Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

[JustEve]

Lots of factors come into play in how scent dogs work.

I do scent training with my dogs and I find it absolutely incredible what they find and how they find it.

I have labs and golden retrievers (not yellow labs). My labs are hunting stock dogs. My goldens are hunting stock and show stock.

Without wavering I can tell you that my hunting stock golden retriever and her nose is incredible. She finds everything. She uses the wind and she is tireless. As a handler I know how to use the wind. I move her back and forth into the wind. If they are upwind they aren't going to smell anything. Depending on the cover and the conditions she won't find stuff. If its dry she will. If it's dewy it's harder.

Here's the other thing. Dogs have to keep their mouths closed to smell. If they are overworked and panting they won't be able to pick up scent. If it's really hot and they are panting, they won't pick up scent. High cover will cause them to pant and not be able to keep their mouths closed to smell. So, tired dogs that are overworked won't be able to work effectively. You need more than one dog and spell them out to find scent on this type of scale. If there weren't enough dogs to do the job then sending the same dogs out there for hours and hours will be unproductive.

There is also a difference between tracking dogs and "scent dogs". There are dogs that are trained on specific scents (i.e., cadaver dogs).

I guess I wonder at times why certain breeds of dogs are used as opposed to others. I love Shepherds and I love Malinois but - my hunting dogs work better. For tracking you are looking for the blood hounds. For scent, my money is on high drive retrievers or spaniels. These are the dogs that find stuff and won't give up if they don't.

I think it's unfair to categorize dogs as being useless. Dogs have saved many a life and found many cadavers that otherwise would not have been found.

Conditions matter. It's that simple. Wind matters, wet conditions vs. dry matters. Swirling wind, high cover, short cover, certain weeds can cause trouble too. Too much scent can be confusing.

IMO, and from experience - dogs are not useless. They provide a valuable tool in finding what humans cannot.

If I'm missing one day, I want a pack of golden retrievers looking for me.

MOO

Great post!
It is very informative and very nice. I can feel your love for dogs, you have made me happy after this horribly sad day. Thank you- and your doggies -for it!

 

[JustEve]

It's interesting that according to his grandfather, Alex was five years old when his mother left him, as that is the same age as his victim when he ended her life.

Great remark! It never crossed my mind.

 

[MsBetsy]

Video: Logan child abduction suspect denied bail in first court appearance | Gephardt Daily

No reaction from him when the charges are being read.

I find it interesting that the court appointed an attorney but his current one asked to be given the case instead and the judge agreed.

Maybe the lawyer has established a good rapport with him since he represented him before. He did get him to tell LE where the body was.
I don't think he will be able to keep him out of prison this time, however. Imo

 

[Trudie]

Do you guys remember the Jorelys Rivera case, killed by apt mtc man, Ryan Brunn?
Alex reminds me a bit of Ryan.
Ryan was able to kill himself shortly after arriving to GA DOC reception center.

 

[Seattle1]

Missing girl's body recovered just 1/2 block from her home

'Empty life'

Bill Whipple said even though the family knew Alex Whipple had problems, his alleged act of violence has left them dumbfounded.

He said his grandson's mother abandoned him at age 5 and disappeared for a number of years. She then reappeared and took him to live in another county.

"All I can tell you is he had an empty life. He had an empty home, an empty life. He was in and out of foster homes, he would run away from them, he wouldn’t stay in them at all. He was always on the run. And these are the things that, after a while, start to wear on you," Bill Whipple said.

He said the family repeatedly offered him help and urged him to go to therapy but he declined. Though Alex Whipple had a difficult life, his grandfather said that in no way justifies his alleged actions.

Bill Whipple said Lizzy's mother had a good relationship with her brother, Alex, and had helped him. She had "no clue" her brother could do such a thing, he said, adding that Jessica Whipple had done everything she could to protect her kids, and did everything she could to survive.

"Lizzy was her whole life," he said.

Bump from page 1...

 

[Bravo]

Agree...there is always an escalation of violent behaviors, my opinion.

For sure. Or thoughts escalate and lead to violence.

 

[MsBetsy]

He's posted a photo on his FB page. Does anyone else consider the green leaves and what appears to be the rail of a chain linked fence to be... kind of sick? Considering where little Lizzy was found, after all. Maybe I'm reading too much into it?
ETA: Okay, I see someone has commented this FB page might be created by a troll. That makes more sense. Now, I think I can get my stomach back where it belongs. What is wrong with some people (aside from the murderer, himself.)

Was this before or after his arrest? He doesn't have access at this point. Imo

 

[JustEve]

Dogs are amazing and we see that in many cases. They are not an exact science and therefore not admissible in Court as we know. They are a very useful tool. Sometimes a dog is as good as it's handler and vice versa. We had a Lab brought up from the South from a very high bloodline and she is a Secretariat in the field. She can find a duck nobody knew was there. She is amazing in the field and would work til she dropped. Some just are a bit better at their work than others simply due to their superior gift and a great handler.

I love reading about your dogs!

 

[Teche]

Her mother will no doubt live with the guilt of inviting evil into her home. That is a pain that never goes away and will never heal.

My own mother still, 40 + years later, is devastated that her father (my grandfather) molested me when she left me with my grandparents while she went to therapy after my father passed away.

That being said, please please please, I beg of all of you not to make this same mistake. Nobody wants to believe their own family would hurt their child. Call it denial, call it whatever. We have to do better to protect our kids. If Lizzys story can help just one sister, brother, mother, or father realize that evil is sometimes closer than we want to believe it is. Keep anyone with alcohol, substance abuse, violent behaviors, history of abuse, etc. away from our children. That’s it, bottom line, they lose the honor of being in the presence of the most susceptible members of our family.

I can only imagine what is going through her mothers mind. Anything a bunch of strangers on the internet say will never compare to the guilt she will carry with her the rest of her days.

Thank you for sharing and hugs! This is what @gitana1 was saying.

 

[moonlessnight]

not sure how much older JW is, but wouldn't she have also been abandoned by her mother? There is something wrong with how we socialize boys in this country - too much entitlement. They believe they are deserving of special treatment and that they are entitled to violence when they don't get what they want (or need, even).

We've seen so much of this lately, it almost seems like a war on women and children.

Under the same circumstances, women tend to internalize and caretake, rather than act out against the vulnerable. It's not just genes, or sex hormones (testosterone) that causes the difference.

Missing girl's body recovered just 1/2 block from her home

'Empty life'

Bill Whipple said even though the family knew Alex Whipple had problems, his alleged act of violence has left them dumbfounded.

He said his grandson's mother abandoned him at age 5 and disappeared for a number of years. She then reappeared and took him to live in another county.

"All I can tell you is he had an empty life. He had an empty home, an empty life. He was in and out of foster homes, he would run away from them, he wouldn’t stay in them at all. He was always on the run. And these are the things that, after a while, start to wear on you," Bill Whipple said.

He said the family repeatedly offered him help and urged him to go to therapy but he declined. Though Alex Whipple had a difficult life, his grandfather said that in no way justifies his alleged actions.

Bill Whipple said Lizzy's mother had a good relationship with her brother, Alex, and had helped him. She had "no clue" her brother could do such a thing, he said, adding that Jessica Whipple had done everything she could to protect her kids, and did everything she could to survive.

"Lizzy was her whole life," he said.

 

[JustEve]

Sounds like you have a wonderful tracker JustEve. Your English is just fine

Oh, thank you very much, Bravo!

And yes, my boy is a great sniffer. He is with me since he was 5 weeks old, so he is very human- oriented and although he was- I don´t know the exact term- schooled (?) for wild boar hunting, he just wants to "hunt" humans more.

 

[Waddles]

Her mother will no doubt live with the guilt of inviting evil into her home. That is a pain that never goes away and will never heal.

My own mother still, 40 + years later, is devastated that her father (my grandfather) molested me when she left me with my grandparents while she went to therapy after my father passed away.

That being said, please please please, I beg of all of you not to make this same mistake. Nobody wants to believe their own family would hurt their child. Call it denial, call it whatever. We have to do better to protect our kids. If Lizzys story can help just one sister, brother, mother, or father realize that evil is sometimes closer than we want to believe it is. Keep anyone with alcohol, substance abuse, violent behaviors, history of abuse, etc. away from our children. That’s it, bottom line, they lose the honor of being in the presence of the most susceptible members of our family.

I can only imagine what is going through her mothers mind. Anything a bunch of strangers on the internet say will never compare to the guilt she will carry with her the rest of her days.

This “Keep anyone with alcohol, substance abuse, violent behaviors, history of abuse, etc. away from our children. That’s it, bottom line, they lose the honor of being in the presence of the most susceptible members of our family.”

Thank you for posting that.

 

[moonlessnight]

Unfortunately, millions of kids are subject to the same kind of risk every day - unknowingly being placed in harm's way by unaware parents. Many kids exposed to this kind of potential harm will experience abuse of some sort, but almost none of them are murdered.

I can't place any more responsibility on JW for not protecting her child from AW than I can any other parent who is overly trusting, overly compassionate, possibly in denial, or oblivious to these dangers. I have friends who parent the same way. I don't, but I can't judge others. I am aware that their kids are at risk and I plan to be there if and when they need me. But you can't preemptively judge who is going to do this and who isn't, unless they've been studied by psychologists or received certain diagnoses. You can choose to protect and prevent (and be overprotective like me), but you can't really judge anyone for not being able to protect from danger they aren't aware of.

Her mother will no doubt live with the guilt of inviting evil into her home. That is a pain that never goes away and will never heal.

My own mother still, 40 + years later, is devastated that her father (my grandfather) molested me when she left me with my grandparents while she went to therapy after my father passed away.

That being said, please please please, I beg of all of you not to make this same mistake. Nobody wants to believe their own family would hurt their child. Call it denial, call it whatever. We have to do better to protect our kids. If Lizzys story can help just one sister, brother, mother, or father realize that evil is sometimes closer than we want to believe it is. Keep anyone with alcohol, substance abuse, violent behaviors, history of abuse, etc. away from our children. That’s it, bottom line, they lose the honor of being in the presence of the most susceptible members of our family.

I can only imagine what is going through her mothers mind. Anything a bunch of strangers on the internet say will never compare to the guilt she will carry with her the rest of her days.

 

[LietKynes]

not sure how much older JW is, but wouldn't she have also been abandoned by her mother? There is something wrong with how we socialize boys in this country - too much entitlement. They believe they are deserving of special treatment and that they are entitled to violence when they don't get what they want (or need, even).

We've seen so much of this lately, it almost seems like a war on women and children.

Under the same circumstances, women tend to internalize and caretake, rather than act out against the vulnerable. It's not just genes, or sex hormones (testosterone) that causes the difference.

BBM

Good point.
Maybe her upbringing was similar... but she reacted differently ?
It's all about choices.....
AW had been helped by his family and urged to get professional therapy as well, according to his grandpa. But he threw it all away.

 

[proctorelites]

Agree completely!

Please note I’m not trying to say AW mother or father are to blame for this, just that I believe he became what he did in part because of his upbringing, which I’m sorry but statistics do show that when crimes are committed like this 9 times out of 10 the perpetrator has came from : a broken home/cps involvement in childhood/substance or alcohol abuse/foster homes etc. We can’t deny that this is often the case and who knows had AW been brought up with love, morals etc this might never have happened. At the very least any parent worth their salt would have seen a declining mental state and took appropriate steps to ensure their child got the help they needed whether said child agrees or not. MOO

I thought this once upon a time too but when a mental health professional tells a parent that their child cannot even really be assessed because they won't discuss anything, your hands are tied. At a certain age kids become their own person and taking them to thousands of dollars worth of mental health appointments bc we think they need to talk abt their probelms, that are fruitless and stated as such by the professional is a hard pill to swallow for this single mother. A 14 yr old that refuses to talk is a force to be reckoned with, sorry it happened. Especially one that says "we all have bad days right? So I don't need help, it will pass" enlightening for a teen I thought. To this day I see there is a need for that 1 little period in time to be hashed and accepted or whatever it is we do with bad childhood memories as adults (and he still laughs at me, but he resents other "clueless" kids his age & their innocence. I try reminding him they know no different, he thinks theyre ill prepared to be adults, I see such resentment it pains me) He is successful adult now & isn't out murdering children. As his mother I still worry about it, I always will.

 

[LietKynes]

This “Keep anyone with alcohol, substance abuse, violent behaviors, history of abuse, etc. away from our children. That’s it, bottom line, they lose the honor of being in the presence of the most susceptible members of our family.”

Thank you for posting that.

^^^ Reposting.

Agreed, this is not victim blaming.
This is called being responsible.
Maybe Lizzie's death can make a difference ! We can only hope.

 

[September16]

For sure. Or thoughts escalate and lead to violence.

I saw in today’s Daily Mail article I believe he was arrested in 2016 for assault of a roommate and a DUI that lead to a police chase ending in police blowing out his tires. Behaviors or tendencies to violence and out-of-control behaviors did exist.

 

[kiaatcher]

I can't imagine the amount of pain and guilt (not deserved) JW will live with for the rest of her life.
I hope she's able to hold on hope and be the mother her other baby needs, but I worry that this is the type of pain that breaks someone permanently. Let's hope her family and friends, especially her mother, take the responsibility of guiding JW through these next few years

 

[JustEve]

not sure how much older JW is, but wouldn't she have also been abandoned by her mother? There is something wrong with how we socialize boys in this country - too much entitlement. They believe they are deserving of special treatment and that they are entitled to violence when they don't get what they want (or need, even).

We've seen so much of this lately, it almost seems like a war on women and children.

Under the same circumstances, women tend to internalize and caretake, rather than act out against the vulnerable. It's not just genes, or sex hormones (testosterone) that causes the difference.

You are right, but I think that the child´s age at the time of abandonment plays a big part also.

He was younger than JW and, if I understood correctly, he was put in foster family while the other siblings weren´ t.

I am not sure are they all children of the same woman (April) or they are stepsiblings. JW´s stepmother (Mary) is also mentioned in some articles... it seems complicated, yes.
Also, AW uses the other surname (B.; new FB account), and this is his mother´s (April) surname- or was- in her previous FB account.

This is complicated to the level that I hardly understand what I´ve just written!

 

[pepper 34]

LE would have combed thru it and once he was arrested if there was anything that can be potential evidence they would take it down. How did he and Sister communicate that eve? Text, call or maybe FB?

From the probable cause document:

"Jessica stated she began communicating with Alexander via Facebook Messenger and invited him to her residence."

https://gephardtdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/Whipple_PC.pdf