Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[No.Power.Over.Me.Now]

I'm new here so maybe this is normal, but everyone seems to be nitpicking @rocket post about accidentally hurting her during sex and then panicking and killing her. I think people are doing it because they feel protective of ML and want to make sure her suspect takes all the blame. I get that. But if you step back, think about some random couple having some type of extreme sex where she accidentally gets hurt, he might want to kill her to keep her from reporting it. I didn't get the impression @rocket was trying to justify the action, just to contemplate possible motive. That's not what I think happened, but I think it is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[jillycat]

I'm new here so maybe this is normal, but everyone seems to be nitpicking @rockets post about accidentally hurting her during sex and then panicking and killing her. I think people are doing it because they feel protective of ML and want to make sure her suspect takes all the blame. I get that. But if you step back, think about some random couple having some type of extreme sex where she accidentally gets hurt, he might want to kill her to keep her from reporting it. I didn't get the impression @rocket was trying to justify the action, just to contemplate possible motive. That's not what I think happened, but I think it is not out of the realm of possibility.

I could embrace it if there wasn't such a violent assault on her that removed part of her scalp.

 

[ilovechili]

I get what you are saying, but I think this is more about some small comfort for some of the neighbors who inadvertently become victims of this monsters evil.

Maleah probably died at home and people left things there for her. A UK case Libby Squire probably died on a street or met her abductor there and there is a bench for her there and memorials. I agree that I think it also perhaps is a way of turning the last evil place into good by planting or watering something. It is no different than the people who want to raze the house of a murderer, making something that is a good thing live, and they hope that the new life/tree/plant takes over the evil that happened there.

Edited to clarify.

Charred black fabric, buckles and "other items"of evidentiary value. MOO

Salt Lake County DA: Formal charges filed, detail revealed in MacKenzie Lueck murder case | Gephardt Daily

Thank you, I appreciate it. Mostly I was wondering if the items were charred. I did not hear that in the PC, although I have read it here.

 

[DD8]

I am old too and have learned many things from this case that I had never heard of before.

You are never too old to learn new things! Some things we wish we hadn't wanted to know though!

 

[BradB]

Violent assault on her head screams of anger. There was a fight about something. Maybe about money. I'd be willing to bet it was about money. AA liked to talk a lot and claim a lot of things. There was a time he said money was no object, right? But most likely he was full of it. ML probably called him out and he snapped.

 

[wary]

Well, on a crime discussion board, you're going to have people who want to use the legal definition of terms.

jmo

That’s why I try to make a distinction between preplanning, which isn’t a legal term as far as I know, and premeditation, which is a legal term, and can really confuse people when it’s used casually.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Done

 

[SoCalGirl]

I could embrace it if there wasn't such a violent assault on her that removed part of her scalp.

I agree with his. If that happened, why not smother her? Blunt force on the side of her skull indicates anger and violence.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm about 700 posts behind, so this has probably already been discussed, but wouldn't the zip ties and rope melt/burn if he tied her hands behind her back before he burned her? IMO he had to have done that after she was already dead and burned.

Not if she was on her back in the fire. Keep in mind that he didn't even manage to burn all of her hair (which is really unusual, it's easy to do).

Also, those ties aren't going to completely disappear in heat. If you've ever looked in your own firepit if you tossed beverage rings (those plastic six-pack thingies) or zip ties in there - they will still be there, only a bit deformed, afterwards. Rope is hard to burn through (string, yes, but actual rope - it's going to take a while, not enough oxygen getting to the core of the rope for it to remain on fire). Since the rope was wrapped around something, the parts where it is not so exposed to oxygen aren't going to burn well. That being said, there are ways of making rope very flammable (but that would have to be pre-prepared).

People who use accelerants (gasoline) to start fires get a really big fire going, but as soon as the accelerant is exhausted, much of what they tried to burn is still there, just charred on the surface. This type of fire is good at deforming things (like suitcases) but will not burn up the evidence that the suitcase (or the zip tie) was there. Zip ties are actually pretty sturdy. Even plastic bottles don't completely disappear. Repeated applications of gasoline will reduce the items each time it is used...

 

[Lillymac]

This goes way back, but I can't find the info and I really don't know....where did LE get the info that ML went to the park by Lyft transport?

It seems that was reported early on..ty

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

Why wouldn’t he give them away as a set for free? Why separate. This guy seriously strange.

If they have evidentiary value, my guess it would have been intentional to split them up.

 

[MyBelle]

The most logical conclusion I came up with and I've discussed this with people far more experenced than me in certain departments is he really had no intentions on committing murder that morning which is why he went brain dead in covering everything up.

Something went down after the fact.

LE has the text messages. We haven't seen them.

But we do know AA was charged with aggravated kidnapping before ML's body was discovered. The DA wouldn't have filed kidnapping charges if those text messages show ML was willingly meeting up with AA and intended to go to his home.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

First, you don't know if it would be a first.

Secondly, I'll try to explain this one more time. One last time.

IMO, they were having rough sex, hence the bindings on her hands.
Erotic asphyxiation was employed.
She passed out and started to seize.
Thinking she was in the process of dying, he panicked.
OR
Thinking she would live through the seizure and report him for the asphyxiation, he panicked.

JMO

As you all know by now, I'm not very articulate. Sorry if I didn't explain myself well enough the three times I tried to get my opinion across.

I meant it would be the first time I have ever heard of someone hitting a person in the head with a hammer who is having a seizure during sex.
I'm not sure how he would explain the reasoning for that. If the sex was consensual, why would he worry that she would report him?

It's true that we don't really know whether he planned to kill her or not. Things may have gotten out of control and he may have snapped and ended up killing her in a violent rage.
If we only knew whether or not she entered the house voluntarily or not. The phone being turned off almost immediately after they made contact is suspicious, as well as the time and location that they met. I'm sure his intentions are clear in those text messages, though. Imo

 

[MyBelle]

I could get behind this theory, but why not just pick her up at the airport or have the Lyft take her to his place? The surrepticious meeting has me questioning his intent. At first, the fact that her phone turned off right away at the park also had me suspecting his intent; however, since the phone turn-off happened so quickly, I'm inclined to believe she turned it off herself.

I think as soon as she saw AA, she reached for her phone, he grabbed it and turned it off.

 

[tmar]

The most logical conclusion I came up with and I've discussed this with people far more experenced than me in certain departments is he really had no intentions on committing murder that morning which is why he went brain dead in covering everything up.

Something went down after the fact.

But there was premeditation, with not picking ML up at the airport, nor having her lift taken to his home.
Perhaps he wanted to act out his fantasies at home thinking ML may be willing.
Certainly, the covering up is ridiculous.
MOO.

 

[BradB]

Maybe he was lazy or had been drinking. Didnt want to pick her up. I'm giving this idiot the benefit of the doubt if he really did plan to murder her for days, he would have planned the aftermath. It's not like he was a full blown idiot. He wrote a book albeit poor one and he had some knowledge of how things work. I just believe something went down unexpectedly and he tried to cover his tracks. He was in panic mode. It doesnt lessen what he did by any means it just means he was a danger to society anyways because of his short fuse.

 

[ilovechili]

This goes way back, but I can't find the info and I really don't know....where did LE get the info that ML went to the park by Lyft transport?

It seems that was reported early on..ty

This is a great question. It is one of the first things we ever heard. We know they did not have a subpoena/warrant for her phone at the time.

Jmo.

ETA: I guess it is possible they could review video without a subpoena/warrant possibly and check Lyfts, Ubers, taxis...

 

[Inthedetails]

Maybe he was lazy or had been drinking. Didnt want to pick her up. I'm giving this idiot the benefit of the doubt if he really did plan to murder her for days, he would have planned the aftermath. It's not like he was a full blown idiot. He wrote a book albeit poor one and he had some knowledge of how things work. I just believe something went down unexpectedly and he tried to cover his tracks. He was in panic mode. It doesnt lessen what he did by any means it just means he was a danger to society anyways because of his short fuse.

I think he was antsy to live out a sexual fantasy....and the fantasy might not have included the job of clean-up afterward.

We all have fantasies, but I bet few of us think of reality "after the fact" like picking up clothes off the floor, going to the bathroom, seeing make-up smeared on your face....the unattractive side of "after fantasy." So, maybe in advance of the crime, his mind was racing on the acts that he found pleasurable. Then, in real life, he had a dead body to deal with.

Then again, I'm still considering that the fire and home burial were part of the fantasy. Maybe he got off knowing a nice Mormon girl was secretly buried in his back yard.

jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

This is a great question. It is one of the first things we ever heard. We know they did not have a subpoena for her phone at the time.

Jmo.

ETA: I guess it is possible they could review video without a subpoena possibly and check Lyfts, Ubers, taxis...

I think they checked and verified the address with the Lyft Company. I remember them making a statement about that in the very beginning. Imo

 

[1987]

I think he's been searching online for someone to hurt (and possibly film while doing it) and not being successful, the desire just kept building and building. I think the description of him being on a hunt is accurate.

jmo

IF there were cctv as cleaning lady said there may be recordings of what happened. so far AA hasn't been the brightest crayon in the box.