Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

[gitana1]

just watched the video of Lizzie's mom speaking at the candlelight vigil. Emotianlly devastating to watch. Her description of Lizzie's personality reminds me of my daughter at that age. So many things in common with my own wild child. My heart breaks for Jessica. I think she did an good job of helping us to know who Lizzie was and honoring that memory. I don't know that I could have gotten through it in her shoes.

“Lizzy, my unique wild child, I love how much you love nature. You always kick off your shoes and let the earth touch your feet. We always adventure on the path less taken, your goals are always searching and hoping for a stream, a river or even a lake to dip your feet, or possibly jump right into the water. You love so many things, beautiful things that you want to share, like giving picked flowers to people or rocks that you would find. My friend called me today to tell me that she still has a rock that Lizzy gave her in her pocket and that makes me so proud to be your mom, always and forever. You are the best sister, always so helpful and so kind. You’ve taken so much time teaching your sister kind things, watching you reminds me to always be kind too,” Jessica continued.

[snip]

“I want to light a candle in your loving memory, I light this candle for you because you have illuminated my heart. I love you, and daddy loves you, and Maddy loves you.”

It's awful. Poor lady. It's gratifying to see so much community support however. That must touch her heart.

 

[gitana1]

I don't think the mother is to blame. He was her brother who, most likely never did anything sketchy regarding the children, so how could she really expect this outcome? There are many people with substance abuse problems and/or mental health issues that are functional and generally safe in family settings. This saddens me, because she was obviously trying to be supportive of her brother. He was in her home, drinking and playing video games in a safe environment, he wasn't out on the streets doing God knows what with God knows who. And Lizzy was safe too, in her bed. The family had no reason to believe he would do something like this. Her mother didn't put Lizzy in a dangerous sittuation. Nothing can excuse what he did. He knows right from wrong. I feel very sorry for her poor mother.

Yes. Despite creating a checklist of how to protect our kids, including not allowing family members who have criminal histories, domestic violence backgrounds, addiction issues, past sexual abuse allegations, anger problems or serious mental health issues to spend the night or be alone with our children, I know hindsight is always 20/20.

There was nothing I know of that indicated he would creep in there and take that child and murder her. Who could anticipate that?

I'm sure she knew he was troubled but unless she had knowledge that he had abused or was suspected of abusing a child (like the mother of Maleah Davis did), there's really no way she could anticipate that particular, monstrous depravity of a crime or that he was capable of it.

What he did- an uncle to his five year old niece - was an insane horror.

It's so shocking and unfathomable of an act that I don't see how she could have conceived of it or anything like it, regardless as to what a loser or how troubled her brother was.

 

[Kiranerys]

“This past week has been a complete nightmare. The absolute unthinkable has happened. We’ve lost our beautiful, sweet Lizzy,” she said, clutching a microphone and a notebook with family and supporters behind her. “When this world-shattering news of her disappearance happened, it felt like I was drowning.”

[snip]

“A clock started ticking wildly inside of my head, and I knew we were racing against time to try and find her,” Whipple said through tears and a strained voice. “It didn’t end the way we wanted it to, but that isn’t going to stop us from taking good care of our sweet, sweet Lizzy.”

[snip]

“As we light our candles tonight and we see the flickers of the bright flames, let us think of ways to live like Lizzy,” she said. “Tonight I challenge each of you to live as Lizzy did: to stop and smell the flowers, to be kind to others, to find joy and happiness in the little things.”

Beautiful! What an amazing, courageous woman.I have tears falling again.
Thankyou for sharing thos ticya, I haven't been able to view it in the UK,although I'm not sure my heart could take watching and hearing Jessica's beautiful description of such a free spirited little girl

 

[gitana1]

I want to clarify about the insanity defense discussions going on. It is SO hard to successfully lodge one of these defenses. His actions surrounding the murder alone make it very unlikely he could win on such a defense. Further, there will have to be a vast amount of expertise that also determines he is insane, which he is not. I wouldn’t be surprised if the defense posits this as their tactic; what other option has he given them? They know he did it so it won’t be a “who done it” type of defense. Rather, it’ll be “yes he did, but here’s why he’s insane and not culpable”. But in my professional opinion (I’m a prosecutor), it won’t work. He’s not insane, he’s just evil.

Yup.

Having a mental health issue is not close to enough to be successful in such a defense.

I know you understand this far better than I (who only learned the basic outline of the defense - McNaughton rule - in law school, and never had to practically apply it), but my basic explanation for those unfamiliar is that to be not guilty by reason of insanity, a person had to either not realize what he was doing,
(the example we got is a person thinks they're squeezing a lemon rather than strangling someone), or he didn't know it was wrong (the best example is Andrea Yates who truly believed she was saving her kids from hellfire and had to do it. And even she was found guilty at first before a retrial).

But he won't try an insanity defense at all because Utah is one of the few states that doesn't have the insanity defense!

The most he can do is plead guilty but mentally ill and all that will do is have him possibly committed to the state mental hospital until he is no longer insane, at which time he would be transferred to regular prison for the rest of his sentence.

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title77/Chapter16A/77-16a-S104.html?v=C77-16a-S104_1800010118000101

 

[gitana1]

I think (not a mental health professional) that AW is absolutely damaged and has mental health issues. I also think he is not legally insane.

His abducting Lizzie from the home, his hiding of her bloodied clothes, his hiding her body, his lies about whereabouts to LE, his attempts (uggh) to lick the dried blood evidence from his hands while sitting in the interview room, are all IMO evidence of his consciousness of guilt both during and after the crime. ie. He knew what he did was wrong and therefore took pains to hide it and try to distance himself from it.

I think he is an angry young man. I think he may have been intensely jealous of Lizzie's childhood, his sister's little family, where from all reports there was love. I think little Lizzie represented to him all he had been denied as a child. She was loved, she was protected. Nobody ever did that for him. Why should she get that?

My heart breaks for Lizzie's mama.

He could never be legally insane in Utah because they don't have the insanity defense! One of only four states that don't have it.

 

[gitana1]

I am not so sure. I think the professionals need to take their time in evaluating him. The remarks from the grandfather, who knows he did it and thinks he did it to hurt the whole family, seem to indicate that he may have suffered more abuse as a child than we are yet aware of.

No. Abuse as a child which causes mental health issues is not the same a legally insane which is extraordinarily rare. Legally insane people don't try to hide what they did or cover it up or lie about it.

I remember a law professor I had talking about his days as a federal defense attorney. He had a client who sat under counsel table crapping himself. Not found insane enough for an insanity defense.

Few are. A troubled childhood is nothing. They all (criminals) had a troubled childhood.

Regardless, there is no insanity defense in Utah.

 

[ClaireNC]

@gitana1 Thanks for jumping in with your explanations. They are always appreciated!

 

[Doghairrules]

I want to say that this is one of the saddest cases I've followed and although it is horrific, there have been several in the last month, as well as in the recent past, that are just as sad and horrific. AJ, Maleah, Noah, Lucas, Sherrin, I could keep going on and on. The level of violence visited upon these children is horrific.

And here's the thing; Lizzy was not in the wrong place at the wrong time. I know we say that all the time, and I catch myself saying it too. Lizzy was where she was supposed to be. Lizzy was at home, asleep in her bed when evil came calling. AW was the guy in the wrong place. I have to keep reminding myself of this. The person in the wrong place was AW.

I'm just thinking out loud this morning because it seems that child abuse at this level is becoming more and more commonplace. How many times do we click onto a thread about a missing child and we collectively hold our breath because WE KNOW what's coming? We've seen it before and we are going to see it again. Children being thrown away in garbage bags, and hidden under debris in a backyard like they are nothing. They're disposable. They're trash - they're garbage. It's positively sickening to me.

I'm from Canada and we are not immune to this. It happens here too. I'm sure it's happening everywhere.

Lizzy has hit hard. She was where she was supposed to be. She was tucked into bed and should have been safe.

This has been a hard couple of months here at WS. Very hard on kids.

I'm not sure justice is the right word I'm seeking today. I'm not sure that any punishment is justice for a dead child.

This is all MOO. I'm going to go and have my coffee now and try not to think about this too much today.

My heart is breaking for Lizzy and all the children we've lost recently.

I feel exactly the same way. And in cases where the parent(s) are involved, I think of all the people who would have loved and cherished their children and it is just about enough to crush me.

One of the bright lights in this case has been that it’s clear to me that Lizzie was loved and adored. These parents know their daughter’s personality and her bright little soul. That gives me some slight peace.

 

[Doghairrules]

just watched the video of Lizzie's mom speaking at the candlelight vigil. Emotianlly devastating to watch. Her description of Lizzie's personality reminds me of my daughter at that age. So many things in common with my own wild child. My heart breaks for Jessica. I think she did an good job of helping us to know who Lizzie was and honoring that memory. I don't know that I could have gotten through it in her shoes.

“Lizzy, my unique wild child, I love how much you love nature. You always kick off your shoes and let the earth touch your feet. We always adventure on the path less taken, your goals are always searching and hoping for a stream, a river or even a lake to dip your feet, or possibly jump right into the water. You love so many things, beautiful things that you want to share, like giving picked flowers to people or rocks that you would find. My friend called me today to tell me that she still has a rock that Lizzy gave her in her pocket and that makes me so proud to be your mom, always and forever. You are the best sister, always so helpful and so kind. You’ve taken so much time teaching your sister kind things, watching you reminds me to always be kind too,” Jessica continued.

[snip]

“I want to light a candle in your loving memory, I light this candle for you because you have illuminated my heart. I love you, and daddy loves you, and Maddy loves you.”

I was wondering who wrote the beautiful obituary. I think it was mom. She continues to amaze me with her strength.

 

[pepper 34]

Under the count of CRIMINAL HOMICIDE, AGGRAVATED MURDER, there is listed, in section (d,) aggravated arson, arson. For some murder cases, this is appropriate but it's not true in Lizzy's case. It's still on the list though.

Each item on the list below the count of aggravated murder is part of a generic list used with Utah's murder cases. The list includes any possibilities which may or may not apply in order to justify the count of aggravated murder.

I find it easier to read those lists under the COUNTS this way:

Every comma or new labeled line (such as 1, 2, 3, etc... or a, b, c, etc) = "and/or~or possibly" Stated that way, it's clear that the entire list leaves room to choose or reject what's on the list as more information becomes available through discovery.
(Recently, in the Rhoden case, the state of Ohio, had written the charges up this way and so they were much easier to understand, imo.)

Without having Lizzy's body for autopsy the COUNT of S/A would not be listed as no available evidence could justify the charge. However, now, after autopsy and if evidence exists, I should think a charge of S/A will be added.

 

[scapa]

I feel exactly the same way. And in cases where the parent(s) are involved, I think of all the people who would have loved and cherished their children and it is just about enough to crush me.

One of the bright lights in this case has been that it’s clear to me that Lizzie was loved and adored. These parents know their daughter’s personality and her bright little soul. That gives me some slight peace.

Absolutely she was loved and, perhaps as importantly, understood by her parents and other family. I wonder sometimes if that depth of understanding of and for is what true compassion is in its street clothes, and the basis for protection of a child in a family. It’s absence in other cases is immediately noticeable, IMO.

 

[pepper 34]

Oh I agree. The comment about his sister and her boyfriend getting frisky really stuck out to me when reading the probable cause statement. Whether it was true or not, he thought they were having sex, which set him off.

I don’t think he went to the house planning the rape and murder of his niece. Something happened that set the wheels in motion in his warped brain.

And, I agree with you. I'm bracing for the very worst news, as though the news isn't horrific enough already. But, I'm afraid, with a person such as he is, what we learn is only going to get worse. I really wish he'd just plead guilty and spare the family and the community all the inhuman details. Everyone has been unjustly punished enough and poor Lizzy has nothing left but to one day be a sweet memory. Won't he even leave her alone now? But, I think I knew a person like him once... and I believe the answer is going to be "No, he won't."

 

[mickey2942]

It is striking to me, the difference between Lizzie's Mother and Maleah's Mother. Both are women who have lost a child in the most horrific way. And both are reacting to the situation completely differently.

If we consider both of these women victims of violence, why is one managing this situation with incredible strength and dignity, and the other one is literally a "hot mess"? I don't know the exact reasons why...and this is not a discussion about race. But one Mother is making this all about her daughter, and the other one is making it all about herself.

 

[Kiranerys]

It is striking to me, the difference between Lizzie's Mother and Maleah's Mother. Both are women who have lost a child in the most horrific way. And both are reacting to the situation completely differently.

If we consider both of these women victims of violence, why is one managing this situation with incredible strength and dignity, and the other one is literally a "hot mess"? I don't know the exact reasons why...and this is not a discussion about race. But one Mother is making this all about her daughter, and the other one is making it all about herself.

Because one of these mothers loved and cared unconditionally for their baby girl,and her loss is felt deeply and the other "mother" at best failed her child at every turn and at worst,well lets not go there!

 

[Knox]

LOGAN, Utah (AP) - Police were able to quickly connect a man to the disappearance and death of a 5-year-old Utah girl using a new type of DNA test that can produce results within hours, authorities said.

Logan police used a Rapid DNA test to link Alex Whipple to the Saturday disappearance of his niece, Elizabeth "Lizzy" Shelley, KSL-TV reported .

The Rapid DNA machines allowed investigators to match the evidence within hours, leading to Whipple being charged with aggravated murder and other counts before the girl's body had been found, said Nate Mutter, a special agent with the state attorney general's office. The process of matching DNA can take weeks.

The attorney general's office has two of the machines.
Utah police used new DNA test to link man to child's death

We all wondered how they got the DNA results so quickly. Does every State have the Rapid DNA machines? I think this is the first time I have ever heard this mentioned in a case?

 

[mickey2942]

The other point in the "Insanity" defense in Utah is that there is no potential out for the use of alcohol or other substances during the commission of the crime.

AW admitted that when he drank he "did bad things". For a "normal" person, that would mean that you stop drinking alcohol, attend AA meetings, and no longer hang out in environments with alcohol or buy alcohol.

AW may have mental health problems, but they were definitely increased by his use of alcohol or drugs. I don't buy the "self medicating" justification that so many people use as an excuse.

Mental illness is a disease. Drinking alcohol and using drugs is a choice. True, addiction has been classified as a "disease" for a medical model for treatment, but deliberately buying and drinking alcohol is a choice. AW went to a convenience store later in the day, and bought beer. Directly breaking his probation. He could have easily bought a Coke.

 

[Knox]

It is striking to me, the difference between Lizzie's Mother and Maleah's Mother. Both are women who have lost a child in the most horrific way. And both are reacting to the situation completely differently.

Striking difference indeed. Due to TOS I can't expound on this the way I would like to, but I think many of us share the same viewpoint. I'll leave it at that.

When is AW due back in court?

 

[TTF14]

Striking difference indeed. Due to TOS I can't expound on this the way I would like to, but I think many of us share the same viewpoint. I'll leave it at that.

When is AW due back in court?

TOMORROW

 

[ClaireNC]

Mental illness is a disease. Drinking alcohol and using drugs is a choice. True, addiction has been classified as a "disease" for a medical model for treatment, but deliberately buying and drinking alcohol is a choice. AW went to a convenience store later in the day, and bought beer. Directly breaking his probation. He could have easily bought a Coke.

Might want to educate yourself before commenting about addictions. Just sayin...

 

[mickey2942]

Might want to educate yourself before commenting about addictions. Just sayin...

Licensed Substance Abuse Counselor and former addict, with dual diagnosis. Just sayin.