UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #3

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Is it just me, or do people with MPD only murder in the movies???

Speaking for myself (diagnosed with MPD) this always tends to be the case. MPD is badly portrayed in the movies, and big screens!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Let me see if I can figure out which "personality" emerged to murder a small boy --- was it the coward, the demon, the psychopath, the miscreant, the mental midget, or the president of the "biggest loser ever" club -- no -- wait, I've got it -- it was all of them. Now they can "all" go to jail for never pursuing the necessary treatment responsible people get when they are mentally ill. But somehow, I don't think mental illness was behind this henious act -- no -- it was sheer, unadulterated evil, and it is as plain to see as the sun rising on a summer's day.

I understand the need to classify someone with MPD as mentally ill. However they are NOT normally like this. People with MPD develop MPD based on a severe trauma they have experienced. Sorta like what Ethen went through.

I imagine this poor baby being beaten every single day, and by the 3rd day he has become "used" to it, and sees a pattern, so when stepdad comes into the bedroom Ethen simply says to himself" This is not happening to me Ethen, it is happening to Sammie" And hence Sammie is created to take over the pain that Ethen could no longer handle. I would not doubt in the least that Ethan, was fracturing and developing other personalities to help him deal with the constant abuse he was haveing to endure.


I will try to share my experience with MPD/DID when I can. But I for one do NOT beleive that step dad has it or ever had it. There would have had to have been some sort of Trauma that Stepdad could not deal with, when he was a child for him to develop DID/MPD.

MPD is mostly developed when you are a child. It is very RARE to develop once you have reached adulthood, so unless stepdad had it when he was a child, I do not beleive he would be able to "claim" it as a defense.

 

[Cubby]

Aggravating factors for Capital Punishment by state

Utah-

(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel or depraved (or involved torture)
(2)The murder was committed incident to a highjacking
(3) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(4) The defendant committed or attempted to commit more than one murder at the same time
(5)The murder was committed by means of poison or a lethal substance
(6) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(7) The defendant caused or directed another to commit murder, or the defendant procured the commission of the offense by payment, promise of payment, or anything of pecuniary value
(8) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(9) The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(10) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(11) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment. The actor was under a sentence of life imprisonment or a sentence of death at the time of the homicide
(12) The victim is or has been a local, state, or federal public official, or a candidate for public office, and the homicide is based on, is caused by, or is related to that official position, act, capacity, or candidacy
(13)The murder was committed against a person held as a shield, as a hostage, or for ransom
(14)The murder was committed against a witness in a criminal proceeding to prevent the witness from appearing, or for revenge
(15)The homicide was committed while the actor was engaged in, or attempted to, or flight from committed or attempted child abuse
(16)The defendant was involved in the desecration of a dead human body or dismembering, mutilation, or disfiguring of the victim's body, either before or after death, in a manner demonstrating the actor’s depravity of mind. The homicide was committed incident to the abuse or desecration of a dead body
(17)The murder was committed by means of any weapon of mass destruction


from the following link:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/aggravating-factors-capital-punishment-state

Based on the facts we know now, I highlighted the three I believe applicable to this case regarding Nathan Sloop.

Does anyone know is there a min number of aggravating factors for Utah for capital punishment? Three that I can see, imo, is enough - at this point - to hope for capital punishment in this case.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Diagnosed?

Sorry but I call bull****. True dissociative identity disorder is rare.

I have to state that DID is not as rare as it was once believed. It is more and more prevalent now in 2010. The reason it was so rare was because alot of doctors did not believe in it, and felt that if they diagnosed someone with it they would come under scrutiny. But now that that mindset has passed, more and more people are being diagnosed with it.

But I will state yet again. I do not beleive this guy is DID. I think he is just trying to use it as a defense, And I don't think its going to work.

 

[darlin gal]

In Memory of Ethan Stacy Video
http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?...in_id=1010&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url

 

[Calliope]

respectfully snipped.

And remember when Nater Bean taught Stephanie all a person has is their word? Apparently Nater Bean has demonstrated he has NOTHING. NOT A FLIPPIN' thing - because his word is meaningless. :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:

I think ol' Nater Bean has got to be eternally grateful to his Soul Mate for allowing him to take all the blame, ensuring that she isn't the one facing the death penalty and awaiting trial without bail. And fooling those cops by claiming to be afraid? Of him? Her little Nater Bean? I'm sure he goes to bed every night chuckling at how she pulled the wool over their eyes. And last but not least, she's finally given him the chance to prove his love for her. After all, he did say he'd die for her, right??? I think these two need some alone time so that he can express his genuine appreciation for her thoughtfulness.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I'm having a really hard time with the "sybil" theory here.... and if that is true why NS wasn't locked up in an instution with soft walls and a white coat. and why SOMEONE in his life would not have sought a court order for him to get medical treatment if he was known to be such a danger.

Ok I know I am multi posting here, However, I am just getting caught up.

People with MPD are not Crazy. And they do not need to be locked up UNLESS they are a danger to themselves or others. But a person with MPD can normally function in society, with a treament team.

Me for example. I am in intensive therapy, and I am still able to function, enough to hold a job. Don't get me wrong, it was not always like this, however with the thearpy that we ahve been undergoing its gotten alot easier.

I have had to learn how to communicate with all my parts, and we have had to learn to be cooperative, and learn to compromise.

But I want to make it clear that not all Multiples can do this. They need to be in intensive therapy and if they are nto willing to do this, then chances are they will never be able to function in todays society.

BTW I just have to state, don't believe EVERYTHING you saw in Sybil. It was a very very bad portration of MPD.

 

[Calliope]

I have to state that DID is not as rare as it was once believed. It is more and more prevalent now in 2010. The reason it was so rare was because alot of doctors did not believe in it, and felt that if they diagnosed someone with it they would come under scrutiny. But now that that mindset has passed, more and more people are being diagnosed with it.

But I will state yet again. I do not beleive this guy is DID. I think he is just trying to use it as a defense, And I don't think its going to work.

Thank you and I agree. He's using it as a defense. Like SS, he really has nothing else.

I also thought you were spot on in the above post; as much as it tears me apart to even consider it, I think the only person in that hellhole who was dissociating was poor little Ethan.

 

[Calliope]

Aggravating factors for Capital Punishment by state

Utah-

(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel or depraved (or involved torture)
(2)The murder was committed incident to a highjacking
(3) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(4) The defendant committed or attempted to commit more than one murder at the same time
(5)The murder was committed by means of poison or a lethal substance
(6) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(7) The defendant caused or directed another to commit murder, or the defendant procured the commission of the offense by payment, promise of payment, or anything of pecuniary value
(8) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(9) The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(10) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(11) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment. The actor was under a sentence of life imprisonment or a sentence of death at the time of the homicide
(12) The victim is or has been a local, state, or federal public official, or a candidate for public office, and the homicide is based on, is caused by, or is related to that official position, act, capacity, or candidacy
(13)The murder was committed against a person held as a shield, as a hostage, or for ransom
(14)The murder was committed against a witness in a criminal proceeding to prevent the witness from appearing, or for revenge
(15)The homicide was committed while the actor was engaged in, or attempted to, or flight from committed or attempted child abuse
(16)The defendant was involved in the desecration of a dead human body or dismembering, mutilation, or disfiguring of the victim's body, either before or after death, in a manner demonstrating the actor’s depravity of mind. The homicide was committed incident to the abuse or desecration of a dead body
(17)The murder was committed by means of any weapon of mass destruction


from the following link:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/aggravating-factors-capital-punishment-state

Based on the facts we know now, I highlighted the three I believe applicable to this case regarding Nathan Sloop.

Does anyone know is there a min number of aggravating factors for Utah for capital punishment? Three that I can see, imo, is enough - at this point - to hope for capital punishment in this case.

Sounds like that fits the bill.

Off to go email DA again.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I agree 1000%.

I think NS used this as an excuse to avoid taking responsibility for his actions. Something tells me that a true alternate personality isn't going to go by the name of "Ghost" or "New York". Sounds like something an arrogant pseudo-tough guy punk would name his "alter-egos".

Actually I have alter personalities that go by "dizzy" and "Tired" and Silly. I know that normally when you expect name sof alters you expect the names that are most common "Sam, Troy, Justin etc" However at least in my case, when I fragmented and the alters came out, they took on there own names. So if they said they were Silly, then we would refere to that alter as being named "Silly" in therapy.

Its gennerally how they are feeling at the time, and what name they choose. Not all people with MPD have "excentric named alters" but in my case I do, and in the Therapy group that I go to, there are different people with mpd, with alters that are named "Satan", "Trouble" ETC.

Hope this helps.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

About this "multiple personality" crap. It's been a long time since I did psych, but from what I recall, it's not like the person commits an act and then *snaps to* with the realization he's been under the control of an alternate personality. There are long and distinct periods of amnesia of sorts, where they are unable to recall significant events and they "lose" long periods of time in their life. If they're even aware of what's happening, it's as if they're watching themselves from afar. Hence it being a dissociative disorder. IMO, he used this as a means to avoid taking responsibility for his actions.

Excellant post. You are correct! He would have been able to tell PRIOR to beating Ethen. It would have been obvious to him, by the severe time loss, and other symptoms.

 

[Calliope]

In Memory of Ethan Stacy Video
http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?...in_id=1010&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url

Here come the tears again.

Close your eyes,
Have no fear,
The monster's gone,
He's on the run and your daddy's here

 

[cluciano63]

So far, we don't know that he is using this defense, we have only heard about it from his relatives, right? They are saying he has multiple personalities? That might well be what he goes with, but the family is helping him by talking about it now, as they are making it seem as though it was a diagnosis, whether or not it was. Not to mention his ex-wife saying in court documents that he was mentally ill...
But none of that makes him legally insane, which has a very narrow definition so it shouldn't matter. The fact that he buried the boy's body after trying to make it so he couldn't be identified takes away from any possible defense that he did not know what he did was wrong.

 

[Calliope]

Actually I have alter personalities that go by "dizzy" and "Tired" and Silly. I know that normally when you expect name sof alters you expect the names that are most common "Sam, Troy, Justin etc" However at least in my case, when I fragmented and the alters came out, they took on there own names. So if they said they were Silly, then we would refere to that alter as being named "Silly" in therapy.

Its gennerally how they are feeling at the time, and what name they choose. Not all people with MPD have "excentric named alters" but in my case I do, and in the Therapy group that I go to, there are different people with mpd, with alters that are named "Satan", "Trouble" ETC.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, your posts have been great and helped me understand this much better. I really appreciate your input, as I'm sure the others here do too.

I guess I'm just convinced he IS a worthless pseudo-tough-guy punk.

 

[Cubby]

Ok I know I am multi posting here, However, I am just getting caught up.

People with MPD are not Crazy. And they do not need to be locked up UNLESS they are a danger to themselves or others. But a person with MPD can normally function in society, with a treament team.

Me for example. I am in intensive therapy, and I am still able to function, enough to hold a job. Don't get me wrong, it was not always like this, however with the thearpy that we ahve been undergoing its gotten alot easier.

I have had to learn how to communicate with all my parts, and we have had to learn to be cooperative, and learn to compromise.

But I want to make it clear that not all Multiples can do this. They need to be in intensive therapy and if they are nto willing to do this, then chances are they will never be able to function in todays society.

BTW I just have to state, don't believe EVERYTHING you saw in Sybil. It was a very very bad portration of MPD.

My apologies Ladybass, I was refering to NS's family knowing of his violent temper and not taking action if they felt he was a danger. I used a poor choice of words explaining that because I do not believe NS has DID or MPD. My choice of using the word 'sybil' was meant to be sarcastic and I apologize for it's use. It is offensive to those who do suffer from DID or MPD and as poor of a choice of words in the same manner someone would use the poor choice of wording for anyone with any kind of disability, or mental health issue. I hope I worded that ok, it's late, I can't sleep again but am kind of tired.

I did do a quick bit of reading at webmd? (IIRC) and the site did state some with a MPD or DID disorder could be violent either against themself or others.....

I appreciate your sharing this with us and the courage it took for you to do so.

Sorry again for my poor choice of words.

Cubby

 

[CharlestonGal]

I think even if NS is diagnosed with a verifiable DID it won't help him much with an insanity defense. An insanity defense requires that the accused was mentally ill to the extent he did not appreciate the wrongness or consequences of his crime. Even if one of NS's alters took over and committed this crime, that alter knew it was wrong - hence the coverup of the abuse and the hidden burial of the body. If there is an alter (which I firmly doubt) the alter KNEW what he was doing was wrong, and thus is not insane. Enormously evil, but not insane.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

My apologies Ladybass, I was refering to NS's family knowing of his violent temper and not taking action if they felt he was a danger. I used a poor choice of words explaining that because I do not believe NS has DID or MPD. My choice of using the word 'sybil' was meant to be sarcastic and I apologize for it's use. It is offensive to those who do suffer from DID or MPD and as poor of a choice of words in the same manner someone would use the poor choice of wording for anyone with any kind of disability, or mental health issue. I hope I worded that ok, it's late, I can't sleep again but am kind of tired.

I did do a quick bit of reading at webmd? (IIRC) and the site did state some with a MPD or DID disorder could be violent either against themself or others.....

I appreciate your sharing this with us and the courage it took for you to do so.

Sorry again for my poor choice of words.

Cubby

Its ok. Multiple personality disorder is difficult to understand, because of the stigma it once carried. So I try to correct and share what I know, to help people better understand the disorder.

As far as people with MPD becoming violent with themselves or others, Yes this can happen. I have some alters that self harm. Its part of how they deal with the emotional pain. Beleive me when I say that it is not fun to come out to 20 some stiches in your arm because one of your personalitys decided to cut.

There have been times in my therapy that I have wanted to "kill" a past abuser. It does happen, but thankfully I had a great treatment team, and they were able to help me refocus that anger into something more productive.

I have come across people who have MPD that are violent, however it is because of anger issues. It is NOT because they are MPD. Sure there are angry alters, there are violent alters, but usually with intensive therapy they are able to redirtect the anger and violence, and if not then that is the time where they will be admitted to the hospital for inpatient treatment.

Now I do not claim to know EVERY single thing about MPD. I am a person diagnosed with it, and I am still undergoing therapy. I still lose time, but it is not near as bad as when I was first diagnosed. When I was first diagnosed I would lose days, and not even realize it!

I also do not beleive that he is MPD. He would ahve known it prior to abusing Ethen. He would have lost time, had anxiety issues, found things in the house that he never bought, have other evidence of other personalities. So I strongly beleive that he figures that he can Fake MPD, and I bet that he will attempt to do just that during his evaluation.

However, it is not easy to fake MPD, and I certainly would not reccommened it. MPD is not something that I would wish on my worst enemy. It is not a fun disorder to have. Sure it helped me get through a horrible childhood by allowing me to "float" away during horrible abuse, but now, haveing to deal with all the repressed memories, flashbacks, body memories, and pain as well as process all the emotions from back then is not very pleasant. it is sometimes very difficult to just make it from day to day. I have currently been inpatient 4 differant times thus far, just dealing with these issues.

I am not intergrated, and that is a long way off. Integrated basically means the fusion of all the alters into one personality.

Back to Ethen. If he would have lived, he too probably would have had to have intensive therapy to deal with all the "alters" he created, I strongly beleive that he would have gotten through it, and been able to recover. But sadly he does not even have that chance anymore!

And with that I think I am going to try to get some sleep. I will be back if I can't.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I think even if NS is diagnosed with a verifiable DID it won't help him much with an insanity defense. An insanity defense requires that the accused was mentally ill to the extent he did not appreciate the wrongness or consequences of his crime. Even if one of NS's alters took over and committed this crime, that alter knew it was wrong - hence the coverup of the abuse and the hidden burial of the body. If there is an alter (which I firmly doubt) the alter KNEW what he was doing was wrong, and thus is not insane. Enormously evil, but not insane.

Yep from the first day that we as a system entered therapy we were always taught not to avoid taking responsibility for our actions because even if we "switch" and become other personalities, it is still our responsibility to know right from wrong. We cannot blame our diagnosis! Having MPD does not preclude us from obeying all laws!

 

[Calliope]

He was obviously so full of life and personality.

Safe in Daddy's arms:

 

[Calliope]

Its ok. Multiple personality disorder is difficult to understand, because of the stigma it once carried. So I try to correct and share what I know, to help people better understand the disorder.

As far as people with MPD becoming violent with themselves or others, Yes this can happen. I have some alters that self harm. Its part of how they deal with the emotional pain. Beleive me when I say that it is not fun to come out to 20 some stiches in your arm because one of your personalitys decided to cut.

There have been times in my therapy that I have wanted to "kill" a past abuser. It does happen, but thankfully I had a great treatment team, and they were able to help me refocus that anger into something more productive.

I have come across people who have MPD that are violent, however it is because of anger issues. It is NOT because they are MPD. Sure there are angry alters, there are violent alters, but usually with intensive therapy they are able to redirtect the anger and violence, and if not then that is the time where they will be admitted to the hospital for inpatient treatment.

Now I do not claim to know EVERY single thing about MPD. I am a person diagnosed with it, and I am still undergoing therapy. I still lose time, but it is not near as bad as when I was first diagnosed. When I was first diagnosed I would lose days, and not even realize it!

I also do not beleive that he is MPD. He would ahve known it prior to abusing Ethen. He would have lost time, had anxiety issues, found things in the house that he never bought, have other evidence of other personalities. So I strongly beleive that he figures that he can Fake MPD, and I bet that he will attempt to do just that during his evaluation.

However, it is not easy to fake MPD, and I certainly would not reccommened it. MPD is not something that I would wish on my worst enemy. It is not a fun disorder to have. Sure it helped me get through a horrible childhood by allowing me to "float" away during horrible abuse, but now, haveing to deal with all the repressed memories, flashbacks, body memories, and pain as well as process all the emotions from back then is not very pleasant. it is sometimes very difficult to just make it from day to day. I have currently been inpatient 4 differant times thus far, just dealing with these issues.

I am not intergrated, and that is a long way off. Integrated basically means the fusion of all the alters into one personality.

Back to Ethen. If he would have lived, he too probably would have had to have intensive therapy to deal with all the "alters" he created, I strongly beleive that he would have gotten through it, and been able to recover. But sadly he does not even have that chance anymore!

And with that I think I am going to try to get some sleep. I will be back if I can't.

Again, I want to thank you. You're a strong person and I admire you so much for fighting your way back from such horrible abuse.

I take some measure of comfort in knowing Ethan was loved and treasured by those around him. That he knew such love had to have made those last 10 days of his life even more devastating, in addition to his terror and pain, he had to have felt so alone... not that children become "used" to abuse, but to have such a sudden change from the loving arms of his father to being beaten and tortured by his mother and a man he didn't even know. I hope that makes sense and didn't offend anyone.