GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #9

[Bravo]

I think that is just his way of speech, a turn of phrase. The interviews were talking about how they were thinking through the process. There are, I think, 7 google news articles, be sure to watch the videos too, so you get a feel for the character, how and when the phrase was used, and his personal ways of expression. Let's not get excited about a typed sentence, and look at the whole.

Agree. They sat thru the weeks. Sat thru 11 hrs. after a long Court day. They got it right. I believe they know that.

 

[Bravo]

My favorite is the part about how Gypsy MUST love her mother, because she gave her her most prized possession, her daughter.

Gag. What a load of pretentious, revisionist-history BS. I bet Gypsy's mother laughed when she saw that.

What a benevolent choice it was for Gypsy to give up her daughter! I'm sure she SO wanted to keep her for herself! But she decided to give her as a gift to her mother. To quote Randy Ichabod Spencer, "That's what you're saying, right?"

Or, the other way you could look at it is, I don't know - maybe she saw her daughter as an unwanted piece of garbage, and her mother was kind, compassionate, and responsible enough to know that this poor baby deserved something more than Gypsy. Now, Gypsy gets to live this life that is free from the anchor of a child, while her mother "gets" to be a mother again in her sixties. Gypsy's daughter "gets" to go through her teen years with a primary caregiver that is approaching 80. All the while, Gypsy gets to play the seductress Bathsheba in her creepy fantasy reenactments.

You nailed it. One could see from the Interview Gypsy's Parents are lovely people. With heart. Gypsy no. I get that Mom's give up their Children so they can have a better life. I am glad this child is not being raised by a Sociopath. IMO.

 

[Hope4More]

Sadly, GW's mother is on record as saying she thought MM's letter was "lovely." She was thrilled with this suitor with bright white teeth who was a doctor and a lawyer. She seems intelligent and caring. I think she's one in a very long line of people, including emergency responders on the day of murder, who looking at MM saw a doctor and not the man.

 

[Hope4More]

LOL @ Eddie Freaking Haskell! Definitely!

That letter is quite the load from quite the Eddie!

I love best the irony of a man who has just murdered a mother of 8 writing-to anyone--about the honor and duties of motherhood.

 

[Bravo]

Sadly, GW's mother is on record as saying she thought MM's letter was "lovely." She was thrilled with this suitor with bright white teeth who was a doctor and a lawyer. She seems intelligent and caring. I think she's one in a very long line of people, including emergency responders on the day of murder, who looking at MM saw a doctor and not the man.

And we all know how charming Sociopaths can be. Yet they came to know the relationship was volatile.

 

[Bravo]

I love best the irony of a man who has just murdered a mother of 8 writing-to anyone--about the honor and duties of motherhood.

It truly is rich and speaks to the mindset.

 

[21merc7]

Eddie Haskell, oh my! :laughcry:

He was pouring it on thick, should be a new warning sign. :floorlaugh:

 

[21merc7]

Agree. They sat thru the weeks. Sat thru 11 hrs. after a long Court day. They got it right. I believe they know that.

Agreed. They got it right, they know they did, but it didn't hurt to look up all they didn't know about while having to make a decision no person on the planet wants to make. It is a burden on the soul. They can remove it now. Completely right, and I usually side for the defense.

 

[Hope4More]

I think that is just his way of speech, a turn of phrase. The interviews were talking about how they were thinking through the process. There are, I think, 7 google news articles, be sure to watch the videos too, so you get a feel for the character, how and when the phrase was used, and his personal ways of expression. Let's not get excited about a typed sentence, and look at the whole.

You're right about perspective, of course. I have read all the articles, haven't seen the videos- they eat up a lot of my data allowance.

My interest in jury rationale is increased this time because of what I still believe was an audacious move by pros to minimize ME findings. I don't agree with the defense attys who say this sets a precedent for jury vigilantism. I would be reassured, though, to hear more about jurirs weighed the evidence, and less about whether they thought he was mean or hard hearted.

 

[Bravo]

I have to say it seems the Sociopathic killers as of late seem to be a new breed of sorts???? Here we have McNeill admitting his Daughters would side with their Mother. He seemed resigned to the verdict. Yet all the destruction up to and the Murder. Then we have former Colonel Williams. Who did admit with a skilled interrogator his crimes. Yet in words to his wife was worried about his Cat. It's whack :banghead:

 

[21merc7]

You're right about perspective, of course. I have read all the articles, haven't seen the videos- they eat up a lot of my data allowance.

My interest in jury rationale is increased this time because of what I still believe was an audacious move by pros to minimize ME findings. I don't agree with the defense attys who say this sets a precedent for jury vigilantism. I would be reassured, though, to hear more about jurirs weighed the evidence, and less about whether they thought he was mean or hard hearted.

I can't remember if I read it or heard it in the videos, but the weighed they evidence. They didn't really care about the inmates, so knocked that off the list. Didn't care he was having an affair. Must have been in the videos.

Have to also keep in mind, the videos and the typed articles are only snipped portions of all that they really did say. I think that is why the videos were included, but they are still snipped.

I think they viewed it in a balanced and logical manner from all that I have read and listened to. They balanced the evidence, their feelings, and their thoughts, along with what the law allows. That is more than most juries seem to do these days. I've seen convictions come back in 15 minutes, probably so they can go home.

 

[21merc7]

I have to say it seems the Sociopathic killers as of late seem to be a new breed of sorts???? Here we have McNeill admitting his Daughters would side with their Mother. He seemed resigned to the verdict. Yet all the destruction up to and the Murder. Then we have former Colonel Williams. Who did admit with a skilled interrogator his crimes. Yet in words to his wife was worried about his Cat. It's whack :banghead:

Those 2 examples have crazy and some sense combined, but in a weird way. I wish science was ready to do living brain scans with some certainty so we could see what is going on in there. (They do some brain scans already on people with unusual issues like schizophrenia, stuttering, and other things, interesting stuff. Remember a youtube but can't remember what it was called. It was not in the U.S. I remember that.) ETA: Oh dear, maybe I don't want to know how my brain scan would differ from others! Maybe I should take it back.:scared:

 

[Bravo]

IMO the Jurors saw and concluded as we did. They put all the pieces of the puzzle together. As it should be.

 

[Bravo]

Those 2 examples have crazy and some sense combined, but in a weird way. I wish science was ready to do living brain scans with some certainty so we could see what is going on in there. (They do some brain scans already on people with unusual issues like schizophrenia, stuttering, and other things, interesting stuff. Remember a youtube but can't remember what it was called. It was not in the U.S. I remember that.)

Yes if we can step away and just look at the mindset and their rationale it is fascinating. I don't think there ever will be an answer. At least in my life time. My belief is Nature/Nurture. Sometimes one sometimes both. I work with Dual Diagnosis. I have clients who have been horribly abused with a heart of gold. Then others who take my head off to get to a box of chocolates. Go figure :scared:

 

[Bravo]

I'm sure your brain scan would be fine merc :floorlaugh:

 

[Hope4More]

IMO the Jurors saw and concluded as we did. They put all the pieces of the puzzle together. As it should be.

Probably so. An indication of nuanced and thoughtful deliberation: that they set inmates' testimony aside early on, thinking it too problematic tho likely at least partially true. Reaching that conclusion took critical thinking skill and an ability to be genuinely fair minded.

 

[DomCasual]

Sadly, GW's mother is on record as saying she thought MM's letter was "lovely." She was thrilled with this suitor with bright white teeth who was a doctor and a lawyer. She seems intelligent and caring. I think she's one in a very long line of people, including emergency responders on the day of murder, who looking at MM saw a doctor and not the man.

I guess when your daughter is a sociopath (her family's word, not mine), you are happy with even the smallest prick of light. It turns out, that light originated from the fires of hell.

 

[Bravo]

Probably so. An indication of nuanced and thoughtful deliberation: that they set inmates' testimony aside early on, thinking it too problematic tho likely at least partially true. Reaching that conclusion took critical thinking skill and an ability to be genuinely fair minded.

Yes I really believe that.

 

[Bravo]

I guess when your daughter is a sociopath (her family's word, not mine), you are happy with even the smallest prick of light. It turns out, that light originated from the fires of hell.

That it did. Yet I'm not sure she has "peaked" yet. Considering she is free.

 

[Hope4More]

Yes I really believe that.

I bet u sleep better at night than I do. . I have a mind that never gets tired of playing devils advocate.....