UPDATE- Bin Laden is Dead-President spoke

[Dr.Fessel]

Hi Nova, It is appalling to me we give any money to Pakistan and I wonder when it started and why? I know we give allot of money to Israel as well.

I always thought it was decided to give these monies to help insure that a democratic political system would be nurtured in those countries. If the leader of Pakistan is less than honorable, do you know why we continue to assist them like this? Do you know which president started sending money to Pakistan? Clinton?

Ta

I would bet the aide started during the Russian/Afghan war.

 

[Dark Knight]

I think he's dead too. But I do want to see the photo.

It's not like it would be the first time we were shown photos of a dead terrorist.

We saw photos of SH and his sons.

It sounds like this photo is especially gruesome, with most of the left side of his head blown off. It isn't just gunshot wounds. It would probably have to be a black and white photo at the very least to be published anywhere.

But I also agree with those who say the President is afraid of offending Muslims. He went out of his way to bury Osama according to their traditions, after all. (Most of them likely could have cared less what we did with OBL.)

 

[Emma Peel]

osama bin dead more than 2 days now.

still happy!

:skip: :skip: :skip:

 

[Cubby]

It sounds like this photo is especially gruesome, with most of the left side of his head blown off. It isn't just gunshot wounds. It would probably have to be a black and white photo at the very least to be published anywhere.

But I also agree with those who say the President is afraid of offending Muslims. He went out of his way to bury Osama according to their traditions, after all. (Most of them likely could have cared less what we did with OBL.)

BBM. I have to respectfully disagree. I do not believe our president is afraid of showing photo's. In fact, by not showing photo's of a half blown off head we are demonstrating some sense of respect and acting in a more dignified manner by not stooping to the level some of the extremists/terrorist have excersized.

rotten.com has enough of those kind of nasty pictures for those interested in that kind of stuff.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

So where is the proof we got this guy?

It's filed with the birth certificate stuff.

Under "C".

 

[Wise Old Owl]

It sounds like this photo is especially gruesome, with most of the left side of his head blown off. It isn't just gunshot wounds. It would probably have to be a black and white photo at the very least to be published anywhere.

But I also agree with those who say the President is afraid of offending Muslims. He went out of his way to bury Osama according to their traditions, after all. (Most of them likely could have cared less what we did with OBL.)

That's been bugging me all day. They say they have a few photos but the best one - the one that you can really tell its him is this gruesome one. Ya know, the one with half the top of his head blown off and his eyes are all swollen. So, how would that help in seeing his face to be able to tell its him?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Hi Nova, It is appalling to me we give any money to Pakistan and I wonder when it started and why? I know we give allot of money to Israel as well.

I always thought it was decided to give these monies to help insure that a democratic political system would be nurtured in those countries. If the leader of Pakistan is less than honorable, do you know why we continue to assist them like this? Do you know which president started sending money to Pakistan? Clinton?

Ta

Carter.

International involvement and aid to the Afghan insurrection

The deployment of Soviet troops in Afghanistan obstructed Pakistan's efforts to dominate Afghanistan by proxy. United States President Jimmy Carter had accepted the view that "Soviet aggression" could not be viewed as an isolated event of limited geographical importance but had to be contested as a potential threat to the Persian Gulf region. The uncertain scope of the final objective of Moscow in its sudden southward plunge made the American stake in an independent Pakistan all the more important.

After the Soviet deployment, Pakistan's military dictator General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq started accepting financial aid from the Western powers to aid the Mujahideen. The United States, the United Kingdom, and Saudi Arabia became major financial contributors to General Zia, who, as ruler of a neighboring country, greatly helped by ensuring the Afghan resistance was well-trained and well-funded.

Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence and Special Service Group now became actively involved in the conflict against the Soviets. After Ronald Reagan became the new United States President in 1981, aid for the Mujahideen through Zia's Pakistan significantly increased. In retaliation, the KHAD, under Afghan leader Mohammad Najibullah, carried out (according to the Mitrokhin archives and other sources) a large number of operations against Pakistan, which also suffered from an influx of weaponry and drugs from Afghanistan. In the 1980s, as the front-line state in the anti-Soviet struggle, Pakistan received substantial aid from the United States and took in millions of Afghan (mostly Pashtun) refugees fleeing the Soviet occupation. Although the refugees were controlled within Pakistan's largest province, Balochistan under then-martial law ruler General Rahimuddin Khan, the influx of so many refugees—believed to be the largest refugee population in the world[10]—into several other regions had a heavy impact on Pakistan and its effects continue to this day. Despite this, Pakistan played a significant role in the eventual withdrawal of Soviet military personnel from Afghanistan.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Soviet-Afghan_War

 

[Charlie09]

It sounds like this photo is especially gruesome, with most of the left side of his head blown off. It isn't just gunshot wounds. It would probably have to be a black and white photo at the very least to be published anywhere.

But I also agree with those who say the President is afraid of offending Muslims. He went out of his way to bury Osama according to their traditions, after all. (Most of them likely could have cared less what we did with OBL.)

The beheading of Daniel Pearl was incredibly gruesome, it's still on youtube - our young men being dragged also brutal. I think it was Kimberly who noted we all watched people jump to their death from the WTC - incredibly brutal.

We can handle the gruesomeness.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That's been bugging me all day. They say they have a few photos but the best one - the one that you can really tell its him is this gruesome one. Ya know, the one with half the top of his head blown off and his eyes are all swollen. So, how would that help in seeing his face to be able to tell its him?

I am sure they put a tape measure along side him in pictures. Show the body of the 6 foot 4 guy they took out of that house. What did they take the pictures for?

 

[Charlie09]

But there have been some good points made as to why we should care about what others think of us. Ya know - the allies - so we can have strategic military bases - eyes in the sky - safe passage for our ships - etc. etc.

I didn't say we should be indiscriminate. I think we should do the right thing for the right reason, and we gain support and favor automatically except from those who would like to destroy - and for that group - who cares?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

BBM. I have to respectfully disagree. I do not believe our president is afraid of showing photo's. In fact, by not showing photo's of a half blown off head we are demonstrating some sense of respect and acting in a more dignified manner by not stooping to the level some of the extremists/terrorist have excersized.

rotten.com has enough of those kind of nasty pictures for those interested in that kind of stuff.

JMO

I got to look at my son-inlaw in a casket, dead from being on so many prescriptions drugs because this military sent him over there 3 times and drove him nuts like they have done to thousands of soldiers.

They need to show these pictures of this serial killing mass murderer. To many people have died hunting for this freak.

 

[Fairy1]

Ya know its funny.

We have all done this. We have a friend or family member that wears something "kooky" or does some strange thing to their hair or acts crazy now and then. So, we say "what will the neighbors think"? Or "what will people say"? I know a whole bunch of you have had your mom say those words to you at one time or another. And what is the usual reply?

I don't care what people think. Or - if they don't like it, they don't have to look at it.

Or sometimes its the other way around - someone close to you is embarrassed. You, in trying to comfort and console them and make them feel better will say "Who cares what people think?" Or "it don't matter - they don't know you".

So, how is it that we consistently say in our daily lives that it really doesn't matter what people think of you or say about you BUT in the global outlook it ALL HINGES on what other countries or other rulers think about us or say about us? Huh?

Then which is it? Do we care about what other people think or do we not care?

As an individual, I couldn't possibly care less what people think of me. Yet as a proud member of a nation that is considered a "superpower," I do care. Particularly when we choose to police the rest of the world.

Bin Laden has managed to amass an army of people who would love nothing more than to see the USA wiped of the face of the earth. Of course, many of us feel the same way about the Middle East, and I'm quite certain some of that desire is based on the fact that they dance in the streets at any hint of our suffering. I would prefer to see Americans take the high road when the tables are turned.

I am more than happy to see bin Laden gone from this earth. But the fact is, his evil seed has been planted, so it really amounts to nothing. There are most likely 100's if not 1,000's more just like him waiting in the wings. We would be wise to ask ourselves why.

Retaliation (and there most certainly will be some) is a vicious cycle. Someone has to be big enough to stop it.

JMHO.

 

[gitana1]

Snipped....

Yeah, we do. I believe it was Brenner that said yesterday that the water-boarding of the first to spill the nickname of the courier took place months before and that he actually spilled it later during a standard interrogation session. IIRC, other sources corroborated the nickname over time.

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.


"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.
Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-one-phone-call_n_856674.html




I have yet to see what you are claiming from a credible government source. Above shows the opposite. Interrogation and intelligence are not necessarily torture.

 

[Charlie09]

As an individual, I couldn't possibly care less what people think of me. Yet as a proud member of a nation that is considered a "superpower," I do care. Particularly when we choose to police the rest of the world.

Bin Laden has managed to amass an army of people who would love nothing more than to see the USA wiped of the face of the earth. Of course, many of us feel the same way about the Middle East, and I'm quite certain some of that desire is based on the fact that they dance in the streets at any hint of our suffering. I would prefer to see Americans take the high road when the tables are turned.

I am more than happy to see bin Laden gone from this earth. But the fact is, his evil seed has been planted, so it really amounts to nothing. There are most likely 100's if not 1,000's more just like him waiting in the wings. We would be wise to ask ourselves why.

Retaliation (and there most certainly will be some) is a vicious cycle. Someone has to be big enough to stop it.

JMHO.

I think the difference is, we despise so much of what we see in the Middle East, because of the brutality. We could in theory - turn our backs and not deal with them, and just leave them to goatherding.

They will never stop trying to conquer and destroying.

 

[gitana1]

Ya know its funny.

We have all done this. We have a friend or family member that wears something "kooky" or does some strange thing to their hair or acts crazy now and then. So, we say "what will the neighbors think"? Or "what will people say"? I know a whole bunch of you have had your mom say those words to you at one time or another. And what is the usual reply?

I don't care what people think. Or - if they don't like it, they don't have to look at it.

Or sometimes its the other way around - someone close to you is embarrassed. You, in trying to comfort and console them and make them feel better will say "Who cares what people think?" Or "it don't matter - they don't know you".

So, how is it that we consistently say in our daily lives that it really doesn't matter what people think of you or say about you BUT in the global outlook it ALL HINGES on what other countries or other rulers think about us or say about us? Huh?

Then which is it? Do we care about what other people think or do we not care?

I think as long as we always act with dignity and respect for ourselves and others, we should not care what people think in the sense that "haters" should not rule our conduct.

What you are talking about is standing up for our convictions, allowing our personalities to show, not being afraid to express an opinion that isn't obviously offensive like a racist one, etc). I think that's different from not giving a carp about how others feel or how our actions might affect others. Two different things.

 

[Cubby]

I got to look at my son-inlaw in a casket, dead from being on so many prescriptions drugs because this military sent him over there 3 times and drove him nuts like they have done to thousands of soldiers.

They need to show these pictures of this serial killing mass murderer. To many people have died hunting for this freak.

I'm sorry for the loss of your son inlaw. Actually your post makes a lot of sense to me. I think people should be able to see the photo if they wish to. My thoughts were along the lines of sensationalizing his half blow off head. Your post made me realize not everyone is interested in seeing the pictures for sensationalism reasons, thank you.

 

[gitana1]

This is purely speculation on my part....knowing the two men I do, one special ops, one former navy seal....we'd have heard otherwise. I truly believe they got him....and if you see my posts in the political pavillion - there's MUCH i disbelieve from our government.

I think it has to do with the guy in the oval office who doesn't want to offend muslims by showing the body. Again - pure speculation on my part.

Oh, they'll show it.

But again, no one has answered this: Why would any American president lie about such a thing when there is more than a huge risk that Osama would just appear on a tape somewhere going "nah nah nah nah nah" thereby destroying that president's career and reputation forever?

 

[Thyme]

Oh dear..I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone or cause dissension with my comment. Just an observation on the whole celebrating death, patting oneself on the back...we are the best mindset...in response to Kimberly's post. I celebrate life...not death. Regardless of who it is that dies. I do not follow leaders blindly and never ever believe what they say...as history has proven they are all liars. Governments may have started out for the people, however, there is much that goes on with the men behind the curtain that we will never know. There is an essay by Major General Smedley Butler entitled 'War Is a Racket' which is a worthy read. There is also 'The Roadmap to National Security in the 21st. Century'...completed in 1998 ...embargoed until George Bush was elected in 2001...rather long..enlightening to say the least...everything that has taken place since is there...both can be found online for those interested.

Everyone believes their country is the best. It is their homeland. I have traveled the world and now reside north of you but my heart still belongs in the Highlands of Scotland...to me that is the best country...and given the results of our recent election yesterday, placing a limp wet noodle back in power for the next four years I am really considering moving back.

I thank all those that understood what I was trying to say....perhaps not so eloquently. I will now keep my pie closed and try not to spit on anyone. ;-)

Bowing out->->

 

[Kimberlyd125]

BBM. I have to respectfully disagree. I do not believe our president is afraid of showing photo's. In fact, by not showing photo's of a half blown off head we are demonstrating some sense of respect and acting in a more dignified manner by not stooping to the level some of the extremists/terrorist have excersized.

rotten.com has enough of those kind of nasty pictures for those interested in that kind of stuff.

JMO

It's not that some are interested in "that kind of stuff".
It's that we want to see HIM DEAD.

Sorry if that sounds disrespectful or in some way not dignified. I don't see it as stooping to their level.

 

[Charlie09]

Oh, they'll show it.

But again, no one has answered this: Why would any American president lie about such a thing when there is more than a huge risk that Osama would just appear on a tape somewhere going "nah nah nah nah nah" thereby destroying that president's career and reputation forever?

why do people lie in general?