Identified! VA - Annandale, WhtFem 245UFVA, ~60, 'NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin', Dec'96

[FiveFelines]

Wow, Five! I'm impressed!!! Where on earth did you get that information? You've got some VERY KEEN researching skills.

Ha! I just googled her name:

http://www.unclaimedpropertylist.com/wisconsin/sprang-shirley-l-money

http://www.unclaimedmoneydatabase.org/directory/show/member/15955690/SPRANG-SHIRLEY-L.html

 

[FiveFelines]

Okay. Look closely at Shirley's nose vs. Jane's nose. One head is just slightly higher than the other but you can still see the noses well. They are quite unusual and are identical to each other.

I agree about the noses.

 

[pokypuppy67]

I mentioned Shirley on post #513 but I thought DNA would be automatically checked.....no?
Anyway, I had done some digging and there was a Sprang in her town (son/nephew age) who has an arrest report that included info on him being in a bit of trouble in the early 1990s. There is also an obituary for a woman with that surname who looked a lot like both Shirley and doe's reconstruction but not as much like the morgue image IMHO. The obit had a DOB closer to being a sibling age rather than a parent or child but then you'd think the women would have different married names.
With the lengths this woman went through to cover her tracks I wouldn't be surprised if she paid someone to call the police with some benign report in her name to help throw anyone off her tracks.

Good job obtaining that information, Apearn. Where did you find all that?

:rockon:

 

[FiveFelines]

This Jane Doe is said to have a scar on her abdomen, "probably from a C-section." Do we know for sure that this was a C-section scar? And do we know for sure that Shirley was childless?

 

[Sue Doe Nimm]

This Jane Doe is said to have a scar on her abdomen, "probably from a C-section." Do we know for sure that this was a C-section scar? And do we know for sure that Shirley was childless?

I wonder if she had her reproductive organs. A scar from an open hysterectomy looks pretty much the same as a scar from a cesarean, especially if they're older, well-healed surgeries. I'm not seeing anything definitive about her either having or not having children. I know in one of the photos of her she is holding a baby, but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[CallMeTres]

I agree that Ms. Sprang does resemble Jane and I had looked at her a few times previously as well. It was the colour picture of her on NAMUS that always caught my attention. I always turned away because of her contact with law enforcement in Nebraska - in retrospect I should have given that less credence.

I question the overlay technique. Yes, the prominent facial markers line up; however the overlay uses a forensic drawing. These drawings are often not very good, even the ones made with the aid of a computer. The morgue photo of Jane doesn't look much like her drawing - then again, people look a lot different after they die based on what I've seen on this site.

 

[pokypuppy67]

Ha! I just googled her name:

http://www.unclaimedpropertylist.com/wisconsin/sprang-shirley-l-money

http://www.unclaimedmoneydatabase.org/directory/show/member/15955690/SPRANG-SHIRLEY-L.html

That's funny! I thought you had special researcher's super-powers. Google...haha. Well, still...you are a very excellent Googler.

:floorlaugh:

 

[pokypuppy67]

I agree that Ms. Sprang does resemble Jane and I had looked at her a few times previously as well. It was the colour picture of her on NAMUS that always caught my attention. I always turned away because of her contact with law enforcement in Nebraska - in retrospect I should have given that less credence.

I question the overlay technique. Yes, the prominent facial markers line up; however the overlay uses a forensic drawing. These drawings are often not very good, even the ones made with the aid of a computer. The morgue photo of Jane doesn't look much like her drawing - then again, people look a lot different after they die based on what I've seen on this site.

Wait! You're saying there's a morgue photo? Where can I find that? Yes, that's true; that would be a more reliable source.

As far as accuracy, forensic artists are SUPPOSED to use the exact measurements of the individual, including soft tissue when present. Even when they do that sometimes they change the overall look artistically. When they have a fully recognizable face to work with it amazes me that they can make the person somehow look different, though maybe that is just differences in perception. The measurements, however, should always be maintained.

Many forensic artists trace from a photograph, I've read. And I know sometimes they use the original photo and just apply one of the photoshop filters to it to make it look less real...and they'll possibly touch up skin areas cosmetically (again, without changing structure). That's what I would do...apply the right filter and you can make the picture look less disturbing without altering the identifying characteristics.

Honestly, though, it would be extremely unlikely in this case for everything to line up so perfectly if it had been inaccurately drawn; and by inaccurately drawn I mean departing haphazardly from the preciseness of the source. I suppose it's possible, but extremely unlikely. That would be like randomness creating perfect order.

In this case, our victim died from a "non-traumatic" injury. And while an actual photo would be best, I do have confidence in this artist's depiction. Only because it did line up perfectly. The chances of that happening by accident? Very low.

Interestingly, a few people have said they see Jane Doe the most in Shirley's color photo. When it comes to her color photo I don't see the resemblance at all. Not a bit. I do see it very strongly in her little girl photo, though. And in her young adult photo.

 

[pokypuppy67]

I agree that Ms. Sprang does resemble Jane and I had looked at her a few times previously as well. It was the colour picture of her on NAMUS that always caught my attention. I always turned away because of her contact with law enforcement in Nebraska - in retrospect I should have given that less credence.

I question the overlay technique. Yes, the prominent facial markers line up; however the overlay uses a forensic drawing. These drawings are often not very good, even the ones made with the aid of a computer. The morgue photo of Jane doesn't look much like her drawing - then again, people look a lot different after they die based on what I've seen on this site.

Just by virtue of the fact that it did line up so well gives me the confidence that this artist maintained the integrity of the facial structure. Who knows what she did artistically beyond that. She shouldn't have gotten too carried away since she had a very recognizable face to work with.

One thing to consider in terms of people looking different when they're dead, and I have to remind myself of this, is that the picture of the missing person may have been taken years before the person went missing. When someone disappears the family is asked to provide a photo. Well, they may not have taken one anytime recently. That was something I noticed in Michelle Garvey's case: her face looked longer and older in her morgue photo than it did in her missing photo. She was only fourteen when she disappeared, so even if her missing picture was just taken the year before, she could have grown and changed a lot in that time. Of course, that's especially true for children. In some cases, sadly, the missing photos are decades old. I know that if I turned up missing my family would have to use a picture that was nearly 20 years old. Unless they thought to check my cell phone for selfies.

 

[astridxx]

Wait! You're saying there's a morgue photo? Where can I find that? Yes, that's true; that would be a more reliable source.

Yes -- a picture of the picture at a weird angle, lying on a table is linked somewhere in this thread -- most recently in the last couple of pages.

Karl and I have a 3x5, head-on copy of her face shortly after they found her. I have some other pictures too but can't share them. I got them from a woman who had been in touch with the original detective on the case some years ago and have not asked for her permission to share them.

 

[pokypuppy67]

Yes -- a picture of the picture at a weird angle, lying on a table is linked somewhere in this thread -- most recently in the last couple of pages.

Karl and I have a 3x5, head-on copy of her face shortly after they found her. I have some other pictures too but can't share them. I got them from a woman who had been in touch with the original detective on the case some years ago and have not asked for her permission to share them.

Thank you! And I totally understand about not being able to share the photos you were given.

 

[pokypuppy67]

Let's think about this from a completely different angle. I think for the most part, we have been thinking of this woman as a forgotten soul that was abandoned by all friends and family. Forlorn, and possibly ill (per the DNR bracelet), she crept away to a remote location and ended her life so as not to be a burden to society.

BUT....what if she WAS known, and had done something wrong? What if she were punishing herself for some grievous error? Why was she anonymous, and why did she go to such lengths to hide her identity....and from whom? And why wasn't this seemingly upper middle class woman being sought after by at least a cousin, a sister, a neighbor? Why was she hiding? I think we should explore this angle....

I agree with you on this. Her motives are unclear. I really want to know more about her...what happened to lead her to suicide. If the Lincoln police call log was off by a day (common occurrence, forget it's a new day) then perhaps what was said to her by the police was what led to her suicide. Me, I think it might have something to do with a child. A child buried in that same cemetery.

 

[astridxx]

I wonder, did I ever mention she had a small Minnie Mouse fanny pack on her?

I like Sprang as a match except for the eyebrows and wild height/weight variation.

 

[FiveFelines]

I wonder, did I ever mention she had a small Minnie Mouse fanny pack on her?

I like Sprang as a match except for the eyebrows and wild height/weight variation.

I saw the Minnie Mouse pack elsewhere online. It seems so out of place with everything else.

 

[carbuff]

I agree with you on this. Her motives are unclear. I really want to know more about her...what happened to lead her to suicide. If the Lincoln police call log was off by a day (common occurrence, forget it's a new day) then perhaps what was said to her by the police was what led to her suicide. Me, I think it might have something to do with a child. A child buried in that same cemetery.

[modsnip] the majority of the burials in that cemetery are African-American, which makes it less likely that she's connected to any of those children.

As for the date on the police contact -- you need more time than what can be accounted for by a one-day police log discrepancy. The drive from Lincoln, Nebraska to northern Virginia is at least 22 hours -- and that's driving time. It doesn't take into account gas stops, meals, sleep. You need at least a two-day discrepancy, and that would assume she drove as fast as she could and committed suicide the moment she got there, which doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of her careful planning.

Possibly she flew, of course, and that would make things a little more workable, but I think you're still talking more time than can be accounted for by a mistake in clock rollover.

 

[shadowdancer]

I wouldn't be surprised if she took her life in the cemetery simply because that's where the dead people are, so that's where she felt she ought to be.

 

[carbuff]

Okay. Look closely at Shirley's nose vs. Jane's nose. One head is just slightly higher than the other but you can still see the noses well. They are quite unusual and are identical to each other.

[modsnip]

If I had to say, I would say it looks to me like Jane's nose is somewhat arched just below the bridge where her glasses rest, where Shirley's might be straight. I can't tell for sure because of the different angles. Jane's nose appears to me to be almost hooked at the tip. This could be from the difference in age, since noses tend to elongate as we get older.

Shirley's chin looks squarer, too, and to me it looks off in the overlay. Again, that might be from the slightly different angles.

Jane's eyes don't look as deeply set as Shirley's. Since this difference is more pronounced on the right side, it could also be a factor of the angles.

 

[carbuff]

Judith Guerlin (sp?) And elizabeth connie converse.
I was positive it was judith. Had to eat my hat over that one.

You and me both

 

[carbuff]

I thought she was Connie. I've been feeling kind of dejected that it wasn't her, both because now I'm left not only still wondering who the lady at the cemetery is, but where Connie is as well. Frustrating and at times disheartening.

Do we have an official ruleout for Connie? I thought they were still looking into that possibility.

 

[CallMeTres]

I had never read about the fanny pack. For some reason, that strikes me as out of place.

I wonder if she would be annoyed that so many people want to identify her?