GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #4

[Leilei]

Defense gave Dr. P the wrong paperwork.

Oopsies.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

So, before he evaluated the medical evidence, Dr. Perper already told NG that Michelle was drowned? Hmm.....

 

[Isabelle]

Level of consciousness or LOC is key to this. You are correct in that the normal body response is to breathe. If the gag reflex is compromised and pt is deeply unconscious, struggle may be less likely. We read about very intoxicated people drowning, or aspirating into their lungs and dying. Yes comatose people still breathe, but I am not sure if a comatose patient could adequately protect their airway in these circumstances. Very good question. I will ask Dr. Zuri.

In a lobotomy, the frontal lobe is removed. Patients are generally not comatose. The gag reflex remains intact, so they would be able to protect their airway.

And with enough CNS depressant drugs on board, the brain doesn't care that carbon dioxide is climbing and no oxygen is coming in, until reflexes take over and agonal respiration occurs.

 

[Ann-Tx]

Tweets from FOX13 reporter Ben Winslow can be followed here:

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[my2sense]

Nicely said, Judge. I like him.

 

[popsicle]

But... I don't think MM had Michele's head in proper position, which means the water would not gush out at that time.

 

[Softail]

Dang.... He is being pretty rough with Dr. Perper!

ddsmiley:

 

[Chelly]

Dr P. paid $10,000 to $20,000 so far by the prosecution.

 

[Chelly]

Dr P was on Nancy Grace show.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Level of consciousness or LOC is key to this. You are correct in that the normal body response is to breathe. If the gag reflex is compromised and pt is deeply unconscious, struggle may be less likely. We read about very intoxicated people drowning, or aspirating into their lungs and dying. Yes comatose people still breathe, but I am not sure if a comatose patient could adequately protect their airway in these circumstances. Very good question. I will ask Dr. Zuri.

In a lobotomy, the frontal lobe is removed. Patients are generally not comatose. The gag reflex remains intact, so they would be able to protect their airway.

Thank you for helping me understand.

In the example I gave I didn't explain fully because I think everyone is a movie nut like me. The character had just been wheeled out from surgery back to the dorm room that he and a group of other patients lived in. He was out of it, almost drooling and did not recognize or acknowlege his good friend 'Chief'. Chief had planned on breaking out of the place with this man and when he saw him determined he would not leave him behind like that and smothered him to death. Even in that spaced out condition the man fought for the ability to breathe air.

PS It was a great movie. And I am totally against a man hitting a woman but in Nurse Rachett's case I make an exception.

 

[Chelly]

Dr Perper is getting confused.

 

[Chelly]

Some tap-dancing about water thrown up.

 

[MagicRose99]

bless you

 

[Zuri]

Thank you for helping me understand.

In the example I gave I didn't explain fully because I think everyone is a movie nut like me. The character had just been wheeled out from surgery back to the dorm room that he and a group of other patients lived in. He was out of it, almost drooling and did not recognize or acknowlege his good friend 'Chief'. Chief had planned on breaking out of the place with this man and when he saw him determined he would not leave him behind like that and smothered him to death. Even in that spaced out condition the man fought for the ability to breathe air.

PS It was a great movie. And I am totally against a man hitting a woman but in Nurse Rachett's case I make an exception.

Believe me, I am not an expert on any of this. I have only coded 2 drowning victims personally. Both were fresh water and did not make it. Both were severely intoxicated by blood alcohol levels. I am trying to make sense of the testimony and a lot of this is new to me.

I would have decked Nurse Ratchett too. :seeya:

 

[Bravo]

bless you

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: You heard that too :seeya:

 

[Softail]

I don't like the way Spencer is treating Dr. Perper. :snooty:

 

[Bayou Mistress]

I think Dr. Perper is not confused but obfuscating. LOL

 

[Bravo]

Well I guess this will go on the rest of the aft. :scared:

 

[NotMyselfNEMore]

Why would a transcript from a television show be relevant, particularly the comments of the host, and the limited response permitted by a guest at the discretion of a host? Are the show host comments really medical testimony?

 

[minor4th]

Dang phone call is interrupting my trial watching - I'm now watching Perper with the sound muted. Not so exciting