VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

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  • #1,521
Those are valid points and we could narrow this down a lot by knowing what time the ship docked. It's quite crucial.

I don't know about cruise ships, but if they're anything like airports, you might get charged close to double what you'd pay from a local store because they know you can't immediately go elsewhere.
Doesn't really matter what cruise ships charge for beer and cigarettes. If someone needs or wants them at 6 AM, they are probably available on the ship. It's like the hotel room mini-bar. If someone wants it badly enough, they pay extra for it.

She was on the balcony and did not feel well. She was not drunk. She had not slept in 36 hours.

Why would she leave the room and where would she go? There is no answer. She had no reason to leave the room.
 
  • #1,522
Those are valid points and we could narrow this down a lot by knowing what time the ship docked. It's quite crucial.

I don't know about cruise ships, but if they're anything like airports, you might get charged close to double what you'd pay from a local store because they know you can't immediately go elsewhere.
ive looked at the times of docking at the same ship and it says 8 am nowadays
 
  • #1,523
You also miss one important point regarding how these type of people think: That most men would not desire one of those many prostitutes you mentioned if they wanted to lock a woman up for themselves.
Rather, someone fresh who hasn't been with hundreds of men. It means he wouldnt have to wear condoms, a bonus. She's American too? Another bonus.
Those other poor Venuzuelan girls on the corner don't scratch the same itch.
 
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  • #1,524
I don't believe there is any information about the exact position of the ship. ChatGPT tells me it would've typically been somewhere between 1 and 6 miles from shore around the time of her disappearance. Take that for whatever it's worth.

I think there are also some maps of the ocean search area in the doc. My sense is they would've looked different if the ship had been docked when she might've gone overboard.

I have mentioned earlier in this thread the case of Steven O'Brien, a student who disappeared in 1993 from the downtown of Charlottetown after leaving a pub.


The most common explanation, if he is not as his family hoped until at least 2018 alive elsewhere, is that while drunk he fell and drowned in Charlottetown Harbour.


Charlottetown Harbour may be relatively deep, with shallow tidal inlets locally called rivers to the north and east and west. It is also a confined space, with only a relatively narrow inlet to the south. The French colonial settlement of Port La Joie was put on the western side of the inlet to watch the entrance; Charlottetown was built where it was because it was protected.

The volume of Charlottetown Harbour is limited. Yet, if Steven O'Brien did fall in, his body was never found, subjected to currents and who knows what damage.

The cruise ship was close to Curaçao, but it was still in open ocean. Who knows what currently exactly were in play? Especially since we do not seem to quite know where exactly the ship was.
 
  • #1,525
The cruise ship was close to Curaçao, but it was still in open ocean. Who knows what currently exactly were in play? Especially since we do not seem to quite know where exactly the ship was.
I've just remembered one thing: In the docu, it shows a diagram of the water search area they did, and it was right next to the land. So they must have been touching land almost at that point.
1753220375637.webp
 
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  • #1,526
You also miss one important point regarding how these type of people think: That many men would not desire one of those many prostitutes you mentioned if they wanted to lock a woman up for themselves.
Rather, someone fresh who hasn't been with hundreds of men. It means he wouldnt have to wear condoms, a bonus. She's American too? Another bonus.
Those other poor Venuzuelan girls on the corner don't scratch the same itch.
This is a lurid fantasy. I think it would be up to you to demonstrate that this actually has been enacted with other American travellers in a similar position to Amy.

Beyond that, even if for the sake of argument she was somehow abducted for the purpose of sex slavery, the description you give for the motives of the abductors is not compatible with her living much past the abduction. If her abductors wanted a disposable American woman, why would they let her live? Her very presence would be testimony to the crime they committed. Keeping her alive for years afterwards, even taking her on foreign trips, would just expose an ever-growing number of people to risks.

Amy would have faced the same fate as other people who were selected for rape on the grounds of their ethnicity and who could not be allowed to live to tell. She would have been killed. There would never have been any eyewitnesses who actually saw her.
 
  • #1,527
I think the biggest reason Amy could've left the room has been right there all along. She didn't feel great and was getting cabin fever with her family in such close quarters.
 
  • #1,528
This is a lurid fantasy. I think it would be up to you to demonstrate that this actually has been enacted with other American travellers in a similar position to Amy.

Beyond that, even if for the sake of argument she was somehow abducted for the purpose of sex slavery, the description you give for the motives of the abductors is not compatible with her living much past the abduction. If her abductors wanted a disposable American woman, why would they let her live? Her very presence would be testimony to the crime they committed. Keeping her alive for years afterwards, even taking her on foreign trips, would just expose an ever-growing number of people to risks.

Amy would have faced the same fate as other people who were selected for rape on the grounds of their ethnicity and who could not be allowed to live to tell. She would have been killed. There would never have been any eyewitnesses who actually saw her.
Its not up to me to prove anything. I'm just telling you that there are certain things a kidnapper could potentially want in a sex slave. Some women may fit his requirements, others not. These things, these requirements, multiply a womans chances of things happening to them. Thats the reason a woman in her 20's is more of a sexual target than a woman in her 70's, for example. Most men dont desire for a 70 something, hence that woman becomes less of a target.

You don't realise this??
 
  • #1,529
I've just remembered one thing: In the docu, it shows a diagram of the water search area they did, and it was right next to the land. So they must have been touching land almost at that point.
View attachment 603314
Amy was an intelligent, high-functioning, healthy young adult.

It doesn't add up that she left her room more than an hour before the boat docked to go on shore wearing her party clothing from the night before. We need to keep Amy in mind for all possibilities. Who is she and what would she do.

Recall that the boat had not yet docked when her father reported her missing at 7 AM. Her father said that she was no longer on the balcony shortly before 6 AM.

Why would she leave the room through the door, or did she?

There has to be a reasonable explanation for unwell, sober, sleep-deprived Amy leaving the room to wander the corridors of the sleeping ship passengers. None has been provided.
 
  • #1,530
  • #1,531
I think the biggest reason Amy could've left the room has been right there all along. She didn't feel great and was getting cabin fever with her family in such close quarters.
She had been out partying all night long and hadn't slept in 36 hours. Why would she suddenly think that she has cabin fever and need to wander around a ship?

Who has cabin fever after 2 days on a cruise ship?

She was on the balcony, there was a noise, then she was gone.
 
  • #1,532
1753221374780.webp

If this is indeed how it was, I must say, I dont like those railings at all.
 
  • #1,533
So it was 7. Was that from the Netflix doc?
According to Netflix, her father got up at 6 AM, reported her missing at 7 AM. He asked that passengers be prevented from leaving the ship when it docked. It had not yet docked. The decision was to ensure that the other 2400 passengers continue to enjoy their vacation.
 
  • #1,534
View attachment 603319
If this is indeed how it was, I must say, I dont like those railings at all.
Unless Brad says that's a photo that he took during the cruise, then I don't believe it has anything to do with Amy. Does he have a time stamp and an actual photo?

The internet was not a thing in 1998. Her family should not be posting unrelated photos for any reason. In 1998, people used real film to produce hard copy photos. Where is the hard copy photo of the balcony?
 
  • #1,535
I've just remembered one thing: In the docu, it shows a diagram of the water search area they did, and it was right next to the land. So they must have been touching land almost at that point.
View attachment 603314
Depends on your definition of "right next to the land." Assuming it's accurate, the closest the dotted line gets to shore (inside the search area) is about 1.5 miles. From where it first enters the search area, that's about 12-15 miles from the nearest land. If we guess that she went missing in the middle... still about 5 or 6 miles from shore... and farther the more west you go.

Keep in mind, the girl that went missing on spring break in the DR was right on the beach and still hasn't been found (it is believed she was taken by the waves).
 
  • #1,536
Depends on your definition of "right next to the land." Assuming it's accurate, the closest the dotted line gets to shore (inside the search area) is about 1.5 miles. From where it first enters the search area, that's about 12-15 miles from the nearest land. If we guess that she went missing in the middle... still about 5 or 6 miles from shore... and farther the more west you go.
Yes, well observed. That seems to be quite a large patch.
 
  • #1,537
  • #1,538
Is this the actual balcony picture!? If so, that table was much higher than one i have ever had on a cruise ship!
I cant say, it could be a generic one
 
  • #1,539
Its not up to me to prove anything.
No, it actually is.

The whole story that the Bradleys are telling depends critically on the existence of a conspiracy that would not only carry off risky actions like kidnapping an American tourist from her cruise ship, but would turn go on to keep her in custody for years on end and even let her do hugely risky things like take foreign trips.

We need to prove the existence of this sort of conspiracy. The problem with doing that is that nothing like that has happened. Sex trafficking targets people who are vulnerable, falling into categories of vulnerability that Amy either did not fall into at all or fell into only marginally (she was upset with her family, yes, but she was hardly being groomed by an older boyfriend).

Moreover, Amy disappeared even before she got to a Curaçao that is not only relatively stable but had and has fairly stable patterns of recruiting women for sex work from nearby countries. She was not backpacking in rural Haiti without a cell phone.

I think it interesting to contrast Amy's experience with that of Jacqueline Vienneau. It does seem as if she made some mistakes, for instance travelling by herself, and not staying in regular contact. Syria kay not have been the best place to travel solo for a young woman, although it is worth noting that Syrians seem to have been almost uniformly appalled that one of their number betrayed their hospitality. Still, it just takes one person.

Amy was not in Jacqueline's position.

I'm just telling you that there are certain things a kidnapper could potentially want in a sex slave. Some women may fit his requirements, others not. These things, these requirements, multiply a womans chances of things happening to them. Thats the reason a woman in her 20's is more of a sexual target than a woman in her 70's, for example. Most men dont desire for a 70 something, hence that woman becomes less of a target.

As I have said before, I think that if Amy did not fall, it is most likely that she was attacked. This does not mean that she was sex trafficked. That actually might have been barely imaginable in the case of Jacqueline, who had been visiting a country where deep internal divides and external conflicts exploded into civil war just four years after her death. ISIS there even conducted sex trafficking of women belonging to minority and unpopular groups, even Western women.

This is not likely in the case of Amy: Curaçao has had some difficulties negotiating its relationship with its past, with the Netherlands and with the other Dutch Caribbean islands, but the island has nothing like Syria's potential for violence. Imagining the sort of conspiracy there that would keep an abducted American tourist imprisoned as a sex slave for years on end is really hard. (Even harder would be imagining such a conspiracy that let her take trips abroad.)

It is also worth noting that the sex trafficking thing seems to be a product of the Bradleys' unhappiness with Amy's sexual orientation. "My daughter must be attractive to men, and would be attractive, if only she did not keep presenting herself as a lesbian." I am willing to bet that, in a slightly different timeline where Amy was straight and still disappeared, the Bradleys' attention would have a different focus, perhaps on the issue of balcony safety, perhaps in the issue of crew safety. The family's inability to imagine Amy as heterosexual even in the worst possible circumstances would not have manifested.
 
  • #1,540
Is this the actual balcony picture!? If so, that table was much higher than one i have ever had on a cruise ship!
It can't be an actual photo of the balcony from 1998. Any photo taken at that time has to be hard copy.

The photo looks like another rabbit hole that someone wants people to run down.
 
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