Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

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  • #241
  • #242
I totally hate how murders are allowed to barter for their life, their victims were not afforded that luxury. They obviously don't want to die, they are afraid of death, what do you suppose their victims felt like!! Especially a child, a little child being brutally murdered with NO OPTIONS! And if he was sentenced to death, it would be a humane act, no knifes,pipes,bats. He still will be able to live,to get up each day,go to bed each night. Eat meals and enjoy whatever privileges are granted in confinement. He will adjust to prison life, he may even be happier there then on the streets.
 
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  • #243
MsMarple said:
I'm jumping ahead here so if the answer is further upthread I apologize.

Was it ever reported that HRD dogs (cadaver dogs) were used in the immediate neighborhood? I've seen reports that they were used in the search south of the area but I can't find anything about the streets around the home.

I don't know much about search dogs but I know they're trained to do specific "sniffing" jobs. So maybe apart from some exceptional dogs the ones trained in trailing may have missed Lizzy's body. And yes, rain and soggy, tall weeds probably hampered efforts too.

Police: DNA evidence suggests 5-year-old Lizzy Shelley was hurt
Click to expand...

No need to apologize, I am also way beyond with my answers and reading, my net connection is really slow today.

First question: I don´t know, there were pics in the newspapers with cadaver dogs, but I don´t know where were they taken. Maybe they really never weren´t used in the neighborhood of JW´s house.

And the other, yes, there are no multi- purpose sniffers, some of them are cadaver dogs (trained exclusively for this), the other ones trail blood, third ones follow tracks... It doesn´t depend on the breed but on the training. It would confuse dog to search simultaneously for three things.
 
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  • #247
AgeofAquaruis said:
WTF? Forgiving someone doesn't mean letting them live with you, especially with kids.
Might as well go buy heroin for a drug addict.
SMH
Click to expand...
Exactly.WTF! So over this!
 
  • #248
MsMarple said:
I'm jumping ahead here so if the answer is further upthread I apologize.

Was it ever reported that HRD dogs (cadaver dogs) were used in the immediate neighborhood? I've seen reports that they were used in the search south of the area but I can't find anything about the streets around the home.

I don't know much about search dogs but I know they're trained to do specific "sniffing" jobs. So maybe apart from some exceptional dogs the ones trained in trailing may have missed Lizzy's body. And yes, rain and soggy, tall weeds probably hampered efforts too.

Police: DNA evidence suggests 5-year-old Lizzy Shelley was hurt
Click to expand...

Tracking or "trailing" dogs would have been tracking Lizzy's scent from home to wherever. The problem is, she was probably carried so no track to follow. If they were tracking AW, there probably wasn't enough scent of him for them to know what to track. Again, rain or wet conditions really hamper the ability of dogs to do their jobs.

Cadaver dogs on the other hand are looking for a specific scent that they have been trained to "alert on". Those dogs would not track but rather "air scent". They would quarter a field or street or wherever and use the air to find what they have been trained to find. They would be worked "into the wind" to pick up scent and a handler would help direct them but only to put them on the right side of the wind. Get them to the right side of the wind so they can work.

A tracking dog would be on a line and he'd be on his own. Nose down and following. Tracking dogs pull the scent up from the ground (hounds typically with long ears which move back and forth and lift scent up to their noses), while "scent dogs", use the air currents to find the scent. Their noses will go up and sniff the air. You will get "head checks" and they can change direction sharply and quickly when they get scent. They become very intense. Their tails will wag furiously and they will hone in on the scent. The handler will just stand back and watch the dog's behaviour. Once they alert, they either sit down, lie down or become a statue with their nose placed right on the scent.

It's quite remarkable to watch them work.

Where Lizzy was located was under mulch and debris. She was tight to a fence I believe. It was a hard area to get to. If the dogs where in the area and there was little breeze and on the wrong side of the wind and couldn't get to the right side of the wind, they probably couldn't scent properly. If they were in that area in high WET cover, the scent would be held down and not wafting up. Again, hard for a dog to scent when the conditions aren't optimal. The same area, later in the day, once the grass had dried and there was a slight breeze would have probably helped the dogs find her.

That's how these dogs work.
 
  • #249
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  • #252
blazelet said:
This one really hurts.

They all hurt :/

Out of hundreds of millions of adults, there are bound to be men too broken to understand what they are doing, or men too selfish to care if they hurt others ... but for the children who have to endure it, that doesn't matter.

For Lizzie, or all the others, it doesn't matter.

They are children. They are supposed to grow up believing in magic.

They are supposed to, for at least a few more years past 5, believe their parents can protect them. In most cases they can ... but in cases like this?

This one hurts because its so completely senseless. Because the parents couldn't have known. The perp went and played video games and drank with the victims family. Asked to crash on their couch. And then at some point, murdered their little girl.

He didn't legitimately cover his tracks, he wasn't acting or behaving rationally in concealing what he did ... and for some reason that, the senselessness and lack of awareness, seems to make it so much harder for me. Like if he'd been more aware, Lizzie would still be alive. So is his lack of awareness the only reason she's gone? That's ... absolutely horrible.

I do believe we are getting better. Statistically the safety of our children is a historical phenomenon. But it's not enough. It's not enough for Lizzie, or for the little ones who are alive today, and won't be next month because they happen to be related to a broken sociopath.

So yeah. Im really struggling. My littles are asleep, safe in their beds, as Lizzie should be. I mourn for her family and I mourn for what these tragedies represent for all of us. God ... I mourn for her. For the 6th birthday she won't have. For the silly drawings, the first crushes, for the warm summer days. I just wish we could all believe in magic a little longer.
Click to expand...
What a beautiful post, thank you. I so agree with what you've brought to our attention and myself personally I am going to be stepping away from the child murder cases for awhile. The Darnell, Noah, Camden, Baby Amiah, Baby King, Maleah and so many others have hurt my hurt just too damn much.

I will always think and continue to pray for all the children that will suffer abuse and death at the hands of the very people whose job it is to protect them from all harm.
 
  • #253
http://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/records-alex-whipple-was-investigated-in-2016-for-allegedly-assaulting-stepbrother/2040406723
LOGAN, Utah (ABC4 News) - Police records obtained by ABC4 News show a troubled past for accused child killer Alex Whipple, including alleged violence against another family member in 2016.

According to a police report, officers responded to 1400 N. 400 W. in Logan on March 24, 2016, and spoke with Mary Beth, who was the victim's mother.

Mary Beth indicated to police that her fiance's son, Alex Whipple, physically assaulted her son when Alex asked to borrow the victim's cell phone and the victim would not give it to him.


According to the report, Mary stated her son was on a phone call at the time Whipple, who was very upset, asked to use the cell phone. When Mary confronted Whipple about his behavior, Whipple began punching "yelling and punching walls," according to the document obtained by ABC4 News.

The report states that Whipple put holes in the walls, and then stormed into the victim's room and began punching him in the face and stomach, fleeing the house on foot.

The report indicates that Whipple's family did not know where he would go for the night, indicating at the time he was working at Blimpie's. A police officer indicated in the report that he would make contact with Whipple the next day to arrest him for assault.

Court documents show Whipple was charged with domestic violence assault for the incident.
 
  • #254
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  • #256
Dontknow? said:
I've been out all day but was this posted?

Andrew Reeser‏Verified account @andrewreeser 5m5 minutes ago
NEW: Police records I obtained today show #AlexWhipple was investigated in 2016 for beating up his stepbrother in a fit of rage. #LizzyShelley #ElizabethShelley

Andrew Reeser on Twitter
Click to expand...

2016 conviction already confirmed.

This report says is he was investigated -- could be same incident or additional.

AW is an alleged murderer of a 5 year old child -- I don't need to know more.... :eek: MOO


LOGAN — Shortly after Logan police launched the search for 5-year-old Elizabeth Shelley on Saturday, they said they found evidence near her residence that linked Alex Whipple, the girl's uncle, to the missing child.

"These items have been forensically tested and they do link Mr. Whipple to our missing child, Elizabeth. They also have evidence that links them to the residence that they were in," Logan Police Capt. Tyson Budge said Monday.

"(It) also links them together outside the home. We have several of these scenes that we have located that have evidentiary items in that we have now tested and have evidence that they were together."
[...]

Search warrants have been served at the missing girl's residence and samples were taken from Whipple himself, he said.

Evidence collected thus far points to Whipple, according to the captain.

"Since the very beginning of this investigation we have enough information and enough evidence we believe that Alex Whipple was involved in the disappearance of Elizabeth Shelley. We're putting together a case and as soon as we have more information, we'll make that available to you," Budge said.
[...]

Whipple was booked into the Cache County Jail for investigation of failure to disclose identity, possession of a controlled substance and drug paraphernalia, possession of a dangerous weapon by a restricted person and other potential charges. Previous court records list his address as Providence, Cache County.

Whipple has a criminal history. In 2016, he was convicted of assault in an incident of domestic violence involving a "cohabitant," according to state court records. He was convicted of joyriding in another case that year. He was charged with possession of a controlled substance in 2017.

Also in 2017, Whipple stole a car from his neighbor and led Utah Highway Patrol troopers on a 40-mile chase while driving under the influence of alcohol, according to court records. He finally stopped after police in Orem spiked his tires. He was arrested as he tried to run away.

He was sentenced to prison on March 19, 2018, but the prison term was suspended and he was ordered to serve 180 days in jail and five years of probation. Terms of his probation include no alcohol, no illegal drugs and drug testing and no violations of other laws, according to a court docket.
Evidence ties uncle to missing 5-year-old Utah girl, police say
 
  • #257
MummyRatcliffe said:
I’m not trying to imply that his parents are to blame for him murdering an innocent young child. I’m merely stating that in 99% of cases like this the perpetrator will have had a difficult upbringing, child abuse/neglect, foster care etc and I also am not implying that all people brought up in bad situations go on to do heinous things, the vast majority don’t. But it can’t be denied that that there is a correlation between having a troubled background and growing up to become a troubled adult. I’m very sure lots of other factors came into play to turn AW into the monster he became. Who’s can say if he would have had it in him to do this if he’d grown up in a stable loving home who taught him right from wrong? None of us can but I’d put my money on his upbringing having a significant impact on the person he grew up to become MOO
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Bad parenting and the decline of the traditional family is contributing to much that is wrong with the western world. Statistics generally don't lie
 
  • #258
Tealgrove said:
Tracking or "trailing" dogs would have been tracking Lizzy's scent from home to wherever. The problem is, she was probably carried so no track to follow. If they were tracking AW, there probably wasn't enough scent of him for them to know what to track. Again, rain or wet conditions really hamper the ability of dogs to do their jobs.

Cadaver dogs on the other hand are looking for a specific scent that they have been trained to "alert on". Those dogs would not track but rather "air scent". They would quarter a field or street or wherever and use the air to find what they have been trained to find. They would be worked "into the wind" to pick up scent and a handler would help direct them but only to put them on the right side of the wind. Get them to the right side of the wind so they can work.

A tracking dog would be on a line and he'd be on his own. Nose down and following. Tracking dogs pull the scent up from the ground (hounds typically with long ears which move back and forth and lift scent up to their noses), while "scent dogs", use the air currents to find the scent. Their noses will go up and sniff the air. You will get "head checks" and they can change direction sharply and quickly when they get scent. They become very intense. Their tails will wag furiously and they will hone in on the scent. The handler will just stand back and watch the dog's behaviour. Once they alert, they either sit down, lie down or become a statue with their nose placed right on the scent.

It's quite remarkable to watch them work.

Where Lizzy was located was under mulch and debris. She was tight to a fence I believe. It was a hard area to get to. If the dogs where in the area and there was little breeze and on the wrong side of the wind and couldn't get to the right side of the wind, they probably couldn't scent properly. If they were in that area in high WET cover, the scent would be held down and not wafting up. Again, hard for a dog to scent when the conditions aren't optimal. The same area, later in the day, once the grass had dried and there was a slight breeze would have probably helped the dogs find her.

That's how these dogs work.
Click to expand...

Amazing post! You really know hell of a lot about tracking dogs!

But trackers also lift their noses from the ground and pick the smell by the wind, they don´t operate exclusively on the ground.
I wonder why they don´t use bloodhounds or dachshunds for searching cadavers- they are smaller, easier to fit in a difficult terraine and have way better nose than German and Belgian shepherds. I guess it is because hunting dogs are stubborn and not obedient like shepherds.
 
  • #259
lucylulu said:
http://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/records-alex-whipple-was-investigated-in-2016-for-allegedly-assaulting-stepbrother/2040406723
LOGAN, Utah (ABC4 News) - Police records obtained by ABC4 News show a troubled past for accused child killer Alex Whipple, including alleged violence against another family member in 2016.

According to a police report, officers responded to 1400 N. 400 W. in Logan on March 24, 2016, and spoke with Mary Beth, who was the victim's mother.

Mary Beth indicated to police that her fiance's son, Alex Whipple, physically assaulted her son when Alex asked to borrow the victim's cell phone and the victim would not give it to him.


According to the report, Mary stated her son was on a phone call at the time Whipple, who was very upset, asked to use the cell phone. When Mary confronted Whipple about his behavior, Whipple began punching "yelling and punching walls," according to the document obtained by ABC4 News.

The report states that Whipple put holes in the walls, and then stormed into the victim's room and began punching him in the face and stomach, fleeing the house on foot.

The report indicates that Whipple's family did not know where he would go for the night, indicating at the time he was working at Blimpie's. A police officer indicated in the report that he would make contact with Whipple the next day to arrest him for assault.

Court documents show Whipple was charged with domestic violence assault for the incident.
Click to expand...

Mary Whipple is the "Step-Mother" not AW's "Mother". In my experience as a former teacher and counselor, 50% of mixed families with step parents, step children, want to get rid of the other kids. Imagine if both of your parents were with people who didn't want you around.

No excuses for AW, but his life might actually improve in prison. Sadly.
 
  • #260
Seattle1 said:
2016 conviction already confirmed.

This report says is he was investigated -- could be same incident or additional.

AW is an alleged murderer of a 5 year old child -- I don't need to know more.... :eek: MOO


LOGAN — Shortly after Logan police launched the search for 5-year-old Elizabeth Shelley on Saturday, they said they found evidence near her residence that linked Alex Whipple, the girl's uncle, to the missing child.

"These items have been forensically tested and they do link Mr. Whipple to our missing child, Elizabeth. They also have evidence that links them to the residence that they were in," Logan Police Capt. Tyson Budge said Monday.

"(It) also links them together outside the home. We have several of these scenes that we have located that have evidentiary items in that we have now tested and have evidence that they were together."
[...]

Search warrants have been served at the missing girl's residence and samples were taken from Whipple himself, he said.

Evidence collected thus far points to Whipple, according to the captain.

"Since the very beginning of this investigation we have enough information and enough evidence we believe that Alex Whipple was involved in the disappearance of Elizabeth Shelley. We're putting together a case and as soon as we have more information, we'll make that available to you," Budge said.
[...]

Whipple was booked into the Cache County Jail for investigation of failure to disclose identity, possession of a controlled substance and drug paraphernalia, possession of a dangerous weapon by a restricted person and other potential charges. Previous court records list his address as Providence, Cache County.

Whipple has a criminal history. In 2016, he was convicted of assault in an incident of domestic violence involving a "cohabitant," according to state court records. He was convicted of joyriding in another case that year. He was charged with possession of a controlled substance in 2017.

Also in 2017, Whipple stole a car from his neighbor and led Utah Highway Patrol troopers on a 40-mile chase while driving under the influence of alcohol, according to court records. He finally stopped after police in Orem spiked his tires. He was arrested as he tried to run away.

He was sentenced to prison on March 19, 2018, but the prison term was suspended and he was ordered to serve 180 days in jail and five years of probation. Terms of his probation include no alcohol, no illegal drugs and drug testing and no violations of other laws, according to a court docket.
Evidence ties uncle to missing 5-year-old Utah girl, police say
Click to expand...

I'm not one bit surprised. There will be more. MOO
 
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