GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #1

[Bravo]

Just a technicality.....he had D.O. attached to his name; not M.D.

I stand corrected :seeya:

 

[Bravo]

does anyone know if this is normal for drowning victims? or was it internal bleeding?

I know the water is but I don't know about the bloody/frothy substance

 

[DomCasual]

I wonder if Damian's death really was a suicide.

I remember seeing an interview with Alexis and Rachel (the oldest daughters) where they seemed to say that Damian's death was definitely a suicide. I remember it, because they said something to the effect of, "Even though Damian took his own life, we feel my father, through his selfishness and manipulative nature, was complicit in it."

Also, again, if I remember correctly, Damian was in New York when he died. I can't find anything to back that up, but I remember seeing it or hearing it somewhere.

I have found a few videos of Damian, put up by his sisters after his death. They just make my heart hurt. He was a handsome kid, and he seemed so soft spoken. I sense a kindness and a pain in his voice and mannerisms that just breaks my heart. He posted this video to his Facebook wall, the day before his death (I apologize if I'm not allowed to post this): http://s47.photobucket.com/user/damianmacneill/media/Movie.mp4.html

I hope his mother was able to hold him in her arms, when they were reunited.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The brother was at law school in New York state at the time of his suicide. He put a plastic bag over his head and took an overdose of some type of pills. Apparently there was no question that it was a suicide. Which often means there was a note.

I think "Marty" screwed up on enough things to ensure a conviction.

-----------------
"If large volumes of water enter the lungs, blood is sent to those areas of the lungs that are not ventilated
with air. More alveoli are collapsed and damaged, more blood may enter the lungs, and the foam seen in
and out of the airways can have a pink or blood red appearance."

http://www.nysaccme.org/library/drowning_chapter.pdf

 

[scorekeeper]

I remember seeing an interview with Alexis and Rachel (the oldest daughters) where they seemed to say that Damian's death was definitely a suicide. I remember it, because they said something to the effect of, "Even though Damian took his own life, we feel my father, through his selfishness and manipulative nature, was complicit in it."

Also, again, if I remember correctly, Damian was in New York when he died. I can't find anything to back that up, but I remember seeing it or hearing it somewhere.

I have found a few videos of Damian, put up by his sisters after his death. They just make my heart hurt. He was a handsome kid, and he seemed so soft spoken. I sense a kindness and a pain in his voice and mannerisms that just breaks my heart. He posted this video to his Facebook wall, the day before his death (I apologize if I'm not allowed to post this): http://s47.photobucket.com/user/damianmacneill/media/Movie.mp4.html

I hope his mother was able to hold him in her arms, when they were reunited.

wow, DC.....so touching and telling

thank you for sharing

lease:

 

[Zuri]

It's fascinating to look at the dynamic of just how Marty manipulated others. From prescribing drugs as a Professional courtesy down to folks disposing of them etc. etc. There does IMO appear to be an influence over folks when M.D. is attached to your name. Not to mention the "charm" some sociopaths possess. It struck me today and it bothers me. It bothers me Marty provided Service to such a vulnerable population. Just sayin.....

I totally concur. My husband is an MD. People are more reverent to him because of it which I of course think is funny. No one defers to me if I say I am a nurse. Fortunately, my husband is neither a sociopath or vain. But people tend to listen to him because he is a doctor and very smart, even outside a medical setting. They are just not privy to the "I can't find the toothpaste" when all he has to do is move something. :floorlaugh:

 

[indicajane]

I finally finished watching the afternoon session for yesterday.

The cop that testified.....again issues with the clothes.....who knows and does it really matter?

Also the amount of liquid that was expelled from MM (around 3 to 4 cups first time; around 3 cups second time with some froth)......does this possibly mean she drowned or was held under water?

Was he asked if MM had mucus on her face? I didn't hear that question/answer if asked.

Then now also back to the issue of her being wet....also he thought MM's hair was soaked/wet. And her body was wet.

I have to believe (hope) that the Pros will tie everything up for us with a big red bow.

Thanks to all that posted regarding the afternoon session!

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

[Zuri]

I know the water is but I don't know about the bloody/frothy substance

Drowning victims typically have froth mixed with blood.
If you blow through a straw into a glass of liquid like milk or whatever, it makes bubbles or froth. As the air that is still in the lungs mixes with the water, it creates froth. The capillaries in the lungs start to Lyse and blood mixes with the water and air.

As for the areas of blood, I wonder if she had drains (JP drains). The drains are inserted during surgery and blood drains into the bulb. The bulb is detached and emptied and then re compressed to form a mild suction. If the bulbs somehow disconnect, the contents drain everywhere. Contents being sero-sanguinous bloody drainage. With a facelift, I would suspect she had several. HTH IMO

 

[Zuri]

I wonder how many medical malpractice lawsuits MM has had to defend in his time as a doctor.

 

[Zuri]

Someone up thread posted about the blood glucose levels being so high in the ER. IIRC, they said it was 600. That would be indicative of Dextrose 50 cc being given by the paramedics during CPR and not circulating because she was deceased for some time. I agree with TOP that Michelle was probably down for some time and chances for revival were slim to none upon presentation to the ER. JMV

 

[Sulamith]

Drowning victims typically have froth mixed with blood.
If you blow through a straw into a glass of liquid like milk or whatever, it makes bubbles or froth. As the air that is still in the lungs mixes with the water, it creates froth. The capillaries in the lungs start to Lyse and blood mixes with the water and air.

As for the areas of blood, I wonder if she had drains (JP drains). The drains are inserted during surgery and blood drains into the bulb. The bulb is detached and emptied and then re compressed to form a mild suction. If the bulbs somehow disconnect, the contents drain everywhere. Contents being sero-sanguinous bloody drainage. With a facelift, I would suspect she had several. HTH IMO

Michele was eight days post-op when she died. Do you think the drains would still be in then?

 

[Isabelle]

Michele was eight days post-op when she died. Do you think the drains would still be in then?

I wouldn't think she would have had drains inserted for a facelift. If she had one it would have probably been located in her neck area if any work had been done there and it may have been removed at time of discharge from the hospital.

 

[scorekeeper]

Someone up thread posted about the blood glucose levels being so high in the ER. IIRC, they said it was 600. That would be indicative of Dextrose 50 cc being given by the paramedics during CPR and not circulating because she was deceased for some time. I agree with TOP that Michelle was probably down for some time and chances for revival were slim to none upon presentation to the ER. JMV

yes, the ER doctor or someone mentioned her levels during testimony.

Isn't it SOP to give glucose in this situation. I mean they were trying every last ditch medical procedure/meds to revive her.

Yes, and I believe that the ER doctor thought Michele was deceased for possibly up to 30 minutes or so before she presented to ER.

 

[Bravo]

Drowning victims typically have froth mixed with blood.
If you blow through a straw into a glass of liquid like milk or whatever, it makes bubbles or froth. As the air that is still in the lungs mixes with the water, it creates froth. The capillaries in the lungs start to Lyse and blood mixes with the water and air.

As for the areas of blood, I wonder if she had drains (JP drains). The drains are inserted during surgery and blood drains into the bulb. The bulb is detached and emptied and then re compressed to form a mild suction. If the bulbs somehow disconnect, the contents drain everywhere. Contents being sero-sanguinous bloody drainage. With a facelift, I would suspect she had several. HTH IMO

Thanks so much. Yes I could make a guess about the froth but the blood completely stumped me :seeya:

 

[Bravo]

I totally concur. My husband is an MD. People are more reverent to him because of it which I of course think is funny. No one defers to me if I say I am a nurse. Fortunately, my husband is neither a sociopath or vain. But people tend to listen to him because he is a doctor and very smart, even outside a medical setting. They are just not privy to the "I can't find the toothpaste" when all he has to do is move something. :floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Bravo]

Good Day :seeya: Very important day today. What has been the most glaring piece of evidence thus far?

 

[Bravo]

For me it was the neighbor lady's testimony. While the science doesn't fit Marty's story and is very telling it was a very subtle yet glaring piece of testimony. When the neighbor lady shows up to help and Marty states he preferred to have a man help :banghead: Like who does that!!!! He of all people would know time is of the essence to save Michele. Unless of course you want to stretch out the time.

 

[Zuri]

I wouldn't think she would have had drains inserted for a facelift. If she had one it would have probably been located in her neck area if any work had been done there and it may have been removed at time of discharge from the hospital.

I worked in the Recovery Room for a while and some of the patients I took care of had drains and some didn't depending on what was done and the surgeon. The ones that did have JP drains had them removed at their first postoperative visit. I have no clue. I was speculating of possible reasons for areas of blood found on the carpet. Another thought I had was large bore IV insertion in the antecubital or femoral areas. Again another speculation. JMV

 

[popsicle]

Michele was eight days post-op when she died. Do you think the drains would still be in then?

Drains are typically removed a couple days after surgery...depends on how much fluid it is still collecting. I doubt she would have them in 8 days later, if she had them at all. jmo

 

[Schuby]

Morning Websleuths! I have been avoiding this thread so I wouldn't get sucked in on this one but you guys are sucking me (in a good way).