VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[earthgurl]

Did the documentary say specifically that the results of Yellow's lie detector test were found to be inconclusive? If not, does anyone know where this has been mentioned? I may have missed it, but I thought the detectives were vague on the outcome.

From what I recall (I watched the new documentary yesterday) whatever Yellow's lie detector test showed, it wasn't enough to arrest (EDIT: or detain) him at the time.

 

[GreyPhantom]

I enjoyed his perspective. It helped to paint a picture of the scene.

I agree, I think he's just a bit of an awkward and eccentric guy who likes to travel alone.

And having a captive audience lol

 

[GreyPhantom]

From what I recall (I watched the new documentary yesterday) whatever Yellow's lie detector test showed, it wasn't enough to arrest EDIT: or detain him at the time.

Lie detector are never enough to arrest anyone. They are just an intimidation tool for law enforcement.

 

[earthgurl]

Lie detector are never enough to arrest anyone. They are just an intimidation tool for law enforcement.

Agreed. They're good for making a suspect sweat enough to confess on their own or slip up but that's about as far as their usefulness goes. They can't be used in court.

 

[Danaya]

From what I recall (I watched the new documentary yesterday) whatever Yellow's lie detector test showed, it wasn't enough to arrest him at the time.

I just want to be clear on if the detectives mentioned the results specifically, because I could've sworn they left that part out.

 

[lebvidox]

<modsnip - bickering>

The photos were pre-printed and displayed in a gallery on the ship where passengers could go, find their photos, and take them (I'm unsure if they had to pay or not). When Amy and her mom went to get their photos, the pictures with Amy were not there despite the photographer knowing they had been printed and displayed. EDIT: Amy's photos were the only ones missing. So its not that the photographer recognized her specifically so much as he knew that he had printed all the photos from the first day on the ship and hers were the only ones missing.
MOO. <modsnip - bickering>

I apologize I'm misinformed. I was basing myself off in some other comment who phrased it like this:

"In the documentary it is mentioned that he first took pictures of her and then said, "Now let's get some of you and your boyfriend", meaning Brad. Amy told him "That's not my boyfriend, that's my baby brother!". The photographer recognized Amy, according to her mother, when they walked into the gallery to get the photos. He went right to the spot he had put her pictures and started looking. When he couldn't find them, he asked her if anyone in her group might have gotten them. They had not. He found it very odd. Her mother then asks him if he can retake them and he does. That's the story they told in the doc."

Going by your version, there were plenty of pictures and it was up to any passenger to find their own, and they didn't find Amy's photos, and the photographer 100% recognized her and went to the gallery to the place where her pictures had been placed (was he the one placing them there?). Then he didn't find it in that spot and took some other ones. No indication whatsoever that no other 'physical pictures' had been taken away or were missing. Plenty of people just never even go to those galleries looking for them.

 

[earthgurl]

Well, to be fair, nobody gets arrested based on lie detector results alone. It's an investigative tool, but doesn't hold up in court.

I just want to be clear on if the detectives mentioned the results specifically, because I could've sworn they left that part out.

Oh, I know. I was just trying to relay what they had said in the documentary. I'll have to go back and check but I'm pretty sure they said that he either passed the test or it was inconclusive so they didn't pursue him further at the time. I got the impression that had they detected deception during the test they would have looked into him much further back in 1998.

 

[Quill]

I apologize I'm misinformed. I was basing myself off in some other comment who phrased it like this:

"In the documentary it is mentioned that he first took pictures of her and then said, "Now let's get some of you and your boyfriend", meaning Brad. Amy told him "That's not my boyfriend, that's my baby brother!". The photographer recognized Amy, according to her mother, when they walked into the gallery to get the photos. He went right to the spot he had put her pictures and started looking. When he couldn't find them, he asked her if anyone in her group might have gotten them. They had not. He found it very odd. Her mother then asks him if he can retake them and he does. That's the story they told in the doc."

Going by your version, there were plenty of pictures and it was up to any passenger to find their own, and they didn't find Amy's photos, and the photographer 100% recognized her and went to the gallery to the place where her pictures had been placed (was he the one placing them there?). Then he didn't find it in that spot and took some other ones. No indication whatsoever that no other 'physical pictures' had been taken away or were missing. Plenty of people just never even go to those galleries looking for them.

That was me you quoted. I am describing in detail what was conveyed in the documentary. The gallery, as I called it, is what Amy's mother called it and the documentary showed images of what a cruise ship photo gallery would look like. The photos are all displayed. The photographer was the one who had put the photos out and when he saw Amy and Iva come in, he recognized her and went to the spot where he had remembered placing her photos. I believe that your confusion could be easily solved by watching the doc. My description is accurate.

 

[earthgurl]

I apologize I'm misinformed. I was basing myself off in some other comment who phrased it like this:

"In the documentary it is mentioned that he first took pictures of her and then said, "Now let's get some of you and your boyfriend", meaning Brad. Amy told him "That's not my boyfriend, that's my baby brother!". The photographer recognized Amy, according to her mother, when they walked into the gallery to get the photos. He went right to the spot he had put her pictures and started looking. When he couldn't find them, he asked her if anyone in her group might have gotten them. They had not. He found it very odd. Her mother then asks him if he can retake them and he does. That's the story they told in the doc."

Going by your version, there were plenty of pictures and it was up to any passenger to find their own, and they didn't find Amy's photos, and the photographer 100% recognized her and went to the gallery to the place where her pictures had been placed (was he the one placing them there?). Then he didn't find it in that spot and took some other ones. No indication whatsoever that no other 'physical pictures' had been taken away or were missing. Plenty of people just never even go to those galleries looking for them.

Yes. He knew he had printed up the photos and when they weren't there, he offered to reprint them for Amy and her mother. I don't believe any other photos were missing outside of ones that had been purchased by other passengers of themselves. Her photos were missing and it was considered odd by the photographer.

 

[lebvidox]

<modsnip - bickering>

The key takeaway is that only her pictures were taken by somebody with the access to remove them from the gallery.

You know, I've been following this case since the days where people were trying to establish a 'sexual link' between Amy and her brother because they took a picture in the ship holding hands. And I've always said this would be the sort of 'persnickety detail' that people blew out of proportion.

Those cruise photographers follow you around and put a camera in your face and ask you to pose like this, like that... Like prom photographers and such. I don't see anything nefarious in Amy's relationship with her brother, precisely if we take into account the realistic circumstances of such interactions.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume Amy and her brother CHOSE to pose for this picture in this particular way. That was the photographer's direction. Just I don't think it's reasonable to assume their printed pictures had been taken from the gallery for more nefarious purposes.

 

[lebvidox]

That was me you quoted. I am describing in detail what was conveyed in the documentary. The gallery, as I called it, is what Amy's mother called it and the documentary showed images of what a cruise ship photo gallery would look like. The photos are all displayed. The photographer was the one who had put the photos out and when he saw Amy and Iva come in, he recognized her and went to the spot where he had remembered placing her photos. I believe that your confusion could be easily solved by watching the doc. My description is accurate.

This other person had said the photos had been reprinted, you had said the photographer was asked to 'retake' them. I wasn't saying your description was inaccurate, I was pointing out the different information I was getting.

 

[earthgurl]

You know, I've been following this case since the days where people were trying to establish a 'sexual link' between Amy and her brother because they took a picture in the ship holding hands. And I've always said this would be the sort of 'persnickety detail' that people blew out of proportion.

Those cruise photographers follow you around and put a camera in your face and ask you to pose like this, like that... Like prom photographers and such. I don't see anything nefarious in Amy's relationship with her brother, precisely if we take into account the realistic circumstances of such interactions.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume Amy and her brother CHOSE to pose for this picture in this particular way. That was the photographer's direction. Just I don't think it's reasonable to assume their printed pictures had been taken from the gallery for more nefarious purposes.

<modsnip - personalizing>

The photos being missing, in and of itself, is not nefarious. However, paired with her disappearance, the waiters taking unusual interest in her, Yellow's daughter talking about her mother finding a bunch of cruise ship photos of women in one of his duffle bags, etc., it becomes potentially significant and merits discussion.

 

[lebvidox]

<modsnip - personalizing>

The photos being missing, in and of itself, is not nefarious. However, paired with her disappearance, the waiters taking unusual interest in her, Yellow's daughter talking about her mother finding a bunch of cruise ship photos of women in one of his duffle bags, etc., it becomes potentially significant and merits discussion.

The photos weren't missing. The photos weren't found by this person in the place they thought they were displayed, and that's all assuming the photographer interacted with Amy, remembered her, printed the photos himself, and arranged in the gallery himself.

Anyone who's ever been at a tourist attraction knows there will be photographers taking your picture; they'll be in display when you're leaving. You can buy it if you want. Plenty of people never bother and those pictures are discarded so new, more recent pictures are displayed. The suggestion that only Amy Bradley's printed photos were 'missing' can't possibly be established.

 

[earthgurl]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I think the most interesting tidbit we learned from the new documentary was the IP addresses. I'd love to hear more people discuss and theorize regarding this.

The IP information is what took me from thinking Amy was long deceased to believing she could possibly still be alive.

 

[Quill]

This other person had said the photos had been reprinted, you had said the photographer was asked to 'retake' them. I wasn't saying your description was inaccurate, I was pointing out the different information I was getting.

Watch the documentary. Pretty sure Iva said "retake". It confused me at the moment because I am quite sure they were reprinted, but I am going off of what I heard. If I listened to it again, maybe I would hear "reprint". I am relaying what I remember. It's a small detail. To add, my mention of the photographer asking her to take a picture with her boyfriend had no intention of casting any type of nefarious relationship between the two. It is literally the story that the parents and the brother told on the doc. They laughed as they told it. Again, just watch it. It'll clear all of this up for you.

 

[lebvidox]

Watch the documentary. Pretty sure Iva said "retake". It confused me at the moment because I am quite sure they were reprinted, but I am going off of what I heard. If I listened to it again, maybe I would hear "reprint". I am relaying what I remember. It's a small detail. To add, my mention of the photographer asking her to take a picture with her boyfriend had no intention of casting any type of nefarious relationship between the two. It is literally the story that the parents and the brother told on the doc. They laughed as they told it. Again, just watch it. It'll clear all of this up for you.

I understand. They might have been reprinted (it would make more sense to me, and that would just be the photographer getting confused - if the guy thought another person in their party could have gotten the photos, he couldn't be the only one there to keep an eye on everything).

Regarding her brother, I was just bringing up past theories, not even addressed in the documentary, that Amy's picture with her brother could suggest they were too close for comfort. I never took any of this seriously. That's the direction those cruise photographers will give some random people - they're after a particular kind of pose etc.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

I have followed this case albeit not super closely from the beginning.
I was always split on accident or foul play
I watched Netflix last night and have a few thoughts banging around in my head -

- where did Amy put her room key when she returned and was there when her dad discovered she was missing? It could have been on her person, in her pocket etc and the key being missing could fit into both the fall from the balcony or her leaving her room with it narratives

- her dad says that the yellow shirt was found draped on a chair. And that she may have changed her clothes before heading out. And her mother specifically calls it a “yellow polo” and that she had been wearing it the night before but in the footage of her dancing at the disco the shirt is not a polo. It is a white or light coloured t shirt. Crewneck and fitted. Not a polo style shirt

- her sandals left on the balcony has always bothered me. As does the patio door left open a few inches. That is usually not done on a Caribbean cruise. The air conditioning is usually on in the room and the outside is hot and humid. Within minutes that heat and humidity would have come into the room and made it uncomfortable for those sleeping. There is something about it being left open that is odd. I’ve heard that she didn’t close it because she didn’t want to wake her family yet Brad closed it when he went to bed and they both opened and closed it to get onto the balcony to chat so it couldn’t have been that bothersome

- the stateroom neighbour. Yes he’s an odd duck. But he says that he is curious and chatty by nature and his routine was usually coming back to his room late after the disco/casino and sitting on his balcony chilling. He says he had chatted to Amy previously through/over the partition
He says he got back to his room on that particular night in the early AM yet he didn’t sit out on the balcony on that particular occasion? Amy and Brad chatting on the balcony would have been heard by him if he had. He alludes to hearing rumours of “people saying things like she fell trying to climb over” and the other side neighbours to his room said that they heard him talking to someone and that his tv was playing excessively loudly during this timeframe.

-Yellow’s key card indicated he entered his room at 3:30 and he answered the ship officers phone-call to his room at 7am.
We don’t know if he exited and entered again before this.
He continued to work on the ship for another 2 years so until 2000.
The Carmichael eyewitness puts him as one of the men on the beach with Amy in Curacao a few months after Amy’s disappearance. The cruise ship and authorities should know if he was onboard, at another port of call or docked in Curacao on that particular date.

-I don’t think crew members are necessarily off loading musical instruments, luggage and equipment carts at ports of call. Everything is mostly kept on the ship until it returns to the final disembarkation port. I would think crew lugging stuff off would be noticeable and out of the ordinary particularly on this day when Amy’s disappearance was signaled quickly.

-the other girls pictured on the sex worker website. Are they all trafficked and held against their will? Surely their pictures being made public because of this case means that some of them were identified.
What was their fate? Are they all missing and presumed now murdered women? How did they get there? Have any of them been freed? Or is Amy the presumed outlier?

I really want to believe that Amy is somehow alive with children somewhere and my heart breaks for her parents and her brother.
I think despite watching the documentary I am still of the belief that there was an accidental fall or something tragically happened out on the balcony

 

[maamager]

after watching the doc, i can firmly say i still have no strong opinion on what happened
my heart breaks for this family!

 

[lebvidox]

I have followed this case albeit not super closely from the beginning.
I was always split on accident or foul play
I watched Netflix last night and have a few thoughts banging around in my head -

- where did Amy put her room key when she returned and was there when her dad discovered she was missing? It could have been on her person, in her pocket etc and the key being missing could fit into both the fall from the balcony or her leaving her room with it narratives

- her dad says that the yellow shirt was found draped on a chair. And that she may have changed her clothes before heading out. And her mother specifically calls it a “yellow polo” and that she had been wearing it the night before but in the footage of her dancing at the disco the shirt is not a polo. It is a white or light coloured t shirt. Crewneck and fitted. Not a polo style shirt

- her sandals left on the balcony has always bothered me. As does the patio door left open a few inches. That is usually not done on a Caribbean cruise. The air conditioning is usually on in the room and the outside is hot and humid. Within minutes that heat and humidity would have come into the room and made it uncomfortable for those sleeping. There is something about it being left open that is odd. I’ve heard that she didn’t close it because she didn’t want to wake her family yet Brad closed it when he went to bed and they both opened and closed it to get onto the balcony to chat so it couldn’t have been that bothersome

- the stateroom neighbour. Yes he’s an odd duck. But he says that he is curious and chatty by nature and his routine was usually coming back to his room late after the disco/casino and sitting on his balcony chilling. He says he had chatted to Amy previously through/over the partition
He says he got back to his room on that particular night in the early AM yet he didn’t sit out on the balcony on that particular occasion? Amy and Brad chatting on the balcony would have been heard by him if he had. He alludes to hearing rumours of “people saying things like she fell trying to climb over” and the other side neighbours to his room said that they heard him talking to someone and that his tv was playing excessively loudly during this timeframe.

-Yellow’s key card indicated he entered his room at 3:30 and he answered the ship officers phone-call to his room at 7am.
We don’t know if he exited and entered again before this.
He continued to work on the ship for another 2 years so until 2000.
The Carmichael eyewitness puts him as one of the men on the beach with Amy in Curacao a few months after Amy’s disappearance. The cruise ship and authorities should know if he was onboard, at another port of call or docked in Curacao on that particular date.

-I don’t think crew members are necessarily off loading musical instruments, luggage and equipment carts at ports of call. Everything is mostly kept on the ship until it returns to the final disembarkation port. I would think crew lugging stuff off would be noticeable and out of the ordinary particularly on this day when Amy’s disappearance was signaled quickly.

-the other girls pictured on the sex worker website. Are they all trafficked and held against their will? Surely their pictures being made public because of this case means that some of them were identified.
What was their fate? Are they all missing and presumed now murdered women? How did they get there? Have any of them been freed? Or is Amy the presumed outlier?

I really want to believe that Amy is somehow alive with children somewhere and my heart breaks for her parents and her brother.
I think despite watching the documentary I am still of the belief that there was an accidental fall or something tragically happened out on the balcony

Anything that was reported missing (cigarette pack, lighter) could just be in her pocket if she fell. The father couldn't know what was 'her key' in those initial moments - every guest could have their own and leave them at different places, there's no way he could know 'this was Amy's key, where is she?'.

The open patio door could be interpreted as something as innocent as: she was drunk and seasick and opened it to go the bathroom, realized she wouldn't make it in time, and tried to throw up in the sea.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

Anything that was reported missing (cigarette pack, lighter) could just be in her pocket if she fell. The father couldn't know what was 'her key' in those initial moments - every guest could have their own and leave them at different places, there's no way he could know 'this was Amy's key, where is she?'.

The open patio door could be interpreted as something as innocent as: she was drunk and seasick and opened it to go the bathroom, realized she wouldn't make it in time, and tried to throw up in the sea.

I didn’t mean that the open patio door was nefarious just that it is a detail that could be important and wasn’t really focused on

And I also think that it could be exactly that scenario - she opened it partially feeling ill with the intent to lunge to the bathroom and instead turned around to vomit over the balcony.
Maybe even positioning the table to gain some height and space to not “spray” the railing or lower balconies and subsequently lost her footing or had a dizzy spell/medical episode