UPDATE- Bin Laden is Dead-President spoke

[Fairy1]

What price are we paying for that alliance?

They are true allies to us. They need us. They are surrounded by maniacs.

We need them! The maniacs surrounding them have the oil WE WANT!

 

[Fairy1]

I don't believe there is too great of a price -

Well, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, as are we all. I would think the families of many soldiers who have fought or are currently fighting our "wars" may beg to differ.

 

[Charlie09]

Well, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, as are we all. I would think the families of many soldiers who have fought or are currently fighting our "wars" may beg to differ.

Or not....

 

[shana]

This lively discussion is veering into multiple tangents, each of which invites or deserves attention but perhaps not here. JMO

I hope tomorrow brings more 'official' information on the subject/title of this thread. This is such a remarkable event about which we need far more clarification.

Peace

 

[scandi]

That's been bugging me all day. They say they have a few photos but the best one - the one that you can really tell its him is this gruesome one. Ya know, the one with half the top of his head blown off and his eyes are all swollen. So, how would that help in seeing his face to be able to tell its him?

Hmmmm, If half the top of his head was blown off his eyes would be no more swollen than they were before the shot. That shot would be an instant kill IMO. And at death everything stops working, so there would be no swelling.

If I am wrong please correct me ;}

 

[Fairy1]

Or not....

IDK. I can only say, I would definitely not want my 19-year-old son over there fighting terrorists.

When it's a fair fight, there are "rules of engagement." Those rules are not applicable with these freaks. There is no way to level the field.

 

[Charlie09]

IDK. I can only say, I would definitely not want my 19-year-old son over there fighting terrorists.

When it's a fair fight, there are "rules of engagement." Those rules are not applicable with these freaks. There is no way to level the field.

So we cower in fear and let them win?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Hmmmm, If half the top of his head was blown off his eyes would be no more swollen than they were before the shot. That shot would be an instant kill IMO. And at death everything stops working, so there would be no swelling.

If I am wrong please correct me ;}

Yea I realized after I posted that it wasn't right. When they were explaining the "gruesomeness" of the picture today they said something about his eyes. His left eye was mangled? Something like that - and there was something about the space between his eyes. I knew swollen wasn't right.

But I still think that a B&W pic of his face after he was cleaned up would have been better.

 

[shana]

Hmmmm, If half the top of his head was blown off his eyes would be no more swollen than they were before the shot. That shot would be an instant kill IMO. And at death everything stops working, so there would be no swelling.

If I am wrong please correct me ;}

Right, scandi. I also heard* today that his eyes were pretty much blown-off also.

So much for a photo that would satisfy clear and unquestionable identification of its subject.

*Footnote: When I type "heard", it means from CNN where my left ear was tuned for most of the day; therefore, I can't provide more definitive sources.

As this thread has enlightened me, there are those who want to see the photo for reasons other than identification.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Here's a thought. How about a still shot from the helmet cams of him right before the was shot? I mean it wouldn't prove that he was shot and killed - but it would prove it was him. We all know how the story ended so why do we have to see his face all shot up? They have video of that entire raid and I'm sure there would be some way to get a screen shot of him without identifying anyone else - I mean we've already seen the room he was shot in and the compound is known worldwide now - so what would be the big deal? I think that would do more to prove it was him than some gruesome pic of him afterward.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

I wonder how many of the people all over the world who are censoring or disapproving of the ones who celebrate, would : if their child was murdered, raped and murdered, or tortured and murdered, and the killer then received the death penalty. Would they celebrate that this evil that hurt and terrorized their child, then killed their child, was being put to death? Would they "celebrate" when he was? Me? I would pray for God to forgive their soul, then send him to Hell. Then I would celebrate.

 

[Fairy1]

So we cower in fear and let them win?

That's exactly what we have done! Next time you fly, you let me know how you felt when you had to take your shoes off or when you had to surrender one of your beauty products because it was more than the ounces allowed on a flight.

I don't know how many times a week I hear about a street or a block closing in my city (Las Vegas) due to a "suspicious" package. It's always nothing, but I can't help to think what a bunch of wussies we've become since 9/11.

We DO cower in fear! That's NOT American! That's not how any of us were raised.

IMO, the terrorists hit pay-dirt on 9/11. They couldn't have known how unbelievably deadly and catastrophic those attacks would be. We give them way more credit than they deserve. They really NEVER have to attack us again.....ever. The damage has been done. And THAT is the definition of what they are and what they do.

 

[Charlie09]

That's exactly what we have done! Next time you fly, you let me know how you felt when you had to take your shoes off or when you had to surrender one of your beauty products because it was more than the ounces allowed on a flight.

I don't know how many times a week I hear about a street or a block closing in my city (Las Vegas) due to a "suspicious" package. It's always nothing, but I can't help to think what a bunch of wussies we've become since 9/11.

We DO cower in fear! That's NOT American! That's not how any of us were raised.

IMO, the terrorists hit pay-dirt on 9/11. They couldn't have known how unbelievably deadly and catastrophic those attacks would be. We give them way more credit than they deserve. They really NEVER have to attack us again.....ever. The damage has been done. And THAT is the definition of what they are and what they do.

And thanks to our military - we got the man behind much of the fear.

 

[mysteriew]

snip.... Every now and then what looked like bullet-proof vehicles would go in and out of the compound, but security gates would slide shut immediately afterwards, locals told the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13266944

I found that curious that in the mideast, in a country with accusations of harboring terrorists leveled against you, and with fighting going on in many of the countries around you that there wouldn't be heightened awareness and that no one even got curious about armored cars and sheilded windows and isolated households.

When Saddam's palace was captured I found it interesting the contrasts of how SH was living and how the majority of his citizens lived.

I still find it interesting. Many of obl's followers, esp the bottom levels live in tents and caves. Even the more mid level are reportedly not over funded. And obl lived in a mansion, with maids, with men reportedly shopping for his household. While his life style was not such a marked contrast as with SH, there is certainly is a contrast there.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

That's exactly what we have done! Next time you fly, you let me know how you felt when you had to take your shoes off or when you had to surrender one of your beauty products because it was more than the ounces allowed on a flight.

I don't know how many times a week I hear about a street or a block closing in my city (Las Vegas) due to a "suspicious" package. It's always nothing, but I can't help to think what a bunch of wussies we've become since 9/11.

We DO cower in fear! That's NOT American! That's not how any of us were raised.

IMO, the terrorists hit pay-dirt on 9/11. They couldn't have known how unbelievably deadly and catastrophic those attacks would be. We give them way more credit than they deserve. They really NEVER have to attack us again.....ever. The damage has been done. And THAT is the definition of what they are and what they do.

I know what you're saying but I wouldn't necessarily call it cowering. I think we're just all screwed up.

If we put even half the effort into securing our borders and knowing more about who is coming in than we do in just our airport security (like who pats down a 5 year old?) we would do much better.

All day and all night at our borders we have people coming and going as they please in and out of our country and when we try to get answers or demand some action - all we get is lip service from the government.

 

[sorrell skye]

War on TERROR.
WE are making progress. This week's events show that.

War & Terrorism are two sides of the same coin, IMO.

One is sanctioned by the State, the other is not.

As far as I'm concerned, both are an abomination. Both represent a failure of enlightened diplomacy. Both threaten the existence of humanity.

The cycle of violence will not end until the cycle of violence is put to an end.

War and terrorism will not and cannot end the cycle of violence. They only perpetuate it.

To reap peace, one must cultivate peace.

In order to cultivate peace, one must plant the seeds of peace.

Nonviolence is not a sign of weakness. It is a sign of divine strength.

 

[Charlie09]

War & Terrorism are two sides of the same coin, IMO.

One is sanctioned by the State, the other is not.

As far as I'm concerned, both are an abomination. Both represent a failure of enlightened diplomacy. Both threaten the existence of humanity.

The cycle of violence will not end until the cycle of violence is put to an end.

War and terrorism will not and cannot end the cycle of violence. They only perpetuate it.

To reap peace, one must cultivate peace.

In order to cultivate peace, one must plant the seeds of peace.

Nonviolence is not a sign of weakness. It is a sign of divine strength.

Which society has lasted without using force to protect themselves?

 

[shana]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/04/bin.laden.raid/index.html?hpt=T1

I find it interesting that the 'mansion' was not better-fortified, nor OBL far more protected. Perhaps they all felt quite secure within its walls, after so many years left undisturbed. Still, a curiosity to me.

The firestorm/raid lasted some 40 mins (38 by some counts). Just what was OBL doing as he knew his fate awaited him?

Reportedly he was unarmed but offered 'resistance' of some sort, which would be futile since apparently this was a kill mission. His resistance could have been so minor as to say NO to submitting to arrest, but I seriously doubt such an option was offered to him...or would have mattered had he accepted it.

I just find it so odd that this most wanted/hated individual was on a 3rd floor with no armed protection around him, no weapons of his own.

 

[Trino]

I wonder how many of the people all over the world who are censoring or disapproving of the ones who celebrate, would : if their child was murdered, raped and murdered, or tortured and murdered, and the killer then received the death penalty. Would they celebrate that this evil that hurt and terrorized their child, then killed their child, was being put to death? Would they "celebrate" when he was? Me? I would pray for God to forgive their soul, then send him to Hell. Then I would celebrate.

I find it scary that photos of Americans celebrating will be shown on TV worldwide. While I'm glad OBL is gone, crowds on the streets, chanting "USA, USA" is fuel for retaliation. Hopefully, we will be on top of any such plans.

 

[Trident]

I found that curious that in the mideast, in a country with accusations of harboring terrorists leveled against you, and with fighting going on in many of the countries around you that there wouldn't be heightened awareness and that no one even got curious about armored cars and sheilded windows and isolated households.

When Saddam's palace was captured I found it interesting the contrasts of how SH was living and how the majority of his citizens lived.

I still find it interesting. Many of obl's followers, esp the bottom levels live in tents and caves. Even the more mid level are reportedly not over funded. And obl lived in a mansion, with maids, with men reportedly shopping for his household. While his life style was not such a marked contrast as with SH, there is certainly is a contrast there.

Sorta like the "President" living in the white house while many of our citizens live in ghettos, public housing, or in homes in suburbia being foreclosed?