VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #1

[Heroine]

Well that's clearly an unsafe practice, and I can't imagine venue owners would allow it given the potential for serious liability. Also, yuch.

Or is that fake blood? I'd be interested in PiXy's take on this.

There is a video of SickTanick beating himself in the head at the SFTW show that just recently took place. And yes he did this right in front of 16 yr old Emma which was in the front row. And also pictures of girls taking their clothes off on stage.
I'll go find them and post them right now.

 

[dangrsmind]

All I have to say is, why do you keep insisting on evidence? Not that there isn't enough to see, but even LE officers and profilers must speculate in order find out exactly what happened. They take their speculations and find proof or if there is no proof they discredit whatever they can't prove. We aren't saying we're trained professionals or anything, we're just discussing the possibilities.
Also, there are a s**t load of these pictures of them and their so called communion.

When you are accusing someone of a crime, evidence matters. People are talking about cults, cultists, and cult leaders here. There have been specific allegations made against specific people. It is not just the informed inference about personality or motivation which is known as profiling.

The blood in some of these pictures looks pretty fake to me to be frank. I know that some horrorcore fans dress in costume for these events and I have some friends that do theatrical make up etc. and their stuff gets pretty gruesome (see http://laughingsquid.com/pix/2003_11/haunted_barn/)

Searching for "communion wounds" & horrorcore only brings up our own postings.

 

[KindraLore]

When you are accusing someone of a crime, evidence matters. People are talking about cults, cultists, and cult leaders here. There have been specific allegations made against specific people. It is not just the informed inference about personality or motivation which is known as profiling.

The blood in some of these pictures looks pretty fake to me to be frank. I know that some horrorcore fans dress in costume for these events and I have some friends that do theatrical make up etc. and their stuff gets pretty gruesome (see http://laughingsquid.com/pix/2003_11/haunted_barn/)

Searching for "communion wounds" & horrorcore only brings up our own postings.

Dress in costume?? lol. These people dress this way every day (minus the blood Im sure). There are plenty of pics to support Communion wounds that shows the actual wounds they receive (normally head wounds). Seems you will argue the smallest of details though and do not want to look at the big picture.

As far as doing a google search on communion wounds, do a search for SKR apostles, minions, and the like. The only thing it will pull up is the followers of this band's "fans". Its not like they wiki the inner workings of such a "group".

 

[dangrsmind]

Well, a site named jesus-is-savior.com is going to have a highly colored viewpoint on rock music, not just the Stones. I think the actual lifestyle of the Rolling Stones in that period would not be comparable to that of contemporary horrorcore devotees. How many devil tatts does Mick Jagger sport, how many slash scars? Did he file his teeth? Charlie Watts, at his age, looks like he's lived a relatively quiet bankers-hours lifestyle (JMO).

I mean, Sid Vicious comes a lot closer, if you want people who actually lived their lyrics.

Re: Sid, I agree and I mentioned Sid and Nancy previously. Horrorcore reminds me a lot of the early punk scene as I experienced it in Berkeley California.

As time goes on the artists have to become more extreme to seem edgy. The Stones already put a severed goat head on their album cover and Black Sabbath and others have included satanic imagery in their music and record covers. So these people have to go even further to the aborted fetuses and so on. And of course all of this stuff has also been in hundreds of the "B" slasher movies that fill Blockbuster etc. and on TV.

In the end, is a horrorcore song really more extreme than episode of Dexter or CSI?

 

[dangrsmind]

Dress in costume?? lol. These people dress this way every day (minus the blood Im sure). There are plenty of pics to support Communion wounds that shows the actual wounds they receive (normally head wounds). Seems you will argue the smallest of details though and do not want to look at the big picture.

As far as doing a google search on communion wounds, do a search for SKR apostles, minions, and the like. The only thing it will pull up is the followers of this band's "fans". Its not like they wiki the inner workings of such a "group".

No, I think that they call the "accidental" wounds received in the mosh pit "communion wounds". This is very different than purposeful ritual self injury. Have you ever been in a mosh pit?

And I also think they also use fake blood, a lot of it, as part of their look. Yes those are costumes...

See also: http://www.essortment.com/hobbies/halloweencostum_sfzh.htm

 

[KindraLore]

No, I think that they call the "accidental" wounds received in the mosh pit "communion wounds". This is very different than purposeful ritual self injury. Have you ever been in a mosh pit?

And I also think they also use fake blood, a lot of it, as part of their look. Yes those are costumes...

See also: http://www.essortment.com/hobbies/halloweencostum_sfzh.htm

I am not talking about your halloween costume pics. I am talking about pictures from the concerts.

 

[dangrsmind]

There is a video of SickTanick beating himself in the head at the SFTW show that just recently took place. And yes he did this right in front of 16 yr old Emma which was in the front row. And also pictures of girls taking their clothes off on stage.
I'll go find them and post them right now.

I agree that there seems to be a big problem with this being an all ages event and with the behavior of some of the hosts during the event given that there were underage individuals present. I've DJed at all ages events and I would immediately leave if I saw anything like that going on with the hosts and minors.

I don't at all support SKR's management of the event, and I would say that they can expect significant attention in this area from the authorities in the future.

But does this imply complicity in this terrible murder? I say no.

 

[dangrsmind]

I am not talking about your halloween costume pics. I am talking about pictures from the concerts.

These aren't my pictures. Did you examine the link?

My point is that gruesome and bloody costumes are not reserved for horrorcore fans only.

 

[VCDaedalus]

It hik there's a difference between people dressing up for an event, like Halloween, and people who live a lifestyle that fetishizes murder, mayhem, etc., in direct connection and communion with musical performances by bands that fetishize the same. The "fourth wall" between audience and performer has been breached. The bands are the only ones who have a direct interest in claiming that they do not ADVOCATE murder and mayhem, they just use the images associated with it to make their artisticalistical-like statements about Life. So their hands, while bloody, are clean.

 

[KindraLore]

These aren't my pictures. Did you examine the link?

My point is that gruesome and bloody costumes are not reserved for horrorcore fans only.

My point is the concert pics are not costumes. My point is that IMO (which I cannot confirm but instead speculate) that the blood IS real considering the photos of the wounds themselves. However, your point would then be they were accidental mosh pit wounds.

I think I can respectfully agree to disagree with you regarding our opinions in this case as I believe we both stand firm. Not that it matters to you but your credibility was shot with me when you said you had a respect for horrorcore. There is nothing respectful about the genre, music, lyrics, satanic references, etc.. whatsoever. IMO of course.

 

[dangrsmind]

It hik there's a difference between people dressing up for an event, like Halloween, and people who live a lifestyle that fetishizes murder, mayhem, etc., in direct connection and communion with musical performances by bands that fetishize the same. The "fourth wall" between audience and performer has been breached. The bands are the only ones who have a direct interest in claiming that they do not ADVOCATE murder and mayhem, they just use the images associated with it to make their artisticalistical-like statements about Life. So their hands, while bloody, are clean.

I agree about the breach in the "fourth wall", but again these people did not create that situation, nor did they invent violent/satanic imagery or the use of same as entertainment.

Where's the outrage about violent slasher movies and TV shows? Or does the fact that this is music somehow make it worse?

 

[dangrsmind]

My point is the concert pics are not costumes. My point is that IMO (which I cannot confirm but instead speculate) that the blood IS real considering the photos of the wounds themselves. However, your point would then be they were accidental mosh pit wounds.

I think I can respectfully agree to disagree with you regarding our opinions in this case as I believe we both stand firm. Not that it matters to you but your credibility was shot with me when you said you had a respect for horrorcore. There is nothing respectful about the genre, music, lyrics, satanic references, etc.. whatsoever. IMO of course.

I think you misunderstood me (or is that misrepresented?) I said I found some things in juggalo culture that were interesting and potentially enlightening. Have you read anything about the six joker's cards?

As far as the costume vs. blood issue, I'm waiting to hear from someone that was there or at least is part of the scene to weigh in on this issue. the blood looks fake to me in at least some of the pictures you linked. But I am not a blood spatter expert and I can't tell really.

 

[dangrsmind]

It hik there's a difference between people dressing up for an event, like Halloween, and people who live a lifestyle that fetishizes murder, mayhem, etc., in direct connection and communion with musical performances by bands that fetishize the same. The "fourth wall" between audience and performer has been breached. The bands are the only ones who have a direct interest in claiming that they do not ADVOCATE murder and mayhem, they just use the images associated with it to make their artisticalistical-like statements about Life. So their hands, while bloody, are clean.

How many people have died as a direct result of Halloween related activities? I don't know the answer, but this is a relatively recent local story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/01/BAG0UM3RDE1.DTL

 

[VCDaedalus]

The films use the music, and so do the video games. If the music does not amplify the experience, they wouldn't make it a big part of both films and games.

If you've read This Is Your Brain On Music (which I am not yet finished reading), you would understand that music IS different than books, still photos, creeds, tattoos. Music creates a physiological state, a psychologically malleable state. That's why cults of all kinds, including the jesus-is-savior.com types, use an environment in which music sets the tone and the mood.

And people don't adopt a Halo lifestyle and expect to be treated like adults. Horrorcore fans, and this is just my opinion, want to be viewed with deadly seriousness, and I use that adjective deliberately. You say you live a lifestyle based around a video game, and most adults will direct you to the kiddie bathrooms. But chains and tatts and piercings are scary, like motorcycle gangs without the vehicles. Such people WANT to be viewed as having the Power A Deth in their pudgy unmarked hands.

 

[VCDaedalus]

How many people die because of murders committed by fans of All Hallow's Eve, celebrated on October 31??

Or are you asking how many people die because trick-or-treaters get hit by cars, or because a child dies of peanut allergies or someone in a costume drives drunk? It's apples to oranges. If you want to compare a holiday-fatality rate, there's also spring break and New Year's.

People don't go out and kill people because they suddenly develop an attitude when wearing a costume on October 31. I'm talking about people who adopt a lifestyle, not dress up for one night of partying.

 

[dangrsmind]

The films use the music, and so do the video games. If the music does not amplify the experience, they wouldn't make it a big part of both films and games.

If you've read This Is Your Brain On Music (which I am not yet finished reading), you would understand that music IS different than books, still photos, creeds, tattoos. Music creates a physiological state, a psychologically malleable state. That's why cults of all kinds, including the jesus-is-savior.com types, use an environment in which music sets the tone and the mood.

And people don't adopt a Halo lifestyle and expect to be treated like adults. Horrorcore fans, and this is just my opinion, want to be viewed with deadly seriousness, and I use that adjective deliberately. You say you live a lifestyle based around a video game, and most adults will direct you to the kiddie bathrooms. But chains and tatts and piercings are scary, like motorcycle gangs without the vehicles. Such people WANT to be viewed as having the Power A Deth in their pudgy unmarked hands.

I have read the book, and I fully understand what you are saying about the music. I previously mentioned the four affective systems and the appeal of horrorcore to the "rage" mode. But then there is the mystery of declining violent crime rates to be solved.

Also, I know a lot of people that have scary tattoos and piercings and are in reality big cream puffs. Seriously.

As far as the Halo lifestyle, ever heard of cosplay?

Also see these:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/us/07halo.html
http://boards.ign.com/halo/b5240/185697568/p1/?14

And am also reminded of the recent story about the founder of the "Jedi religion" that refused to take of his robes in a Tesco store.

 

[VCDaedalus]

I don't think the rioting at a Halloween celebration in SF compares to the horrorcore lifestyle any more than Mardi Gras does. Neither celebration is really about fetishing death, dismemberment, abortions in toilets, etc.

 

[absynthminded1]

I do note that animal feces was found at the scene, and that IS listed in the presentation as one sign of a ritualistic crime.

Or it could just be that the family had a lot of animals that were defecating in the house when the owners were too dead to let them outside....

 

[VCDaedalus]

The "mystery" of declining violent crime rates is 1) not necessarily a fact--it may only apply to the United States and may be a result of cooked statistics or cherry-picking; 2) does not address whether horrorcore fans are murderous as a result of their lifestyle and desideratae. All violent crime is not related to horrorcore. Your statement would be relevant only if that were true.

 

[dangrsmind]

How many people die because of murders committed by fans of All Hallow's Eve, celebrated on October 31??

Or are you asking how many people die because trick-or-treaters get hit by cars, or because a child dies of peanut allergies or someone in a costume drives drunk? It's apples to oranges. If you want to compare a holiday-fatality rate, there's also spring break and New Year's.

People don't go out and kill people because they suddenly develop an attitude when wearing a costume on October 31. I'm talking about people who adopt a lifestyle, not dress up for one night of partying.

Well, exactly. And as you suggest, we don't really blame those deaths on Halloween. The situation is similar to horrorcore.


If Halloween didn't exist, then many/most of these Halloween related deaths would not occur. Certainly the Castro shootings (no deaths thank goodness) I referenced previously were a direct result of the existence of Halloween celebrations, the hosting of a large event celebrating Halloween, and they were perpetrated by the people that attended this celebration for whatever reason. That's why the event was ended by the city.