available statistics are horribly flawed. First boys are the least likely to report sexual abuse and I read an article that when a victim of either gender reports sexual abuse done by a female, 80% of the time they are not believed.

So I do think woman do these despicable things at a much higher rate than claimed but because of societal views on females they have been able to remain hidden all of these years.

I certainly hope that there are changes in the very immediate future so that all these sexually abused victims will be believed when they do report and may become more comfortable reporting abuse happening to them by a female predator.

imo

 

[ziggy]

I think the internet and the availability of to women has opened the door for those women who are disturbed, may have been abused themselves etc. to build on their perversion and start acting out.

If a woman has had sexual abuse or has seen a lot of it in and they were aroused, they are just as capable as men of doing some nasty things. I also think there is some degree of a power trip with children, or that totally tabu excitement.

is just not a good thing for our society. Sure we're free and we can legally have it, but nothing really good ever comes of it does it?

I would urge women to be careful not to fall into that trap. All the women I know who do watch were introduced to it by a man and it became a part of that relationship, which got weird and ended. Of course, it was titillating so they started needing it to "warm up" just as much as men. Once you need something to help fire the engine, that need doesn't go away. I just think it's a dangerous road to go down.

 

[HesterMofet]

I think the internet and the availability of to women has opened the door for those women who are disturbed, may have been abused themselves etc. to build on their perversion and start acting out.

If a woman has had sexual abuse or has seen a lot of it in and they were aroused, they are just as capable as men of doing some nasty things. I also think there is some degree of a power trip with children, or that totally tabu excitement.

is just not a good thing for our society. Sure we're free and we can legally have it, but nothing really good ever comes of it does it?

I would urge women to be careful not to fall into that trap. All the women I know who do watch were introduced to it by a man and it became a part of that relationship, which got weird and ended. Of course, it was titillating so they started needing it to "warm up" just as much as men. Once you need something to help fire the engine, that need doesn't go away. I just think it's a dangerous road to go down.

I don't think causes women to act on urges any more than it causes men to do so. If looking at caused men to go nuts and rape women and children, they would all be jailed and the industry soon would go bankrupt. Anyone who rapes and murders and then uses as an excuse, like Ted Bundy, is just looking for an excuse for their aberrant behavior.

 

[HesterMofet]

I think the available statistics are horribly flawed. First boys are the least likely to report sexual abuse and I read an article that when a victim of either gender reports sexual abuse done by a female, 80% of the time they are not believed.

So I do think woman do these despicable things at a much higher rate than claimed but because of societal views on females they have been able to remain hidden all of these years.

I certainly hope that there are changes in the very immediate future so that all these sexually abused victims will be believed when they do report and may become more comfortable reporting abuse happening to them by a female predator.

imo

You're right about sexual abuse victims not being believed, but I wonder how many of those cases are within families rather than someone in the neighborhood. Not that it makes it any better, but I am sure it's harder to believe that Uncle Joe is a perp than Mr. Smith down the road. I'd say 95% of the girls I worked with in the group home who were abused (and I'd say close to 80% were) were abused by stepfathers, biological fathers, uncles, cousins, mother's boyfriend etc., not a stranger or a neighbor.

Then you have cases of girls who lie about teachers (I remember a couple of cases where the teachers' lives were ruined before the girls recanted and said they were just mad at the teachers) and overzealous social workers and police who don't know or don't care to question children properly in the day care situations that have been proven to be false allegations. I am sure there are people who believe that every time a kid says they were abused, that they were. I think it really depends on the circumstances and I would have a difficult time if I were on a jury to convict someone without more than he said/she said evidence. This woman, however, can rot in a very warm place.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You're right about sexual abuse victims not being believed, but I wonder how many of those cases are within families rather than someone in the neighborhood. Not that it makes it any better, but I am sure it's harder to believe that Uncle Joe is a perp than Mr. Smith down the road. I'd say 95% of the girls I worked with in the group home who were abused (and I'd say close to 80% were) were abused by stepfathers, biological fathers, uncles, cousins, mother's boyfriend etc., not a stranger or a neighbor.

Then you have cases of girls who lie about teachers (I remember a couple of cases where the teachers' lives were ruined before the girls recanted and said they were just mad at the teachers) and overzealous social workers and police who don't know or don't care to question children properly in the day care situations that have been proven to be false allegations. I am sure there are people who believe that every time a kid says they were abused, that they were. I think it really depends on the circumstances and I would have a difficult time if I were on a jury to convict someone without more than he said/she said evidence. This woman, however, can rot in a very warm place.

I believe that a balance has to be struck. They just cant dismiss the report simply because the alleged predator is a woman and imo in the past that is what has happened. LE gives the alleged female offender more credibility than their victims simply because even in LEs mind they are hesitant to believe a female can indeed be a predator.

I would also think that both females and males are abused by a family member, many times their own mothers. These victims are too ashamed to come forward to expose them imo. Boys or even adult males when they are grown, rarely divulge they have been raped. I don't think it is a small percentage of males who have been abused by either biological parent. Mothers sexually abuse their sons and daughters just like fathers do.

The truth is we do not know the percentage that are sexually assaulted by a female because often the victims aren't believed or they don't report out of fear, retribution or a sense of loyalty if it is their own biological mother.

Police will have to determine the evidence and the credibility of the victim with an open mind instead of having tunnel vision. Only around 2% of rape allegations aren't truthful. That leaves 78% of the victims who were truthful who are not getting any semblance of justice even though they have been grossly violated both physically and emotionally by the female.

imo

 

[VespaElf]

I don't think causes women to act on urges any more than it causes men to do so. If looking at caused men to go nuts and rape women and children, they would all be jailed and the industry soon would go bankrupt. Anyone who rapes and murders and then uses as an excuse, like Ted Bundy, is just looking for an excuse for their aberrant behavior.

Agreed (Playboy ,the tamest out there made Bundy commit rape,torture ,murder AND necrophilia? PLEASE!)however I do think it can encourage those also 'programmed' to go further than they might as well as feed their urges.I also think COMPULSIVE viewing can "desensitize" the viewer & they must go further & further to "get off".I also believe the acceptability of in our culture (Jenna Jameson was a correspondent for Entertainment Tonight!) and easy availability of both mainstream AND "extreme" on the Internet are a factor in WHAT SEEMS TO BE (I don t have hard data ,(Im just going by my own opinion of what Ive read)an increase in these types of crimes as well as more women & younger perps being involved.

 

[VespaElf]

I believe that a balance has to be struck. They just cant dismiss the report simply because the alleged predator is a woman and imo in the past that is what has happened. LE gives the alleged female offender more credibility than their victims simply because even in LEs mind they are hesitant to believe a female can indeed be a predator.

I would also think that both females and males are abused by a family member, many times their own mothers. These victims are too ashamed to come forward to expose them imo. Boys or even adult males when they are grown, rarely divulge they have been raped. I don't think it is a small percentage of males who have been abused by either biological parent. Mothers sexually abuse their sons and daughters just like fathers do.

The truth is we do not know the percentage that are sexually assaulted by a female because often the victims aren't believed or they don't report out of fear, retribution or a sense of loyalty if it is their own biological mother.

Police will have to determine the evidence and the credibility of the victim with an open mind instead of having tunnel vision. Only around 2% of rape allegations aren't truthful. That leaves 78% of the victims who were truthful who are not getting any semblance of justice even though they have been grossly violated both physically and emotionally by the female.

imo

Although it makes us sick we accept 'Mothers' physically abuse,neglect or kill their children.........why is it such a stretch to think that they would sexually assault them? They are capable of physical violence but NOT sexual?
As terrible as these stories are they need to be told so the unfortunate future victims that are sure to come will be believed & their stories investigated.

 

[Parmenides]

Pictured: The joking face of the nursery worker accused of sex abuse of young children

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-worker-accused-sex-abuse-young-children.html

According to this article - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/06/14/nursery-abuse-mum-s-night-out-115875-21438959/ - she was fun and popular.

It seems she might have fallen under the influence of some guy called Colin Blanchard, who perhaps was the one who persuaded her to take these photos. (Though in saying that I may be falling into the trap of assuming a woman cannot commit abuse unless a man makes her do it.)

 

[Parmenides]

Here is an article from the politically correct Guardian claiming that Vanessa George is being treated more harshly because she is a woman.

"Why else are female suspects routinely tried twice - first officially in court for the crimes, then, unofficially, emotionally, culturally - for the fact that they are women, and therefore their actions are deemed somehow more disgusting, unnatural and unforgivable."

"...internet debate appears to favour...the idea that Huckaby was a mere accomplice to a man. Back in Britain, while we can accept the idea of women acting alone, we also seem to want to punish them more. How can this be right?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/14/barbara-ellen-sex-crimes-women

The (female) author of this article appears to be challenged by Vanessa George's crime as it disturbs her worldview that only men (all men?) are nasty sex predators, and women are always, and can only ever be, victims. Therefore she tries to make out Vanessa George as the victim of anti-female prejudice, while dishing out some totally unresearched claims (made up in her own mind) that women are punished for sex crimes more severely than men. If she looked at the links posted by lonetraveler, she might learn that for the same crimes where men are sent to prison for several decades, women typically get probation or a slap on the wrist, and female-initiated sexual abuse is routinely minimised as 'affairs' and 'love trysts', and ultimately considered as not that serious.

 

[HesterMofet]

While I do not think all females molesters are victims, I do believe society treats them more harshly, if not the law. Men are seen as base and following their predatory nature when they molest. Women are supposed to be the nuturers of the human race and when someone goes against that, they are treated more harshly. It messes with people's (skewed) worldview of all women as mothers and caretakers.

 

[Parmenides]

You say "society" treats women more harshly, but when judges, the media, and even the victims seem to be far more lenient/accepting towards female "abusers" (i.e. those women who "fell in love with", "had an affair with" and "wanted to marry" some 13-year old or whatever), where exactly is the evidence for this harsh treatment?

The case where the mother reported a 15-year-old babysitter for getting her 8-yo son to touch her breasts, and the police arrested and charged the boy not the babysitter - is that the kind of "harsh treatment" you are talking about?

Sorry, I don't want to jump down your throat, but this just confuses me.

 

[mysteriew]

I agree. How many female teachers have we seen let off on probation? And many reoffended. One judge even said of the female teacher that she was too pretty to put into jail. The law seems to be easier on the females than the males, and we know that are often not hard enough on the males.

Now society, I don't know. I haven't run into any females that I know of who were convicted of abusing kids. If I did, I would guess I would have problems with them. But I would have problems with any males that I came across that were convicted of abusing kids too. Maybe I am just an equal opportunity hater and against pervs in general, and esp those who attack kids. But I am not sure about the rest of society.

Do I hate the fact that a female would sexually abuse a kid? Yes. But I do find it believable. Because females are just like males. The myth that females don't have a sex drive went out with the '60's. They have urges, preferances and faults just like males. And they also have sexual preferances as to type, sex and age. We know that not all women are motherly, just like not all men are fatherly. And both sexes can become predatory, whether they are predatory for someone else's money, materials or to cause pain. So while I hadn't thought about it before, no it doesn't surprise me.