Found Deceased UT - REMAINS FOUND - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #11 *ARREST*

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  • #181
Hi Sleuthers, hope everyone is having (or had) a nice Saturday.

I saw some discussion a few pages back about the body/physical evidence, and i immediately remembered that last year i read a book by a forensic pathologist that had a few paragraphs discussing the science of burning a body.

I went back to my kindle and i'll be reposting the passages here, however I do want to first say 1) this may, very understandably, not be something ML's friends and family are interested in hearing about right now, so just a heads up and 2) i'm purposely leaving out a few things that i see as...hm...almost tips, for lack of a better term. I know the author did not intend for this as he is just stating facts, and the book is published and free for anyone to read, but I still personally do not feel comfortable putting out information on what works more efficiently to destroy a body through fire. Obviously none of us here are interested in aiding a criminal in concealing/destroying evidence and it would never be my intention to do so.

That being said, I think you may find these passages interesting. The book is called "Dissecting Death: Secrets of a Medical Examiner" by Frederick Zugibe.

"Nonforensic pathologists credit fire with a great deal more destructive power than it actually has, at least at the relatively low temperatures generated by a bonfire"

"..the body does not burn as easily as most people believe. Instead, the body resits the destructive forces of the fire with amazing durability, allowing the pathologist to make determinations from the remains."

These are the most important, IMO:

"It is only at the superhigh temperatures produced inside a crematorium, say, or at a steel smelting plant that fleshy matter is completely reduced to dust"

"what actually happens at such relatively low temperatures--around 1200 degrees F--is that instead of disintegrating, the corpses's flesh roasts much in the manner of, if you will forgive the gruesome analogy, meat on a backyard barbecue...burning flesh...does not destroy it. It cooks it, protects it, and most of all preserves it."

So, this makes me feel a lot better. Some stuff is destroyed of course, but if they had enough to determine the DNA was female, I'm confident they have more evidence than we may think. He got got.
 
  • #182
I

Im still not finding it was it removed?

did you go to 1 hour and 43 minutes? (not 1 minute and 43 seconds)

there is no interview because the friend did not want to be on camera - it is just the reporter talking about what the friend said
 
  • #183
I can't speak for Kenzie because we don't know what she did, but I do know that a huge part of SD/SB is thoroughly vetting the people you meet up with and making sure you the person isn't lying about who they are.
Although I would think that could be very difficult if the only way you know them is on the computer.
I believe this guy was pretending to be someone he wasn't. It seems to be a pattern for him. Imo
 
  • #184
yeah I tried to delete my comment but WS is acting up again
Yes, I'll have to apologize ahead of time, I think I answered you about 10 times with the same post. Hoping all the dups don't eventually show up.
 
  • #185
The murderer having a bonfire reminds me of the Kelsey Berreth case.
In the KB case the murderer had an audience for the fire, perhaps providing the creep with added satisfaction.
In this case, 'Remains Found': I am waiting for the same in the KB case.
MOO.
 
  • #186
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Yes, I'll have to apologize ahead of time, I think I answered you about 10 times with the same post. Hoping all the dups don't eventually show up.

yeah hoping my duplicates don't eventually post too lol
 
  • #189
Hi Sleuthers, hope everyone is having (or had) a nice Saturday.

I saw some discussion a few pages back about the body/physical evidence, and i immediately remembered that last year i read a book by a forensic pathologist that had a few paragraphs discussing the science of burning a body.

I went back to my kindle and i'll be reposting the passages here, however I do want to first say 1) this may, very understandably, not be something ML's friends and family are interested in hearing about right now, so just a heads up and 2) i'm purposely leaving out a few things that i see as...hm...almost tips, for lack of a better term. I know the author did not intend for this as he is just stating facts, and the book is published and free for anyone to read, but I still personally do not feel comfortable putting out information on what works more efficiently to destroy a body through fire. Obviously none of us here are interested in aiding a criminal in concealing/destroying evidence and it would never be my intention to do so.

That being said, I think you may find these passages interesting. The book is called "Dissecting Death: Secrets of a Medical Examiner" by Frederick Zugibe.

"Nonforensic pathologists credit fire with a great deal more destructive power than it actually has, at least at the relatively low temperatures generated by a bonfire"

"..the body does not burn as easily as most people believe. Instead, the body resits the destructive forces of the fire with amazing durability, allowing the pathologist to make determinations from the remains."

These are the most important, IMO:

"It is only at the superhigh temperatures produced inside a crematorium, say, or at a steel smelting plant that fleshy matter is completely reduced to dust"

"what actually happens at such relatively low temperatures--around 1200 degrees F--is that instead of disintegrating, the corpses's flesh roasts much in the manner of, if you will forgive the gruesome analogy, meat on a backyard barbecue...burning flesh...does not destroy it. It cooks it, protects it, and most of all preserves it."

So, this makes me feel a lot better. Some stuff is destroyed of course, but if they had enough to determine the DNA was female, I'm confident they have more evidence than we may think. He got got.
Exactly. If “tissue” survived, then logically, there should be a lot to find.

Whether they can determine cause of death remains to be seen.

Thanks for posting that.
 
  • #190
Yes, I'll have to apologize ahead of time, I think I answered you about 10 times with the same post. Hoping all the dups don't eventually show up.
Yeah, I tried to send a reply to one of your posts for about 20 minutes. I think it finally went through.
 
  • #191
and you can continue to believe she got into a complete stranger's car at 3a, without going home first. :)
I think after a flight that hour after a funeral once I crashed in my apt at 3am I would not be going out again to meet some guy in a park.
 
  • #192
Although I would think that could be very difficult if the only way you know them is on the computer.
I believe this guy was pretending to be someone he wasn't. It seems to be a pattern for him. Imo

If anyone could fool her, this guy could.

His roommates talk about how obsessed he was with his image, and based on what we do know about him, he could apparently be who he wanted to be.

Or atleast, deceive you about who he really was.
 
  • #193
This might be crazy - tell me if it is (I know you all will!)....but could reviews like that be code-words to BDSM people about the AirBNB?

Maybe I'm just spooked by all this, but who wants accommodations with dirt floors in the basement that are sound proof? BDSM might search listings for just such words to let them know what could happen in those rooms.

?? Am I thinking too hard?

jmo

I think anything is possible here. This case already is way off the weird and perverted grid.
 
  • #194
Thanks. So confusing. The reporter interviewed Kenzie's real life friend who said that Kenzie said something about someone she met through her lifestyle choice and the friend was worried for Kenzie? If so, I would hope so. I think her parents and everyone who knew her had some reservations about Kenzie meeting men over the age of 35 for an arrangement.

Did the reporter state that Kenzie's friend provided police with the name of the suspect? That seems to be the question - whether Kenzie knew the suspect before he murdered her, and whether Kenzie's friend knew that name before police published it. If not, it seems quite possible that Kenzie was just describing some of the known and common dangers associated with her lifestyle choice.

Nope.

Reporter encountered a man (shaken friend / SF) at the police station who reporter said had parked in the PD garage. SF approached reporter, and asked if POI had arrived as he wanted to look him in the eye.

SF also told reporter that he did not want to be identified, as he had also met ML "online."

SF alleged that ML had told him about AA, and he didn't have good feeling about him.

SF also told reporter that he had been in contact with LE since before AA's arrest.

For all we know, SF could have been one of her arrangements, married, or whatever who sought discrete "online" friendship with ML, and did not want to be identified.

No report that SF had ever met ML in person, or how long he knew ML.

IF SF story is credible, we will likely hear more from him at trial.

MOO
 
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Exactly. If “tissue” survived, then logically, there should be a lot to find.

Whether they can determine cause of death remains to be seen.

Thanks for posting that.
What about bone? The neighbors said he used gasoline as well. Wouldn’t it explode?
 
  • #198
Double creep factor: the guy had an ad for an Airbnb?

Imagine how many single women could have easily been killed...
 
  • #199
Sleuth them
It might not be that easy. This guy doesn't seem too bright, but apparently he knows a little about CT and if he's good at being deceitful I'm sure there are ways to be undetectable.
We don't even know if she knew his real name. Imo
 
  • #200
( Did everyone survive the maintenance shutdown? Felt like Y2K or something! :eek: It’s amazing how productive I am when the forum goes down! I got cleaning AND gardening stuff done!

Looking forward to catching up. :)

The forum seems to be running at lightning speed. Whatever update you guys did worked great!)

LOL!
You really didn't need to do all that housework.....it was up and running before noon EST ;).
 
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