UPDATE- Bin Laden is Dead-President spoke

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  • #941
I think they are two separate issues, really. Just because they both deal with the Muslim world, doesn't mean they can be glopped together. I don't believe the killing of bin Laden goes against the Geneva Conventions. jmo

To be perfectly honest,it might. He was unarmed. They probably could have taken him captive.(not complaining though).
I believe they are one in the same. The whole point at least for this administration seems to be that we need to be sensative to the Muslim community,as they might harm Americans. Don't ruffle feathers,yet when it served a political purpose,then its ok to enflame them.
(I'm thinking this is a discussion for the political pavillion,so I'm shutting up now)
 
  • #942
Uh, yeah-- well, you're right. But, imo it was tacky and unnecessary. I guess we have a Commander in Chief who agrees.

I, for one, have no need to gaze upon a corpse.

eta: Are you doubting the ability of our Seals to get the job done? I don't. I think they succeeded, just like they claim.

I've stated over and over and over again I know 100% he is dead.
We got the job done.
 
  • #943
The people who shouted for the pictures of Abu Ghraib to be released were not very concerned that they might inflame Muslims to retaliate against Americans. Now all of a sudden some of those same people are saying the death photos of Bin Laden shouldn't be released because it would endanger Americans. If they were concerned about American lives,none of the photos should have been released.

The photos from Abu Ghraib had to be released to ensure that those responsible would be held accountable. Otherwise, the matter could have been swept under the table. If human lives were put at risk, blame the criminals, just as you would with any other crime.

Personally, I don't really care whether pictures are released of bin Laden's corpse. Any 9-year-old can whip up a fake in Photoshop in about 10 minutes, so what difference does it make whether we see the real thing? But there's no comparison to Abu Ghraib, unless you want Navy seals prosecuted for killing bin Laden. I don't.
 
  • #944
  • #945
I don't know what to think anymore. I was hoping this admin would bring about the transparency to gov't they promised during the campaign but I feel we are in the dark now more than at any other time that I can remember. Is it just me or does it seem like everyone has forgotten that this country is about US and the politicians who are in place are there to carry out our will?

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."


Abraham Lincoln, Gettysburg Address

Are you really that upset for fear you won't get to see Bin Laden's dead body?

Probably no administration is as transparent as we might like, but this one has admitted, for example, that bin Laden was unarmed, even though they could have claimed he went down shooting to make killing him seem more justified.
 
  • #946
The photos from Abu Ghraib had to be released to ensure that those responsible would be held accountable. Otherwise, the matter could have been swept under the table. If human lives were put at risk, blame the criminals, just as you would with any other crime.

Personally, I don't really care whether pictures are released of bin Laden's corpse. Any 9-year-old can whip up a fake in Photoshop in about 10 minutes, so what difference does it make whether we see the real thing? But there's no comparison to Abu Ghraib, unless you want Navy seals prosecuted for killing bin Laden. I don't.

No they didn't! It could have been handled without the public seeing them.

What did we (the public) do to punish those soldiers? What was gained by showing the photos?

NOTHING
 
  • #947
To be perfectly honest,it might. He was unarmed. They probably could have taken him captive.(not complaining though).
I believe they are one in the same. The whole point at least for this administration seems to be that we need to be sensative to the Muslim community,as they might harm Americans. Don't ruffle feathers,yet when it served a political purpose,then its ok to enflame them.
(I'm thinking this is a discussion for the political pavillion,so I'm shutting up now)

But even if your hypothesis were true, photos of OBL's dead body wouldn't make the case one way or another. So there's still no equivalent with Abu Ghraib.

Why is releasing the photo so important? With all the tools available today, none of us could verify its authenticity anyway. (And you KNOW there'd be a sudden rash of bloggers claiming the photo was a fake.)

Given the hard feelings from the previous decade, what is so wrong about a little sensitivity toward feelings in Muslim countries? We can't go to war with a billion Muslims, so would it be so bad if we got a few on our side?

Obviously, "sensitivity" didn't keep Barack Obama from invading Pakistan (technically an act of war, BTW) and killing bin Laden.

We rightly complain bitterly when Arabs celebrate American deaths (civilian or military); so why not take the high road and refrain from the high tech equivalent of dragging Osama Bin Laden's corpse through the streets and sticking his head on a pike at the castle gate?
 
  • #948
  • #949
No they didn't! It could have been handled without the public seeing them.

What did we (the public) do to punish those soldiers? What was gained by showing the photos?

NOTHING

Technically you're right, it COULD have been prosecuted anyway. But historically such things usually aren't unless there is public awareness and pressure.

That is the principle behind releasing the photos.

So let's be angry at those who put American lives in danger by mistreating Iraqi prisoners, let's do that rather than blame the messenger!
 
  • #950
Which society has lasted without using force to protect themselves?

the key words here, or course ,are "protect themselves"
as T. Roosevelt said "walk softly......and carry a big stick" (may not be exact , didn't go back and check)
Why do we have to protect ourselves sometimes? Because of hearts that are not open to the Peace mentioned in a previous post.

OBL put himself out there as a target when he began his mission of killing innocent people for his own reasons. He could, obviously, have chosen a more "Peaceable" path for his life (and others) but he didn't. JMO
 
  • #951
Technically you're right, it COULD have been prosecuted anyway. But historically such things usually aren't unless there is public awareness and pressure.

That is the principle behind releasing the photos.

So let's be angry at those who put American lives in danger by mistreating Iraqi prisoners, let's do that rather than blame the messenger!

So, you agree and I stand by my point.
It COULD have been handled without the public seeing the photos.

There are many members of our armed forces that do things they shouldn't. They are human. We do not hear about all of them because it's handled by the Military.
This could have been the same.

The release of those pictures put our troops at risk. ALL OF THEM. Not just the ones who did wrong.

They should have never been released. IMO
 
  • #952
Are you really that upset for fear you won't get to see Bin Laden's dead body?

Probably no administration is as transparent as we might like, but this one has admitted, for example, that bin Laden was unarmed, even though they could have claimed he went down shooting to make killing him seem more justified.

I personally don't want to see his body nor do I care if those pics are released.
 
  • #953
the key words here, or course ,are "protect themselves"
as T. Roosevelt said "walk softly......and carry a big stick" (may not be exact , didn't go back and check)
Why do we have to protect ourselves sometimes? Because of hearts that are not open to the Peace mentioned in a previous post.

OBL put himself out there as a target when he began his mission of killing innocent people for his own reasons. JMO

And we killed him back. :great:

He won't be killing any more Americans.
 
  • #954
Well, I know I wouldn't want an American corpse plastered all over the media... be careful what you ask for, imo. I would avoid setting this standard...
 
  • #955
Watch out Emma! Those smilies look like they are celebrating!
Shame shame shame. :smile:

Osama bin dead 3 days.
Still happy.


:skip: :skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip:



I don't know what to say.
I keep finding them all over New York City.
They are lighthearted, happy, and full of hope.
They say they are celebrating...
Celebrating life, bravery, heroes, perseverance and freedom.
Oh, and something about relief and closure.
They seem sincere and harmless to me.
I get the sense they've suffered together...
And now they're celebrating together...
Heck, I say we let them carry on a bit longer.
Eventually ... they'll all have to go back to work.​
 
  • #956
So, you agree and I stand by my point.
It COULD have been handled without the public seeing the photos.

There are many members of our armed forces that do things they shouldn't. They are human. We do not hear about all of them because it's handled by the Military.
This could have been the same.

The release of those pictures put our troops at risk. ALL OF THEM. Not just the ones who did wrong.

They should have never been released. IMO

When I said "technically" I meant it in the sense that means "in theory." Odds are the crimes at Abu Ghraib would not have been punished without some public outcry. See Quiche's link above.

And you're still blaming the messenger.
 
  • #957
  • #958
the key words here, or course ,are "protect themselves"
as T. Roosevelt said "walk softly......and carry a big stick" (may not be exact , didn't go back and check)
Why do we have to protect ourselves sometimes? Because of hearts that are not open to the Peace mentioned in a previous post.

OBL put himself out there as a target when he began his mission of killing innocent people for his own reasons. He could, obviously, have chosen a more "Peaceable" path for his life (and others) but he didn't. JMO

I agree that a society has a right to protect itself just as we grant each individual the right of self-defense. Historically, however, nations have tended to define "self-defense" far more broadly than any court would allow an individual.

See the example of Japan above. In the minds of Japanese military leaders in 1941, "self defense" meant a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, thousands of miles away.
 
  • #959
  • #960
Osama bin dead 3 days.
Still happy.


:skip: :skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip: :skip: :skip: :skip:
:skip:



I don't know what to say.
I keep finding them all over New York City.
They are lighthearted, happy, and full of hope.
They say they are celebrating...
Celebrating life, bravery, heroes, perseverance and freedom.
Oh, and something about relief and closure.
They seem sincere and harmless to me.
I get the sense they've suffered together...
And now they're celebrating together...
Heck, I say we let them carry on a bit longer.
Eventually ... they'll all have to go back to work.​

Love it! :smile:
 
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