VA - 6-YEAR-OLD in custody after shooting teacher, Newport News, Jan 2023 *mom charged* #2

[PapillonVert]

The article you linked is going to take me time to digest. I first read it and it just made me really angry.

Yeah, this article is a tough read.

From that article:
“Shah said removal and other punitive measures aren’t effective solutions because behavior in an escalated state in many cases is “involuntary,” and the result is that students can’t comprehend that the punishments are being meted out later to disincentivize them from the in-the-moment behavior.”

To me the point of removal isn’t just to disincentivize behavior but also to protect the other students. The person quoted here seems to miss that.

Also this shooting seems to have been planned, and therefore very voluntary, not “in-the-moment”. I know the child is only six, and it is hard to believe a six-year-old really could have done all this intentionally, but it seems he did. With all the warning signs prior to this incident, this child should not have been in the class at all but according to the person quoted here, removal from class isn’t the answer.

I also worry about what other kids learn from violent scenarios playing out in their classroom, especially when they see few / minimal consequences for the violence. They must feel scared of what could happen to them at school and that adults may not be able to protect them. And when they see teachers who experience violence in the classroom get blamed for that violence due to not catering to the individualized needs in an IEP, like in the case of the Arizona student mentioned in the article, I worry that kids learn that it’s OK to be violent. That Arizona case was really something - the child in that case really broke two adults’ glasses, and then the school got sued for suspending her.

This case has really got me thinking about gun violence in school and the origins of it. I previously thought access to guns was the primary issue (I still do) but I didn’t realize extent to which some school environments now seem almost to facilitate violence by failing to address it adequately.

I know there is a need for confidentiality due to the age of the shooter, but I really hope we get more information about the home life of this child, his particular disability, how he accessed the gun, and how his 6-year-old mind could have premeditated this. There is a lot to be learned from this case and I hope we all learn from it.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Does anyone know if Ms. Zwerner was the only first grade teacher at Richneck Elementary School? If not, why was the 6-year-old with serious behavioral issues placed in her class? At age 25, AZ had limited teaching experience - two or three years, at most. As a rookie, was the child placed in her class to see if she could handle him? The child had a reputation for being a discipline problem. Every effort should have been made to place him in a classroom where his needs could be met along with those of the other children. JMO

 

[Erutan]

Yeah, this article is a tough read.

From that article:
“Shah said removal and other punitive measures aren’t effective solutions because behavior in an escalated state in many cases is “involuntary,” and the result is that students can’t comprehend that the punishments are being meted out later to disincentivize them from the in-the-moment behavior.”

To me the point of removal isn’t just to disincentivize behavior but also to protect the other students. The person quoted here seems to miss that.

Also this shooting seems to have been planned, and therefore very voluntary, not “in-the-moment”. I know the child is only six, and it is hard to believe a six-year-old really could have done all this intentionally, but it seems he did. With all the warning signs prior to this incident, this child should not have been in the class at all but according to the person quoted here, removal from class isn’t the answer.

I also worry about what other kids learn from violent scenarios playing out in their classroom, especially when they see few / minimal consequences for the violence. They must feel scared of what could happen to them at school and that adults may not be able to protect them. And when they see teachers who experience violence in the classroom get blamed for that violence due to not catering to the individualized needs in an IEP, like in the case of the Arizona student mentioned in the article, I worry that kids learn that it’s OK to be violent. That Arizona case was really something - the child in that case really broke two adults’ glasses, and then the school got sued for suspending her.

This case has really got me thinking about gun violence in school and the origins of it. I previously thought access to guns was the primary issue (I still do) but I didn’t realize extent to which some school environments now seem almost to facilitate violence by failing to address it adequately.

I know there is a need for confidentiality due to the age of the shooter, but I really hope we get more information about the home life of this child, his particular disability, how he accessed the gun, and how his 6-year-old mind could have premeditated this. There is a lot to be learned from this case and I hope we all learn from it.

THIS ^^^^
Agreed 100 %.

 

[Hexe]

Yeah, this article is a tough read.

From that article:
“Shah said removal and other punitive measures aren’t effective solutions because behavior in an escalated state in many cases is “involuntary,” and the result is that students can’t comprehend that the punishments are being meted out later to disincentivize them from the in-the-moment behavior.”

To me the point of removal isn’t just to disincentivize behavior but also to protect the other students. The person quoted here seems to miss that.

Removal from the class can also help the child to calm down and regain the control over their emotions and behavior. Speaking both from my experience as a teacher and as an autistic person.

Also this shooting seems to have been planned, and therefore very voluntary, not “in-the-moment”. I know the child is only six, and it is hard to believe a six-year-old really could have done all this intentionally, but it seems he did. With all the warning signs prior to this incident, this child should not have been in the class at all but according to the person quoted here, removal from class isn’t the answer.

I am all for an education that helps to include children with disabilities in the classroom, but (and it should be absolutely clear for anyone with an ounce of a common sense) it should not happen at the expense of anyone's safety. This kid who repeatedly threatened and attacked others with shocking brutality is a walking threat for the safety of other students and teachers. He also requires very extensive psychological help no ",normal" primary school is able to provide. He should have been in a special, individual education. Not in the classroom.

 

[Simply Southern]

This child did not shoot anyone and the mother was charged. Hum...
Just across the bay from NN.

Norfolk mother charged after 6-year-old student brings handgun to Little Creek Elementary School

A mother in Norfolk has been charged after her 6-year-old student brought a handgun to Little Creek Elementary School Thursday.

www.wavy.com

When officers arrived, school administrators turned the handgun over to them. There were no injuries reported following the incident. After further investigation, police charged 35-year-old Letty M. Lopez with contributing to the delinquency of a minor and allowing access to a loaded firearm by children. She was released on a summons.

Skye Barnes told 10 On Your Side that her daughter is a classmate of the boy who brought the gun, and that the boy threatened to shoot her. Barnes said she learned her daughter was targeted by the boy from another mother late last night. She said she couldn’t get in touch with anyone from the school for more information until after school began the following day.
....
More than a month after the shooting at Richneck, there have been no charges filed. Newport News Police confirmed to WAVY this week that they have not yet turned the case over to the Commonwealth’s Attorney, who will determine whether or not to file any charges.

 

[Simply Southern]

Students passed around bullet on Newport News middle school grounds, school officials say

A spokesperson with the school division said a student found a bullet on school grounds, which was passed around to several other students.

www.13newsnow.com

A spokesperson with the school division, Michelle Price, said a student found a bullet on school grounds and that the bullet was passed around to several other students. It's unclear where exactly the student found the bullet.

Price said the administrators took "swift action" and increased metal detection scans and searches "out of an abundance of caution." No weapons were found at the school.

 

[shotgun09]

This child did not shot anyone and the mother was charged. Hum...
Just across the bay from NN.

Norfolk mother charged after 6-year-old student brings handgun to Little Creek Elementary School

A mother in Norfolk has been charged after her 6-year-old student brought a handgun to Little Creek Elementary School Thursday.

www.wavy.com

When officers arrived, school administrators turned the handgun over to them. There were no injuries reported following the incident. After further investigation, police charged 35-year-old Letty M. Lopez with contributing to the delinquency of a minor and allowing access to a loaded firearm by children. She was released on a summons.

Skye Barnes told 10 On Your Side that her daughter is a classmate of the boy who brought the gun, and that the boy threatened to shoot her. Barnes said she learned her daughter was targeted by the boy from another mother late last night. She said she couldn’t get in touch with anyone from the school for more information until after school began the following day.
....
More than a month after the shooting at Richneck, there have been no charges filed. Newport News Police confirmed to WAVY this week that they have not yet turned the case over to the Commonwealth’s Attorney, who will determine whether or not to file any charges.

Well then! I wonder why they haven't yet turned it over? Could be anything, but my suspicious cat mask is making faces. I suspect delays with the investigation due to 'someone' lawyering up and hindering movement.

It is also very possible that the boy's legal and custodial issues are still in limbo, causing delays as well. But, in the meantime this looks pretty bad for the Newport News community. I am thankful that some press/media are still following this case.

 

[Simply Southern]

Well then! I wonder why they haven't yet turned it over? Could be anything, but my suspicious cat mask is making faces. I suspect delays with the investigation due to 'someone' lawyering up and hindering movement.

It is also very possible that the boy's legal and custodial issues are still in limbo, causing delays as well. But, in the meantime this looks pretty bad for the Newport News community. I am thankful that some press/media are still following this case.

MOO...I think the SB, the former superintendent, the principal and many more have lawyered up.

I'm hoping the AG is involved. The ATF did search the home.

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1626767217797828614

School authorities say no one got hurt at Little Creek ES. Still, parents and neighbors are raising concerns over safety and communication from administrators. In our conversations, they also couldn't help but think of the January shooting at Richneck ES in Newport News.

 

[realanastasia]

Similar scenario here, closer to where I live, but as in the Norfolk case, the parent of a child who brought a gun to school has been charged. So the fact that the Richneck Elementary parent(s) have not yet been charged with anything after their child shot another person with the parents’ gun just boggles the mind.

Mom Charged After Son, 6, Brings Her Gun to School in Norristown, Police Say

A Montgomery County woman was arrested after police say her 6-year-old son brought her gun to his elementary school in Norristown, Pennsylvania.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

 

[10ofRods]

Does anyone know if Ms. Zwerner was the only first grade teacher at Richneck Elementary School? If not, why was the 6-year-old with serious behavioral issues placed in her class? At age 25, AZ had limited teaching experience - two or three years, at most. As a rookie, was the child placed in her class to see if she could handle him? The child had a reputation for being a discipline problem. Every effort should have been made to place him in a classroom where his needs could be met along with those of the other children. JMO

Maybe they "turfed" him. It happens in educational settings. She was very young to have been assigned such a difficult student (who, IMO, needed long term inpatient care, which of course is likely unavailable).

I don't know how many first grade teachers they had - but the school seems big enough that they might have had at least two. I'll try to check.

 

[fred&edna]

Any reporters got the inside-scoop on why we haven't seen charges in the Richneck Elementary case?? I'm tempted to email a few. 'Certainly appears there's a problem with the NN legal system... crooks and their cronies or what??

jmo

 

[mickey2942]

For at least the third time this year, a 6-year-old has brought a gun to school. 2 adults are now facing charges | CNN

A woman in Pennsylvania and a man in North Carolina were charged this week after a six-year-old in each case brought a gun to school, officials said, marking at least three times an elementary school student has brought a weapon to campus this year, including when a six-year-old allegedly shot...

www.cnn.com

This bothers me, no consistency in whether parents are charged or not, same crime...child brings gun to school.

 

[mickey2942]

Maybe they "turfed" him. It happens in educational settings. She was very young to have been assigned such a difficult student (who, IMO, needed long term inpatient care, which of course is likely unavailable).

I don't know how many first grade teachers they had - but the school seems big enough that they might have had at least two. I'll try to check.

Or, she wasn't the "favored" teacher. She is young, new. Maybe the other teacher knew the administration better, had been there longer.

I have seen administration "stack" classes with the worst kids, to the less favored teacher.

 

[10ofRods]

Or, she wasn't the "favored" teacher. She is young, new. Maybe the other teacher knew the administration better, had been there longer.

I have seen administration "stack" classes with the worst kids, to the less favored teacher.

Turfing is what happens when one teacher is preferred over another; lowest person on the totem pole ends up with the "sick kid."

It is important for all of us to realize that younger, less experienced people deserve fair treatment - and advice about what to do if they're immediately given the worst cases, the worst students, etc.

I hate that education has to work this way - there must be something better. IMO.

(Great to "see" you, btw).

 

[Lilibet]

Turfing is what happens when one teacher is preferred over another; lowest person on the totem pole ends up with the "sick kid."

It is important for all of us to realize that younger, less experienced people deserve fair treatment - and advice about what to do if they're immediately given the worst cases, the worst students, etc.

I hate that education has to work this way - there must be something better. IMO.

(Great to "see" you, btw).

At both of his schools my husband was low man on the totem pole in his grades. He was “turfed” often. But I’m not sure he was actually the less favored teacher. As “the male” fifth grade and later “the male” second grade teacher, apparently he was viewed as more able to handle the difficult kids than the women. He got reeeeeeallly tired of it! And he routinely had larger classes. He was also the favored teacher with kids and parents, and he got lots of kids whose parents requested him. So it was a mixed bag of disadvantages and advantages for him. And trying to teach while protecting your kids from the one or two difficult kids was not easy. Not really fair to anyone.

 

[airportwoman]

Does anyone know if Ms. Zwerner was the only first grade teacher at Richneck Elementary School? If not, why was the 6-year-old with serious behavioral issues placed in her class? At age 25, AZ had limited teaching experience - two or three years, at most. As a rookie, was the child placed in her class to see if she could handle him? The child had a reputation for being a discipline problem. Every effort should have been made to place him in a classroom where his needs could be met along with those of the other children. JMO

I've heard that there were more than 500 students at that school, so assuming it was a K-5 school, that would be about 90 students per grade, which would be at least 4 different classes in each grade.

 

[Hexe]

Does anyone know if Ms. Zwerner was the only first grade teacher at Richneck Elementary School? If not, why was the 6-year-old with serious behavioral issues placed in her class? At age 25, AZ had limited teaching experience - two or three years, at most. As a rookie, was the child placed in her class to see if she could handle him? The child had a reputation for being a discipline problem. Every effort should have been made to place him in a classroom where his needs could be met along with those of the other children. JMO

This child should have not been placed in Richneck Elementary at all. After he choked his kindergarten teacher it got blindingly clear there was no classroom nor teacher in that school able to meet his needs. This kid have been needing a specialist care in specialised place for a very long time.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Maybe they "turfed" him. It happens in educational settings. She was very young to have been assigned such a difficult student (who, IMO, needed long term inpatient care, which of course is likely unavailable).

I don't know how many first grade teachers they had - but the school seems big enough that they might have had at least two. I'll try to check.

I hadn't heard the practice called "turfing", but that is exactly what I meant. Had the 6-year-old child in question been deliberately assigned to AZ's class as a test to see if the young teacher could handle such an unruly child? It crossed my mind many times and, given that the school administration seemed to have little respect for Ms. Zwerner (and other staff), it may have been intentional. At the very least, AZ should have had a teacher's aide in the classroom whose primary responsibility would be monitoring the child who had serious behavioral issues and an "acute disability". JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

Maybe they "turfed" him. It happens in educational settings. She was very young to have been assigned such a difficult student (who, IMO, needed long term inpatient care, which of course is likely unavailable).

I don't know how many first grade teachers they had - but the school seems big enough that they might have had at least two. I'll try to check.

Richneck Elementary - Virginia School Quality Profiles

Virginia’s School Quality Profiles provide information about student achievement, college and career readiness, program completion, school safety, teacher quality and other topics of interest to parents and the general public for all Virginia public schools.

schoolquality.virginia.gov

Fall Membership by Grade​

​

Grade	2020-2021	2021-2022	2022-2023
Kindergarten	80	87	86
Grade 1	105	86	100
Grade 2	102	99	87
Grade 3	103	109	85
Grade 4	112	96	105
Grade 5	125	109	95
Total Students	627	586	558