GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #3

[Bravo]

"If" Michele expelled water then it was water she inhaled and expelled. Which says to me she was still alive when she hit the water. Emesis is common but if there was water IMO she inhaled it.

 

[Bravo]

I really like Perper and respect his opinions. Even tho his Auntie dropped him on his head. In case anyone was wondering about it. (head shape)

 

[Apollo]

What? What? What? I missed it!!! :banghead::banghead:

Well you just HAVE to see it. I'm hoping Nancy wil replay it a billion times. If not, I'll find it for you when it's posted on Youtube later.

PS: GO SEAHAWKS!!!!

 

[bsk]

What? What? What? I missed it!!! :banghead::banghead:

It was a nasty snide remark he made at the end of his cross. We covered it earlier in this thread.

But he got his just a minute or two later when the judge let a zinger in that his cross had opened the door to.

 

[Isabelle]

OMG that is so true. I have been in codes where they were put in. It is a HUGE needle that goes through the bone and you can see the marrow on the end when it comes out the other side. We used them in trauma codes primarily when the patient needed fluids fast to bring their BP up. Eek.

Makes me lightheaded to think about it. Not sure I could do it!

 

[geevee]

The thing that stood out the most to me in the ME testimony was that ingested water can cause hemodilution. So the drug levels in Michelle's blood could have been HIGHER than what was obtained in the heart blood samples if I am understanding this correctly.

That's what I was thinking, he said about 20 - 22% increase during resusitative measures, that seems like a huge amount, 1/5 more drugs in her system possibly than the results showed? No way to know how much he gave her since he tossed all the remaining meds - and likely why he did that. I was wondering why the defense attny was trying to keep the doc talking about that, it wasn't going to further his point.

 

[Zuri]

I am a little concerned that all the talk about Michelle's heart condition will give jurors pause. Who was treating Michelle for her high blood pressure? And prescribing the Lisinopril?

 

[geevee]

I am a little concerned that all the talk about Michelle's heart condition will give jurors pause. Who was treating Michelle for her high blood pressure? And prescribing the Lisinopril?

I thought the girls testified that Martin was their only doctor.

 

[Zuri]

That's what I was thinking, he said about 20 - 22% increase during resusitative measures, that seems like a huge amount, 1/5 more drugs in her system possibly than the results showed? No way to know how much he gave her since he tossed all the remaining meds - and likely why he did that. I was wondering why the defense attny was trying to keep the doc talking about that, it wasn't going to further his point.

And to think that the IV fluids would have caused even more hemodilution... That part of the testimony was fascinating. I was answering some of the questions posed to the ME and I had earbuds in. My daughters were hearing me talk, cuss, exclaim etc. they asked me who I was talking to. My self of course :floorlaugh:

 

[Bravo]

K in my limited knowledge. If u inhale water it goes into the lungs. If u swallow water it goes to the stomach. Both could happen in a forced under the water circumstance. Unless you aspirate. Lordy????

 

[Zuri]

I thought the girls testified that Martin was their only doctor.

Figures. Her mild myocarditis could have been diagnosed on echocardiogram and there are blood tests markers if you test for them that could have given a better picture. Heart biopsies are not that common as they are invasive and risky. An echo would have been key. But then maybe he knew...

 

[Zuri]

K in my limited knowledge. If u inhale water it goes into the lungs. If u swallow water it goes to the stomach. Both could happen in a forced under the water circumstance. Unless you aspirate. Lordy????

All the above. You are correct. You know more than you think! Dr. Bravo in the house!

 

[Bravo]

All the above. You are correct. You know more than you think! Dr. Bravo in the house!

LOL Thank You

 

[Zuri]

The thing that I was confused about in the ME testimony was about the arrhythmia. Wouldn't drowning cause an arrhythmia since the lungs filled with water mixes with blood and deprives the heart of oxygen?

 

[Ann-Tx]

Regarding the State's Witness list, earlier today someone (I don't remember who) posted a link to a list dated 7/15/13.

Note: Dr. Joshua Perper is #21 on the list.

Here's the list:

Source:

http://thetrialdivas.com/2013/10/22/leaked-witness-list-for-state-in-martin-macneill-trial/
The trial divas.com

 

[Bravo]

Really this is a simple case. It was not caught in time. That opens the door to many questions and opinions from the experts. I know in my heart and my head Martin murdered his wife. Will the Jurors see it that way? Remains to be seen. I pray for the Family and Michele they do. If they don't they saw reasonable doubt. Yet I realize the case is not over. Either way in this case I will respect the Verdict.

 

[UCAKID]

It bugs me how Dr Lexicool is never called Doctor! She earned it! I dare not ask her age because I'm probably twice hers and haven't accomplished 0.1% what she has. Maybe it's a dialect/regional thing, but I love all those sisters answering with some version of, "Yes, that's correct." They're lovely, thanks, Mom.

 

[GaveltoGavel]

I'm having problems understanding the bent over position MM claimed Michele was in. It would seem to me that loss of consciousness would cause her to go completely limp. If she were standing at the side of the tub or leaning over to turn on water, I would expect she would have slammed her face or forehead into the floor of the tub. People don't gradually collapse when losing consciousness. It just seems that more of her body would have been in the tub with the fall.

I feel the same way. This bath tub part just doesn't make sense. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the bath tub didn't play any part in her death other than putting her in the tub and wetting her down to make it looked like she drowned.
I also think he took her pants off when Ada went for help and put them in the garage. Probably thought it would be more believably. I doubt very seriously if he was doing anything to help her while on the phone with 911. He was too busy backtracking before the neighbor arrived.

 

[Apollo]

I feel the same way. This bath tub part just doesn't make sense. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the bath tub didn't play any part in her death other than putting her in the tub and wetting her down to make it looked like she drowned.
I also think he took her pants off when Ada went for help and put them in the garage. Probably thought it would be more believably. I doubt very seriously if he was doing anything to help her while on the phone with 911. He was too busy backtracking before the neighbor arrived.

Those pants are a real mystery. Why did he take them off and what did he do with them? I suspect we'll never know unless he engages in some more pillow talk at some point.

 

[Bravo]

In hindsight. Little Ada. Sigh and bless her little heart. I do believe her Testimony. She describes her Mom in dark clothing. Yet says the water was brown. Given I think she saw her Mom with the upper clothing. In her mind she assumed she had bottoms on. If the water was colored she likely did not see a dark pant but merely thought she did. Based on what a child was trying to process given a horrific moment for her.