Identified! VA - Annandale, WhtFem 245UFVA, ~60, 'NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin', Dec'96

[FiveFelines]

Well, that's the logical conclusion one would come to with this presented as a suicide, but I do think it is unusual for a person to sign their suicide note as Jane Doe. To not want to be identified in death. To want to disappear off the face of the earth. To wipe themselves out of existence and leave no shred of who they were behind. It could be a suicide, just as presented, but there are elements that have more in common with murder than suicide. And it would be a brilliant murder. They would have tricked the police into destroying the evidence for them.

And what does ETA stand for? Just curious.

ETA = edited to add

I would have once agreed with you about it being odd to not want to be identified in death but there are quite a few "anonymous by choice" suicides out there. Lyle Stevik and the lady in Seattle who took cyanide come to mind. (Both are elsewhere on WS and are equally fascinating!)

I see where you could come up with a murder scenario (it's been suggested earlier in this thread), but to me the elements are much more suggestive of suicide. JMO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Wow Poky - I didn't for once consider murder, and it should be considered! While the chances are this is, indeed, suicide....we should consider all possibilities. I mean, thus far, we've struck out. Excellent sleuthing....

 

[Tssiemer]

I considered murder at first. But something about her seemed sad and alone and then the Connie Converse thing came up.


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[rosesfromangels]

This woman looks older than 60 to me. I would say upper 60's maybe even early 70's. The fact she is only 5'0" is quite identifiable. What isn't adding up for me is the nicely permed, and recently dyed hair. Who commits suicide just after getting their hair done? That's doesn't add up, unless she wanted to look good going out. Who knows.
That little permed 'do also speaks to someone older than 60. If I had to guess, I'd say this is a little woman of Irish ancestry (the height especially), perhaps a widowed teacher or someone exposed to journalism or LE. She was very sleuthy in not being identified for all these years! The term "Jane Doe" wouldn't typically be used either, unless you are a medical professional, journalist, LE, or member of WebSleuths!

 

[pokypuppy67]

ETA = edited to add

I would have once agreed with you about it being odd to not want to be identified in death but there are quite a few "anonymous by choice" suicides out there. Lyle Stevik and the lady in Seattle who took cyanide come to mind. (Both are elsewhere on WS and are equally fascinating!)

I see where you could come up with a murder scenario (it's been suggested earlier in this thread), but to me the elements are much more suggestive of suicide. JMO.

Huh! That does lend more credence to the idea of choosing anonymity in death. It seems so counter-intuitive to me because it goes against the typical human need to leave one's mark in the world. And to be mourned when their life is over. A lot of people leave behind a legacy through their progeny...and for some people that is enough. But I don't think Shirley had any children...or at least not any that lived, or else that she personally raised. It just seems unfathomable to me that anyone would choose to depart this world so quietly, with nobody to know they were gone, nobody to mourn their passing. And that poem didn't indicate that she had any beliefs of a Heaven, or a next life. So what could override such a natural human instinct?

I'll have to look at those cases. I'm really drawn to the ones where nothing seems to make sense. Where one's motives are unclear. The Maura Murray case, for example, although I can't even keep up with that one.

As far as the murder theory, I'm not completely sold on it. It's something that needs to be considered, I think, until such time as it can be conclusively ruled out. There are certain aspects of the case that do fit with a murder or assisted suicide scenario. Although maybe the detectives have already considered and eliminated it. They said the state paid for Jane Doe's cremation so either it was more than $50 or they had to keep her money locked up in evidence.

That contact with the Lincoln P.D. could tell us so much. I wish they were more willing to talk about stuff like that.

By the way, you said Shirley hit a pedestrian in 1977? Did it say what month or date? Her dad died in 1977, didn't he? I'd be curious to know how close together those two events were. She could have been emotionally impaired following her father's death, which could have led to her hitting that pedestrian. Although, maybe it was just another incident caused by her bad driving skills.

 

[FiveFelines]

This woman looks older than 60 to me. I would say upper 60's maybe even early 70's. The fact she is only 5'0" is quite identifiable. What isn't adding up for me is the nicely permed, and recently dyed hair. Who commits suicide just after getting their hair done? That's doesn't add up, unless she wanted to look good going out. Who knows.
That little permed 'do also speaks to someone older than 60. If I had to guess, I'd say this is a little woman of Irish ancestry (the height especially), perhaps a widowed teacher or someone exposed to journalism or LE. She was very sleuthy in not being identified for all these years! The term "Jane Doe" wouldn't typically be used either, unless you are a medical professional, journalist, LE, or member of WebSleuths!

Was it established that her hair was permed and/or dyed? It could be naturally curly. I have known women into their 80s who still have their natural hair color.

I do think she was well cared for, with her nice clothing and painted nails. But I believe there are plenty of people who would make themselves look nice for their "final exit". The Doe in Seattle who put on makeup and then killed herself with cyanide is one example.

Totally agree that she was pretty clever. I think she was educated, a teacher, nurse, writer, etc.

 

[pokypuppy67]

This woman looks older than 60 to me. I would say upper 60's maybe even early 70's. The fact she is only 5'0" is quite identifiable. What isn't adding up for me is the nicely permed, and recently dyed hair. Who commits suicide just after getting their hair done? That's doesn't add up, unless she wanted to look good going out. Who knows.
That little permed 'do also speaks to someone older than 60. If I had to guess, I'd say this is a little woman of Irish ancestry (the height especially), perhaps a widowed teacher or someone exposed to journalism or LE. She was very sleuthy in not being identified for all these years! The term "Jane Doe" wouldn't typically be used either, unless you are a medical professional, journalist, LE, or member of WebSleuths!

I hadn't thought about that, roses. It is interesting that she used the term "Jane Doe". She could have been thinking ahead as to what the officials would call her, but you're right; her use of the term Jane Doe may very well be significant. She could have just not signed the suicide note at all if she wanted to hide her identity.

This is rampant speculation but...I think she might have been a nurse. No good reason to think that. Just a hunch. It's funny; when I first saw her I thought she looked like a Shirley...but I realized immediately why; because had tight little ringlets like Shirley Temple had. Coincidence! :woot:

 

[annemc2]

I hadn't thought about that, roses. It is interesting that she used the term "Jane Doe". She could have been thinking ahead as to what the officials would call her, but you're right; her use of the term Jane Doe may very well be significant. She could have just not signed the suicide note at all if she wanted to hide her identity.

This is rampant speculation but...I think she might have been a nurse. No good reason to think that. Just a hunch. It's funny; when I first saw her I thought she looked like a Shirley...but I realized immediately why; because had tight little ringlets like Shirley Temple had. Coincidence! :woot:

Not rampant speculation at all! The no code/DNR bracelet (working with patients whose lives were artificially prolonged/the terminally ill), plastic sheet on the ground (accustomed to dealing with bodily fluids, knowledge of the release of urine/stool immediately after death), the request for no autopsy (familiarity with what happens to bodies after suicide/suspicious death), the lethality of her suicide method - totally plausible she would be a nurse!

 

[pokypuppy67]

Not rampant speculation at all! The no code/DNR bracelet (working with patients whose lives were artificially prolonged/the terminally ill), plastic sheet on the ground (accustomed to dealing with bodily fluids, knowledge of the release of urine/stool immediately after death), the request for no autopsy (familiarity with what happens to bodies after suicide/suspicious death), the lethality of her suicide method - totally plausible she would be a nurse!

Hmmmm. Okay, I could have been interpreting all that on a subconscious level. On a conscious level I could just visualize her wearing white or green nursing scrubs.

Nice deductions, by the way. You really make some astute observations

 

[Tssiemer]

Yeah. Dead bodies are messy and gross. It's a lot of paper work too...


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[CallMeTres]

I always imagined Jane Doe being a nurse in the military. I don't know what made me think nurse, but she looks a bit like my friend/retired co-worker who was in the Army for four years and in the reserves until she retired.

They have the same haircut (though my friend has gray hair) and glasses and general "look." So I chose military for Jane Doe simply because she resembles someone I know.

I have a confession to make: I don't think of Nordstrum's as high end. They have slightly more expensive clothes than a Belk, Thalheimers (I'm old), or Sears/Penny's. The clothing is much better made than Sears/Penny's, but only a bit more expensive. Just professional lady wear. I bought from them all the time back when it was standard in my profession for female field reps (which I am) to wear suits and hose.

 

[rosesfromangels]

There is a military country club very close to that cemetary. .....

 

[astridxx]

I think she must've been from out of town, and was either new there or had visited before. I just can't comprehend how no one knows her. Then again, it took over 10 years to solve the case of
Sam Barnhard, who lived and worked and rented in virginia beach...


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[poppygirl]

I always imagined Jane Doe being a nurse in the military. I don't know what made me think nurse, but she looks a bit like my friend/retired co-worker who was in the Army for four years and in the reserves until she retired.

They have the same haircut (though my friend has gray hair) and glasses and general "look." So I chose military for Jane Doe simply because she resembles someone I know.

I have a confession to make: I don't think of Nordstrum's as high end. They have slightly more expensive clothes than a Belk, Thalheimers (I'm old), or Sears/Penny's. The clothing is much better made than Sears/Penny's, but only a bit more expensive. Just professional lady wear. I bought from them all the time back when it was standard in my profession for female field reps (which I am) to wear suits and hose.

Nordy's (at least these days) is higher end RTW (as opposed to boutique or couture, which would be the next step up). RTW, is still mass market, but for a clientele willing to spend more on clothes and shoes. While you'll find a range of wide apparel there, with 'lesser expensive' offerings, you can also find designer clothes that are a step (or 2 or 3 or 10 lol) of what you'd find in Penny's or even Macy's...Valentino, Chanel, Prada, etc. They still carry lesser expensive labels that you can find elsewhere, like Michael Khors, DVF, etc. So a nice range, but for sure with higher end offerings.

 

[Wanting2Help]

You are all doing great work. Its awesome to see how much everyone puts into identifying a complete stranger!

O/T ~ I could really use some help in this thread (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155058) if anyone has any new ideas. I haven't posted there in a while but I'm still researching and HOPING...

 

[rosesfromangels]

O.K. let's take a fresh look at this with a different approach.
I just recently learned that her eyeglasses have been traced back to a shop in Belgium.
In addition, the drink that she had with her -Loosa- is a popular drink that is manufactured in Belgium.

Thus, I think it's a pretty good conclusion that our gal is from Belgium or has strong ties there. The glasses shop should be visited and records (if any still exist) should be scoured. They were trifocals, so that most likely means someone other than an optometrist prescribed them. That should be explored too.

Perhaps she wasn't considered "missing" from the Belgium authorities. She probably told people she was moving to the US, or had legit reasons to be here.
I say we solve this by going back to leads from the glasses shop.

 

[FiveFelines]

O.K. let's take a fresh look at this with a different approach.
I just recently learned that her eyeglasses have been traced back to a shop in Belgium.
In addition, the drink that she had with her -Loosa- is a popular drink that is manufactured in Belgium.

Thus, I think it's a pretty good conclusion that our gal is from Belgium or has strong ties there. The glasses shop should be visited and records (if any still exist) should be scoured. They were trifocals, so that most likely means someone other than an optometrist prescribed them. That should be explored too.

Perhaps she wasn't considered "missing" from the Belgium authorities. She probably told people she was moving to the US, or had legit reasons to be here.
I say we solve this by going back to leads from the glasses shop.

I totally agree. I think she was European and had lived in US for long enough to understand American culture (the tapes) but to retain a sense of sophistication (the clothes). Perhaps she moved here, married, and maybe her husband died. Her relatives in Europe could think they just lost touch with her.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder if the same shop is still around and has archived records. They generally keep them for ages.
The glasses will lead us to her identity.

 

[FiveFelines]

I wonder if the same shop is still around and has archived records. They generally keep them for ages.
The glasses will lead us to her identity.

I'm surprised that no one pursued this avenue yet!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I believe there has been an attempt, but it merits revisitation and persistence.