VA - 12 Dead including shooter, VA Beach Municipal Center, 31 May 2019

[JnRyan]

Heard on radio he sent boss resignation letter friday morning.

Wbal radio

Yes. And his supervisor stating he was not facing any disciplinary action at the time.
Virginia Beach gunman gave 2 weeks notice Friday but was in 'good standing' in his job

 

[Elley Mae]

Virginia Beach gunman gave 2 weeks notice Friday but was in 'good standing' in his job

Not adding up, what about his violent altercation on city grounds, scuffles with employees?

Good standing?

Maybe what he did didn’t get reported, and he assumed it did.

There had to have been some kind of interactions w/ ppl all day loneg, not just the man in the bathroom.

 

[Elley Mae]

In response to a reporter's question, Hansen said the shooter had notified his chain of command of his intention to quit via email on Friday, hours before the shooting.

Virginia Beach gunman gave resignation before shooting, was in ‘good standing,’ authorities say

Officers arrived outside the building within two minutes of receiving a call of shots fired, the chief said. Minutes later, the officers who entered the building engaged in a “long gun battle” with the suspect. Cervera said the gunfight lasted 5 to 8 minutes and the number of rounds fired went into the double digits, though he couldn’t give specific numbers.

 

[JnRyan]

For those not familiar with the immediate area, the VB City Complex - pg 2 of the pdf.
https://www.vbgov.com/government/de...unicipal Map Rev 8-13-Final-Print-NoMarks.pdf

North Landing Road, Princess Anne Road, Nimmo Parkway and George Mason surround the main part of the complex. With the exception of the access lanes - Mattaponi, James Mason, Courthouse - it is all buildings and parking lots. Building 2 is where the shooting took place.

 

[margarita25]

Note says Virginia Beach shooter’s family sends condolences

 

[Jinkasaurus]

What can we learn and look for to prevent mass homicides?

RSBM

You might enjoy this article.

Inside the race to stop the next mass shooter

 

[JnRyan]

RSBM

You might enjoy this article.

Inside the race to stop the next mass shooter

Thanks!!! I wouldn't say I enjoy it, but I find it very interesting. Trying to ID who is a potential killer is tough. I worked with persons that everyone swore was going to go on a shooting rampage, but thankfully, none ever did. In most cases the supervisors either made jokes about it or tried to pretend it wasn't happening. But also strangely enough, one area supervisor did do something positive about one of the persons and the situation got better in their case. But that person was not a quiet loner and never appeared to be distressed.

Back to article. - it would be good if more of us in the public were aware of what to look for. It's not like the so-called psychology experts are on patrol and looking for this behavior. We co-workers, family and friends of the potential killers are the front line of defense.

 

[mickey2942]

Nice. You can be in "Good Standing" with HR, and still experience intense bullying at work. It is a systematic process done by supervision to make your life at work so intolerable that you quit. It is called "Constructive Discharge".

Basically, you were "fired". They didn't want you around, but trying to fire the employee without an EEO claim or harrassment is too difficult. So, it is progressive bullying. It is pervasive and destructive. And almost impossible to prove.

"Oh, we didn't ask you to that meeting, because we didn't want to burden you with irrelevant details about a project that you are not involved in.".

"No, you can't have that week off for vacation because others have asked for the same week prior to you.".

"Please re-do this report, it isn't exactly what we were expecting. The Excel spreadsheet isn't showing the data we need for the project.".

And on, and on...imagine this, daily, quantified by 25. For years.

 

[btfly547]

Nice. You can be in "Good Standing" with HR, and still experience intense bullying at work. It is a systematic process done by supervision to make your life at work so intolerable that you quit. It is called "Constructive Discharge".

Basically, you were "fired". They didn't want you around, but trying to fire the employee without an EEO claim or harrassment is too difficult. So, it is progressive bullying. It is pervasive and destructive. And almost impossible to prove.

"Oh, we didn't ask you to that meeting, because we didn't want to burden you with irrelevant details about a project that you are not involved in.".

"No, you can't have that week off for vacation because others have asked for the same week prior to you.".

"Please re-do this report, it isn't exactly what we were expecting. The Excel spreadsheet isn't showing the data we need for the project.".

And on, and on...imagine this, daily, quantified by 25. For years.

I dealt with this for about 6 months at one of my jobs from just one supervisor. I got depressed and wanted desperately to quit. She tried to make my life a living hell.

Not sure if this is what Craddock went through or not, and of course it's no excuse for murder, but it is enough to do some major emotional trauma and damage.

 

[mickey2942]

I dealt with this for about 6 months at one of my jobs from just one supervisor. I got depressed and wanted desperately to quit. She tried to make my life a living hell.

Not sure if this is what Craddock went through or not, and of course it's no excuse for murder, but it is enough to do some major emotional trauma and damage.

Right, it does not justify the shooting spree, but it does give another perspective. If Craddock was in this situation, he is completely powerless. Can't "sue" for wrongful termination. And each one of those situations I used as an example seem perfectly normal, and legitimate. Except, the "situations" are absolutely pervasive and destructive.

It is deliberate, and planned. And it does drive a person crazy. Most people find another job, quit, just decide it isn't worth it. But, maybe this powerlessness drove Craddock off the edge...if this happened to him. And no one will say anything.

 

[AC4RD]

Even those states that do restrict the capacity don't all agree. One state may state anything over 10 rounds for

Very true--a wilderness of differing rules, and it gets confusing trying to understand them all, Jn. When I was a kid, working in a convenience store during high school, it was illegal to sell rifle/pistol cartridges on Sunday morning, but shotgun shells were OK. (Maybe the lawmakers thought the ducks had it coming.) ;-) In my college years, at my parents' little vacation cabin, you had to drive to the next county to buy beer, back at home, if you were 18 you could get a bottle of rum at gas stations, and where I live now only the state is permitted to sell booze. If you pick 20 places you've got 25 different rules. How do we deal with the differences between places? Do we even want to, or should local opinion decide? If a gunman is holding off police by threatening to shoot himself, is that a hostage situation?
We've got way more questions than answers, and your post brings up a lot of them. I *will* state without any reservation or any modifiers that TV newspeople who call a semi-automatic firearm "an automatic" weapon should be kicked in the tail until they understand the difference. ;-)

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Back to article. - it would be good if more of us in the public were aware of what to look for. It's not like the so-called psychology experts are on patrol and looking for this behavior. We co-workers, family and friends of the potential killers are the front line of defense.

BBM

You are correct, in my opinion.

There are actually many mass shooting and/or bombing plots that get foiled before they happen. These cases, unfortunately, do not get as much media attention. I wish they would, because I think they would help plant seeds in the mind of the public that they can identify and take action when they see a potential warning sign.

Here is one article about a man who tipped of the FBI on his son:

Father of Adams man tipped off FBI on son's terror leanings - The Boston Globe

This is a good article about another case, in which a woman happened to see a young man walk behind her property and his behavior made her suspicious.

She called in a tip, and the kid had been planning a shooting and bombing. But the case becomes much more complex after that. The article discusses the issues around identifying these folks before they commit their crimes.

The massacre that didn't happen - CNN

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Nice. You can be in "Good Standing" with HR, and still experience intense bullying at work. It is a systematic process done by supervision to make your life at work so intolerable that you quit. It is called "Constructive Discharge".

Basically, you were "fired". They didn't want you around, but trying to fire the employee without an EEO claim or harrassment is too difficult. So, it is progressive bullying. It is pervasive and destructive. And almost impossible to prove.

"Oh, we didn't ask you to that meeting, because we didn't want to burden you with irrelevant details about a project that you are not involved in.".

"No, you can't have that week off for vacation because others have asked for the same week prior to you.".

"Please re-do this report, it isn't exactly what we were expecting. The Excel spreadsheet isn't showing the data we need for the project.".

And on, and on...imagine this, daily, quantified by 25. For years.

You're comment is so insightful. I don't know if this shooter experienced such things, but it seems to be a common factor in a lot of school/workplace shootings, besides psychosis. Suicide/homicide appears to be the only solution to some victims. Some have exhausted the chain of command and in my experience the victim of bullying is usually blamed. "They need to develop a thicker skin or toughen up." And they are shunned even more. This leads me to believe that we must focus on civility and inclusion in the schools and work places. Let's take care of the root of the problem. I believe this is one aspect we have control over.

 

[katydid23]

What did I miss? Did he ever say he was being bullied?

 

[Ray_of_hope]

What did I miss? Did he ever say he was being bullied?

I haven't heard of any bullying. I think we were just beginning to discuss some of the causes and what we can do to prevent some of these tragedies.

 

[human]

Very true--a wilderness of differing rules, and it gets confusing trying to understand them all, Jn. When I was a kid, working in a convenience store during high school, it was illegal to sell rifle/pistol cartridges on Sunday morning, but shotgun shells were OK. (Maybe the lawmakers thought the ducks had it coming.) ;-) In my college years, at my parents' little vacation cabin, you had to drive to the next county to buy beer, back at home, if you were 18 you could get a bottle of rum at gas stations, and where I live now only the state is permitted to sell booze. If you pick 20 places you've got 25 different rules. How do we deal with the differences between places? Do we even want to, or should local opinion decide? If a gunman is holding off police by threatening to shoot himself, is that a hostage situation?
We've got way more questions than answers, and your post brings up a lot of them. I *will* state without any reservation or any modifiers that TV newspeople who call a semi-automatic firearm "an automatic" weapon should be kicked in the tail until they understand the difference. ;-)

Semi automatics , as you know, can be made automatic very easily.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Don't post his ex-wife's name, please. Does anyone know if she's alive?

 

[JnRyan]

Semi automatics , as you know, can be made automatic very easily.

They can? How?

 

[katydid23]

I haven't heard of any bullying. I think we were just beginning to discuss some of the causes and what we can do to prevent some of these tragedies.

Ok. But it just feels like the victims are being trashed, when we assume that the kiler was a victim of bullying. It bothers me.

It is just as likely that he was a sociopath or a mean drunk, then it was that he was a victim of bullying or there was a lack of inclusion at his job. JMO

 

[Jax49]

Ok. But it just feels like the victims are being trashed, when we assume that the kiler was a victim of bullying. It bothers me.

It is just as likely that he was a sociopath or a mean drunk, then it was that he was a victim of bullying or there was a lack of inclusion at his job. JMO

BBM

Couldn't agree more. Can't imagine if the victims' families were to read here...smh.