VA- 6-YEAR-OLD is in custody after shooting teacher

[amaraya]

Virginia boy who shot teacher Abigail Zwerner told another he wanted to set her on fire: report

A 6-year-old who shot his teacher allegedly told another educator he wanted to light her on fire and watch her die, according to a report.

nypost.com

IMO <modsnip - speculation on specific mental health issues>. Since we know they won't put him in prison- what will they do with him?, oh he'll get counseling and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, this now child will grow into a dangerous adult, a very dangerous adult. Scary to even think about it. <modsnip - personalizing> he can be rehabilitated- I don't think so. I see a bad seed who will do more destruction in his life against others.

We don't know the nature of this child's disabilities and it would be a shame to label a child as a lost cause at such a young age.

 

[shotgun09]

Do we believe the Washington Post quotes regarding the warnings?? I do believe the reports. However, since no charges have been filed against school administrators and we haven't heard from the school attorney... could they be considered victims, too?! I assume none of them are family members of the shooter nor the teacher but should we give them the benefit of the doubt?

With respect to the school admin, it was mentioned fairly quickly I might add, that the "school administration staff" did NOT notify LE at all, regarding a possible gun on premises. I believe that may have been an established protocol that was ignored(MO),and LE was quick to point that fact out, per press conference, as well as released statements. Also, with the multiple comments made by the school staff and parents, it seems as if many protocols may not have been followed. So, Yeah...it kind of makes sense that charges may be pending for them as well.

In the meantime, nothing has really changed...for the school children and their parents, who may be extremely reluctant to return. The added super duper xray machine to be installed at Richneck first, does NOTHING but place a shiny golden costly bandaid on a super huge and vulnerable delicate wound.

 

[fred&edna]

There's no way a 6 year old understood "death"... acute disabilities or not.

There is both parental/caretaker responsibility and there's school responsibility. The public should know everything about a teacher being shot by a 6 year old in a public school.


jmo

 

[Rolypolyoly]

RSBM.



I respectfully disagree. He is only 6 and and hasn't reached the age of reason yet.

He could not have used that gun if it had not been there.

He may feel anger because of his diagnosis/disability and be making threats or pushing over furniture to express his anger, repeating things he's heard and seen from older kids or in media.

But I believe he can learn to better cope with his intense feelings with time, simply because he is currently only 6.

I think he wasn't receiving all of the services/help he needed. He should have had help while attending school or been at a special school. He should have been safe from weapons at home. IMO.

We can't just "write off" kids this young as being hopeless.

There is no way to know what would provide an alternative result, but there are many ways to create an environment that is safe for the student in question snd other students, which by going by comments in the mentioned articles, this was not.

The fact that this child had issues before in the school and that other children had to witness furniture thrown or whatnot is not acceptable for any of the kids.

The school could have provided a one on one to shadow the child if that was an option in their discussions, but after all of what we know that has happened, not doing anything or simply having the parents accompany the child in question is not nearly enough for the other children nor for this boy, whose needs were obvious not being met either.

My point was that sending him to another school is a 'solution' i have never heard used by any school, nor do i see the logic, unless it is a specialized school. In any case, school admin have really let down all involved, as their certainly are ways to deal with children who have special needs (at least in the states where i have taught)

Thank you both. I could not form a reasonable response to the first post that @ChatteringBirds quoted, so I sat on my hands lest I say something I might regret (I probably wouldn't, but I don't think the mods would be my friend).
Both of your posts are very welcome opinions, in my humble one.

 

[Stunned]

My father in law is a retired teacher and if anyone suggests they might go for teacher college or express they want to be a teacher, he does all in his power to disuade them. He says its too stressful, unappreciated, dangerous and poorly paid.

It is all that and wonderful, challenging and rewarding!

 

[shotgun09]

It is all that and wonderful, challenging and rewarding!

Like..." But wait! There's more!!! "
LOL
Bless all the teachers who are facing the wind in this storm.

 

[Laughing]

sorry.. i dont think any of what you stated can give an alternative result ...
especially with such a young age.. i very much doubt any specialist would announce him as ( dangerous) after whatever analysis
the teacher however could have refused to allow the kid in the class. if there is such a choice

bbm

No such choice, unless that teacher's union is stronger than I've ever even heard of.

Any other educators will a different experience? Change my mind, please.

A teacher declining/refusing a specific student is walking away from that job & probably that career.

The teachers just continue to fill out discipline referral forms & hope.

Classroom teachers are the front line of a free & appropriate public education -- and are imho hugely undervalued.

 

[Erutan]

oh he'll get counseling and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, this now child will grow into a dangerous adult, a very dangerous adult. Scary to even think about it. he can be rehabilitated- I don't think so. I see a bad seed who will do more destruction in his life against others.

Snipped for focus .

Possible intensive therapy and assessment, if he needs to have one on one personalized care, maybe a foster home that's trained to provide therapy ?
And they might need to keep an eye on him as he grows up to see if his behavior improves or worsens ?
What will this child be like at 12 yrs. old ?
16 ?

Six years old is quite young; but would anyone here want to have him come and live with them --as he is now -- in hopes of helping him ?
Serious questions .... but these are troubling actions , coming from a child of tender years.

I hope the teacher, A.Z., is healing physically and emotionally.
M00.

 

[amaraya]

It is all that and wonderful, challenging and rewarding!

That is true! Wouldn't and couldn't do anything else

 

[amaraya]

bbm

No such choice, unless that teacher's union is stronger than I've ever even heard of.

Any other educators will a different experience? Change my mind, please.

A teacher declining/refusing a specific student is walking away from that job & probably that career.

The teachers just continue to fill out discipline referral forms & hope.

Classroom teachers are the front line of a free & appropriate public education -- and are imho hugely undervalued.

Couldn't refuse a child but you could certainly request other staff (social worker, etc) to come into class or meet with student/parents. Normally, once a student gets physically violent in the classroom action should be taken immediately to ensure safety of other students (&staff). Ive never experienced otherwise.
I would also think that given that the child has disabilities, there would be other services involved, but it doesn't sound like many aspects were taken seriously, so i wonder also how these were addressed.

 

[Erutan]

There's no way a 6 year old understood "death"... acute disabilities or not.

There is both parental/caretaker responsibility and there's school responsibility. The public should know everything about a teacher being shot by a 6 year old in a public school.


jmo

Bbm.
Ita with entire post.
Esp. the bolded.

So many questions.

This was (imo) preventable from the moment he walked into the school building.
How was it that a backpack was searched and they missed a gun on this child ?
Where was it concealed ?
His pants waistband in the back ?
The front inside of his shirt, or again his waistband/belt ?
There is something so strange about this case !
My .02.

 

[not negotiable]

How can a 6yr old even know how to shoot a gun? Did he load it? Or was it already to fire? What are the parents saying? Who's fault is it?

 

[Arkay]

bbm

No such choice, unless that teacher's union is stronger than I've ever even heard of.

Any other educators will a different experience? Change my mind, please.

A teacher declining/refusing a specific student is walking away from that job & probably that career.

The teachers just continue to fill out discipline referral forms & hope.

Classroom teachers are the front line of a free & appropriate public education -- and are imho hugely undervalued.

Here in NYC we do indeed have a very strong teacher's union, the UFT.

However, if we refused to permit a child on our roster to enter our classroom we would have been charged with insubordination. We could file a grievance with the UFT and it would have been handled, but not necessarily in time to prevent this from happening.

Also we would have had to have kept a running log of all prior actions we had taken to document the concerns we had. Calling parents, having parents come to confer with us in person along with the child, contacting the guidance counselor and the SBST (School-Based Support Team), Dean referrals, meeting with the Assistant Principal and so on.

If we don't have time, date, and info about each incident and the steps we've taken, the UFT would not be able to protect the teacher and class.

 

[alex dvport]

bbm

No such choice, unless that teacher's union is stronger than I've ever even heard of.

Any other educators will a different experience? Change my mind, please.

A teacher declining/refusing a specific student is walking away from that job & probably that career.

The teachers just continue to fill out discipline referral forms & hope.

Classroom teachers are the front line of a free & appropriate public education -- and are imho hugely undervalued.

Virginia doesn’t have unions. I wish they did. They could advocate for policy changes to try to protect the students & staff.

 

[Simply Southern]

Virginia doesn’t have unions. I wish they did. They could advocate for policy changes to try to protect the students & staff.

Virginia does have a teachers union. A New York Post article upthread, spoke with the local union.

Advocating a High-Quality Public Education | Virginia Education Association

www.veanea.org

We’re a Union of more than 40,000 teachers and school support professionals working for the betterment of public education in the Commonwealth.​

 

[Laughing]

Virginia does have a teachers union. A New York Post article upthread, spoke with the local union.

Advocating a High-Quality Public Education | Virginia Education Association

www.veanea.org

We’re a Union of more than 40,000 teachers and school support professionals working for the betterment of public education in the Commonwealth.​

wonder if we will ever hear from this group about teacher reports of safety issues in this building....

 

[Simply Southern]

There's no way a 6 year old understood "death"... acute disabilities or not.

There is both parental/caretaker responsibility and there's school responsibility. The public should know everything about a teacher being shot by a 6 year old in a public school.


jmo

We may never know how the child obtained the gun, due to privacy for minors. I think we will learn little about the child's care or treatment. I do not think any information will be released about the teacher. To date she has not released a statement, nor has her family.

What I am 100% confident we will learn....

Who searched the book bag
The Administrator, that make the choice NOT to contact LE
Policies and Procedure that were NOT followed, previously, not just this incident, nor just this school, maybe all

The SAG will investigate to ensure laws, were not violated. The Code of Virginia clearly outlines responsibilities and authority for education.

Moo...

 

[IceIce9]

If his acute disability has lead to these consequences, perhaps school is not the place for him at this time. A medical facility with extensive treatment has to be the option of choice. Everyone at his school and neighbourhood have the right to be safe

I didn't get the impression the parents were either blaming his disability or them not being in the class that day, as the reason for the shooting. My impression was, they were trying to fill in some details the public wasn't aware of, or maybe they were answering questions that had actually been asked, in local circles. Namely, questions about gun safety, which they also addressed.

I will continue to give these parents the benefit of the doubt until or unless LE tells a different story.

Have they said why the gun was left where the child could get it? <modsnip: not victim friendly>

 

[shotgun09]

<modsnip: quoted post removed by poster>
I have a semi-educated guess why there have been no arrests.
Think of Brian Laundrie and his family's attorney. Those parents did not budge an inch, until a search warrant was issued. And that took some time. The family listened to their attorney, and followed his advice .

I have a feeling the same type of scenario is playing out here. Can you even imagine the red tape nightmare this would be, to get a search warrant of parents of a child they cannot name? Parents may or may not have remained silent, and they possibly denied LE access to the home, on the advice of their attorney.

Finding proper legal custody papers of the boy? Major red tape. I believe that LE will soon be, if not already in the home of the parents. In the mean time, we have received the " holiday Inn" version of the story from the family's attorney. Just sayin. MOO This is all speculation on my part.

So basically a delay in obtaining a proper and legal search warrant, due to the serious and alarming complexities of this case. JMOO
Peace

 

[fred&edna]

We may never know how the child obtained the gun, due to privacy for minors. I think we will learn little about the child's care or treatment. I do not think any information will be released about the teacher. To date she has not released a statement, nor has her family.

What I am 100% confident we will learn....

Who searched the book bag
The Administrator, that make the choice NOT to contact LE
Policies and Procedure that were NOT followed, previously, not just this incident, nor just this school, maybe all

The SAG will investigate to ensure laws, were not violated. The Code of Virginia clearly outlines responsibilities and authority for education.

Moo...

I understand privacy for a minor but does that automatically include his parents? I'm particularly interested in the legal aspect of their privacy... since they have an attorney.

ETA: He didn't obtain the gun from school. And, assuming his parents are adults (not minors themselves) why wouldn't the public be entitled to information?