Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #16 *ARREST*

[stmarysmead]

No matter how it happened, or why it happened I find it absolutely heartbreaking that so much emphasis has been put on the SD/SB lifestyle she lived that its tarnished her legacy and is probably something her family would rather not continue to hear about. Especially when it really seems that it had absolutely nothing to do with this beautiful young ladies death.

It it must be remembered that this was not a secret life. ML was not only public about it but seemingly proud and encouraging others with advice. If, as some here have stated, it is considered “healthy and normal” among her peers at college, maybe her parents even knew.

Personally, I’d never say or do anything on the Internet .that I wouldn’t want my entire family and social circle to know. I don’t even send emails unless I could tolerate them being on the front page of the local paper.

We all take the a real chance with whatever activity we undertake online.

 

[Inthedetails]

I’m wondering if there were two trips to Logan Canyon, and the LE tracked him on the second?

Add it to the list of possibilities. Second trip to check in the site, perhaps - make sure it was hidden enough, not discovered, etc.?

I'm thinking he burned and buried here, thinking that would be the end of it. But when LE contacted him as the last person ML texted, he knew they would find her so moved her.

jmo

 

[Emi]

Jason Nguyen on Twitter

 

[SuziQ]

I heard around 9am-ish at a Smiths by his house in June 17th.

Ugh. I can't tell you how many times I bought gas there.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Well, it's about as easy to fracture the temporal bone as it is to fracture a rib (and many a person has taken many a punch to their ribs without fracture - usually needs to be a sharp, focused blow or a pretty good fall). The side of the head (which is what I believe they mentioned in this case) would be more like breaking a thigh bone. Even karate experts cannot, with their hands, easily break a thigh bone and it takes a big, muscular person a really good kick to do it.

If Suspect was sitting down in a car, I doubt he could have thrown a punch like that (although if she couldn't get out of the car and he threw many punches...maybe). Much more likely he would use a blunt instrument (which is why they said blunt force trauma). Many household objects or items could be used. Merely fracturing a skull will not create brain bleeding sufficient to cause death. The fact that the coroner says that the blow was strong enough to cause death (and skull fragments were found in two places) tells me that it is very unlikely it was merely a blow from his hand. That posits boxer skills and super human strength (which he obviously would have loved to claim having, but I do not think that's what happened).

They will probably find evidence on some object taken from his house, given how ridiculously stupid he was in hiding evidence.

"An average human skull can withstand 520 pounds of force before crushing. This human bone is stronger than steel and concrete of the same mass and is almost impossible to crush unless using a heavy object. A cubic inch of bone can bear a load of 19,000 pounds before crushing."

How Much Pressure Can the Human Skull Withstand?

 

[loganlocal]

Actually, in Utah, it's lethal injection or firing squad, so rope won't do the trick.

Guess they're going to need to get the needle.

Or the Winchester rifles.

Or both.

Y'know, just to be sure.

"Better safe than sorry," as they say.

JMO.

As a reminder, firing squad is only an option in Utah now if lethal injection drugs are "unavailable" - and in cases where the person convicted it before it was abolished (early 2000s).

Okay so with this new information I have two thoughts.
1. crime of passion...maybe thought they were something more than they were, maybe she ended things with him during the text message exchanges she gets in car he hits her, she dies and he panics
2. She knew something she wasn't supposed to know. Some secret he was afraid of getting out ( can't even begin to speculate what) and he lured her for the purpose of killing her.

Thoughts guys?

I actually think #2 is a possibility. I still think it was intended to be a consensual encounter (and haven't ruled out that ML was comfortable enough to turn off her phone on her own), but that AA had other (def premeditated) plans that became apparent once they were back at his house. But I think the zip ties were used after death (not burned that we know of) and maybe the rope was to restrain her before death (could be charred/burnt and still identified).

I've got a question hopefully you all more familiar with LE and all these processes might be able to answer. Would they be able to determine and if so would they share/(or have it come out during the trial) her time of death?

@yellowmoose My understanding is that it can often be determined forensically within about a 12 hour range, sometimes narrowed down further, but it depends on the circumstances such as other evidence, witnesses, condition of the remains, etc. Apologies for the graphic nature of the discussion as I know this is personal to you, but decomposition can usually lend some insight into time of death given factors like the climate, exposure, temperature, etc. I'm not sure how burning or partial burning would affect the ability to glean information this way. Peace to you as you continue to deal with this tragedy.

 

[Paulas88]

Okay - that makes more sense.

So a really rough timeline:

Mon, Jun 17 ML last seen 3am in park by Lyft driver
Thur, Jun 20:ML reported missing
Fri, Jun 21: Guest checks in his AirBNB
Date? LE releases photos of ML at airport
Date? LE announces they know who ML texted last and that person is cooperating
Tue, Jun 25: AA goes to Logan Canyon
Wed, Jun 26: Search warrant executed at AA's residence

Please correct/fill-in! I'm really surprised he moved the body days after the fire. Really didn't expect that.

jmo

Was he trying to hide evidence when/if he made a second trip to Logan Canyon on the 25th?

 

[10ofRods]

Warning: morbid details ahead; coroner report; burn pit

Burning a body to the point where muscle is charred is likely to result in the bones themselves being rather fragile. Did the DA say long bones were found? Those are the most likely to survive. Along with the skull, which is of course the part that provides the best identification.

We know a pitchfork could be involved. We know he burned for two consecutive days. The skull was probably broken up by that pitchfork, in his attempt to get more to burn (remembering that he was never successful at this). A coroner would be able to say which cracks in the skull occurred pre and post mortem, or at least be reasonably certain about that. The part of her skull with the death wound was transported to Logan Canyon, but he took no care to see if he had all parts of it, and obviously left behind many other fragments.

Burning the body in this manner would have reduced the odors that come with decomposition, giving him more time to figure out what to do with the body. The fact that a burned black object with buckles was found in the alley (I think) means that he may have been about to try what many other killers do, which is putting evidence into the trash. He may well have, for all we know. It's also much easier to disarticulate a burned body. But I'll bet that trash day wasn't soon enough for his purposes - once they came to his house, it wasn't long before they came back with a SW (less than 24 hours). He drove to the only "wilderness" place he knew - Logan Canyon.

I am glad the DA isn't delving into Kenzie's motivations and texts. It's irrelevant.

 

[al66pine]

Guesstimating ML’s Time of Death (Awaiting ME’s Autopsy Report w Accurate Info)

~ 3:00 am June 17, ML was alive, as wit’ed by Lyft driver dropping her at Hatch Park.

~9:00 am June 17 perp-AA bought gas can at Smiths store (a few min. from his home).


Some ppl here suggested ^ fixes her ToD by 9:00 am, within 6 hour frame, that she was already dead when he bought gas can. Agreeing that is likely IMO, but…

Is it poss AA bought gas can before he anticipated needing it to cover odor of burning remains? Maybe he didn’t think he would need gas for burning backpack, wheelie-bag, contents, etc.

Did AA restrain her at some/any time after arriving at his home, keep her restrained even past 9:00 am?

June 17 a.m., AA could have lit fire, started burning her belongings only while she was still alive.

AA could have continued whatever activities w living ML, until June 18, then started fire, killed her & tried to burn remains and used gas only then.

If so, her death could have been sometime June 18, many hours, perhaps a day after his gas can buy.

Not saying ^ is the sequence of events, merely mentally moving these jigsaw puzzle pieces around.

If I have misremembered above info, pls correct. TiA.

Also, IIRC, neighbors remembered burning odors both days. Anything more specific than - bad smell/stinky?

 

[ab01]

So bold of him to drive over 80 miles with a body in his car when he was just questioned regarding her disappearance. Really gives you an idea of his ego. JMO

Bold or in a panic after talking to LE

 

[MassGuy]

So bold of him to drive over 80 miles with a body in his car when he was just questioned regarding her disappearance. Really gives you an idea of his ego. JMO

You say “bold,” I’d add “stunningly stupid.”

“I’m going to be the last person to text a missing woman. I’m going to burn her remains in my own backyard, with the neighbors right there. I’m going to lie about knowing her, despite tremendous evidence to the contrary. I’m going to transport her burned body in my trunk, and drive 80 miles with law enforcement already on my tail.”

Genius.

 

[jens]

DBM

 

[ilovechili]

The trunk - now what if he got out of the car, and she was putting her luggage in - and he hit her and put her in the trunk and zip tied her right there? Pretty brazen but he probably scouted out the park before - and I do believe he is arrogant - quite possible scenario IMO. One I had not considered before.

Like probably many, I am not caught up, just reading. I am well aware though, watched the entire PC live, etc. Where is the trunk thought coming from? So the Lyft driver bugged out in seconds, and AA shut her phone off, zip tied her right there and stuffed her in the trunk? She was texting AA, coming into the park at like 2:58, phone shut off simultaneously at I think 2:59 but not before both phones ping there together, all within seconds basically for time... I have not even allowed for getting her luggage out... I mean for that to be true he must be super speedy or the Lyft driver saw more than we know...

And I haven’t caught up so ignore if already discussed...

Venmo showed a payment to Atty on the 25th. Would be interesting to know what was discussed.

Not surprisingly, pages moving fast so this will fall where it may. Didn't Venmo also show transactions that were mutual friends of he and her?

She was not killed in his car imo.

Still catching up...

 

[Inthedetails]

You say “bold,” I’d add “stunningly stupid.”

“I’m going to be the last person to text a missing woman. I’m going to burn her remains in my own backyard, with the neighbors right there. I’m going to lie about knowing her, despite tremendous evidence to the contrary. I’m going to transport her burned body in my trunk, and drive 80 miles with law enforcement already on my tail.”

Genius.

I honestly think he didn't know that phone records can be searched without the actual phone. It seems like he thought if he disabled her phone and then destroyed it, LE wouldn't know they had been texting. I think he thought if he burned and buried her, nobody would ever, ever find her.

It really looks like he doesn't have a clue that phone activity can be viewed without the actual phone. It's hard to think that someone would be that ignorant, but it really looks like he was.

jmo

 

[wary]

OK, NM. I thought it was way closer than that.

I bet you were thinking of his previous apartment, which was very near the park.

 

[loganlocal]

I don't understand why if LE was already surveilling him they didn't discover the body sooner? Any suggestions or explanations for this?

I also want to note that the skull fracture/scalp wound noted "would be" fatal, not that is WAS the CoD. It could have been post-mortem (as in part of an attack that resulted in other fatal and possibly more instantaneous or less painful injuries) and could have happened at any time (IMO) between 2:59 AM and 9:00 AM on June 17. I don't totally rule out the possibility that ML was alive after 9:00 AM but the gas can purchase (and him leaving at all if he had a live person captive) is pretty telling, IMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

The context of my comment about “extending the time,” was in relation to that time period being a day or so.

She was restrained for a reason, and that reason wasn’t to kill her instantly.

I’m convinced she made it into that house alive, and was likely dead by the time the first fire began.

Gotcha.' Now your comment makes more sense to me.

I agree that she made it alive into the house.

Otherwise, there would be no absolutely no reason for him to have taken her body back there and undertaken that incredibly stupid bonfire attempt...had she been killed in the car, he could have just driven her body directly to the Canyon and buried her then and there.

Clearly, as evidenced by the request AA made of the contractor, he had sick fantasies playing out in his head that involved his house as the locus.

I think he wanted to act out as much of his perverse fantasy as he could.
In order to do that, he needed to get ML into his house, not just his car.
He would have had both more control and more time in his house.

I still think there's a strong possibility that ML entered his house willingly, but that the moment they went inside, the monster unmasked himself.

JMO.

 

[wary]

Map says 8 minute drive, probably 7 minutes at 3am. 5 minutes not accounted for.

From 2:59 to 3:07?

 

[cryscrys]

Was he trying to hide evidence when/if he made a second trip to Logan Canyon on the 25th?

Interesting theory, are you saying maybe she was out there before the 25th but he didn't have his phone and wasn't tracked, and that he went BACK on the 25th to make sure she was covered or buried or whatever the case may be?

 

[cryscrys]

You say “bold,” I’d add “stunningly stupid.”

“I’m going to be the last person to text a missing woman. I’m going to burn her remains in my own backyard, with the neighbors right there. I’m going to lie about knowing her, despite tremendous evidence to the contrary. I’m going to transport her burned body in my trunk, and drive 80 miles with law enforcement already on my tail.”

Genius.

Friggin Unbelievable right?