VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

[Emaa]

Anyone know if the hospital has a medical waste incinerator?
Its far fetched but i know a case in Sweden where they think one of these were used to burn a body or parts of it. The problem was that all of the ashes and residue had been shipped off long before anyone thought of this. If they have one, would POI have access to it?

Cadaveric Materials

Human cadavers and recognizable human body parts require special handling. Please contact EHS Biosafety at 434-982-4911 for guidance.

http://ehs.virginia.edu/biosafety/bio.waste.html

http://ehs.virginia.edu/ehs/

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html

On Friday, police conducted a search of Matthew’s vehicle, a 1998 burnt orange Chrysler coupe, which was parked in front of his apartment. While police were there, an interaction with residents of the complex led police to seek a search warrant for Matthew’s apartment while he was inside, Pleasants said.

bbm

 

[steelman]

I just ran searches for any new media stories concerning the apprehension and capture of Jesse Matthew. Nothing at all is showing up. :noooo:

I guess we are in for yet another day of hide-and-seek conjecture. :truce:

If J. Matthew was smuggled out of the area by some of his less-than-desirable friends, he could be hiding 3 or 4 States away by now. :escape:

If the forensics comes back and shows evidence that Heather was indeed in his car or at his residence, be prepared for a manhunt of epic proportions. :copcar::copcar:

It appears the cops are getting all geared up for exactly that ( wanted poster, media blitz, etc.). :busted: :behindbar

 

[CHERIE.T]

Please delete Bessie if this is a repeat.
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/l...cle_a6e6c8e0-42c3-11e4-8295-001a4bcf6878.html

“He’s created an impression that he’s got something to hide, and that may not be true at all,” Hingeley said. “He’s created an impression we’re all stuck with.”
Efforts to reach Matthew and his relatives were not successful. A man standing watch at the home of Matthew’s grandmother turned away a reporter Monday evening.
Search crews earlier in the day combed the area of Jefferson Park Avenue near UVa. Authorities would not say why they focused on that area."

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

I don't really believe that we are defending JM...but some of us ARE defending the constitutional rights that should be afforded to ANY citizen in this country. I'm certainly not defending him, but I AM in the "innocent until proven guilty" by a jury of his peers camp -- and, by that, I mean a real jury in a real courtroom and not someone who is tried and convicted by social media, message boards, or MSM when we don't have all of the evidence. At least that's the way I am looking at things. My heart is absolutely breaking for the Graham family. If you watched the PC yesterday and just saw the utter devastation in both parents' eyes and heard her mom sobbing off camera, you would have to be someone without a heart to be untouched and unmoved.

The problem is -- not one single person on this board knows for sure what exactly happened that night. The only two who know for sure are Hannah and whoever it was (and I suspect that there is a good chance that it was JM) who took her. There are lots of theories that others post that I don't understand, just as I'm sure some of my thoughts and ideas seem like nonsense to someone else. But...we all need to continue to respect one another here. In the words of my 80 year old mother -- "If you can't say something nice..." You know the rest. A little civility between each of us will go a long way. We're not all going to agree. There will always be those in the "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck" camp and there will be others of us in the "innocent until proven guilty" camp.

We have had 11 threads of speculation and a whole lot of contention and snarkiness between sleuthers because emotions are running very, very high in this case. We just all need to try to understand one another as best we can. We may not EVER understand someone whose thoughts are very, very different from our own -- but at least we can be civilized and polite to one another.

I just hope that, if JM is the guy, that LE has enough on him to convict and that they have an airtight case so that he doesn't get off on some technicality or a defense attorney can twist a rock solid case and play the jury when it comes to that. That is when the real justice will be served for Hannah and for her family.

Anyway...just my two cents, for whatever they are worth. I'm off to bed. When I return tomorrow, I'm sure hoping that they have some of the forensic results back and they can move forward one way or another.

My whole point in general there was that I'm not trying to convict anyone I'm just tryin to find Hannah. And this person is proving to be a major roadblock in doing that..that's what I was trying to get across that it seems to be more about him and how he MAY be being done wrong than it is simply finding her

 

[possumheart]

The guest wasn't exactly clear in his explanation when I heard this....but it would be likely that the mud allowed them to get a warrant for the CAR....then other items inside the car allowed them to get a warrant for the apartment. This would fit exactly with what has already been stated a number of times by LE and news media.

jmo

That would tie in with the call for people on properties to check for tire tracks that aren't their own, and the reported search of a local commercial orchard. But if there was mud on the tires for an explainable reason, I fear that the tunnel vision is counterproductive.

 

[JenMom]

Maybe. But, think of this, when you drink any liquid, what goes in must come out. What if Hannah was upset, crying, needing a bathroom like NOW? Now imagine JM walks up to her says oh things can't be that bad, sunshine! Or, let's turn that frown upside down! What's going on? Maybe at that point Hannah says she needs a bathroom so he escorts her into the Tempo for that reason. He orders himself a drink, and could have ordered her a coke, coffee, water, and suggests she sits down for a bit, and talk. She's in a public place with others around. So what's the harm? She could have said she got turned around, and feels lost, or her friends are waiting for her at such and such place. He offers her a ride there, telling her it isn't safe to be out walking around by herself that time of night...

In that theory, patrons might likely be drinking themself and not notice them leaving, or even being there! And up to that point, nothing illegal or harmful has occurred. Just two people, sitting at the bar area or in a booth/table talking. Nothing unusual at all. In fact, thinking about that now, it's surprising anyone did take notice! Unless they noticed Hannah's top. That would be the only thing that would have caught my eye, not because it was provocative, but because it wasn't a top I'm use to seeing. But even if someone did notice them, again, nothing illegal had occurred!!

It's what went on after that...whether he did drop her off somewhere, whether she left walking, etc. It will be interesting to find out at what time JM's car was noted to be leaving the area after the Tempo incident. If it was immediately, or if it appeared to take a few minutes after getting to the car before he left, etc. It's even possible Hannah DID leave there walking, and he followed and picked her up. We don't know! We hopefully will know more evidence soon, but sadly, we're a long way from finding Hannah. I keep hoping to hear LE say they have his vehicle turning into his road to the apartment at such and such time, and that will close the gap as to how far away Hannah could possible be, IF she was riding with him. Again...only a starting point. Just not enough clues to figure out further at this point.

This is the best, most well-balanced theory I have read. Combining this with the seriousness of charges and understandable fear of being railroaded in order to alleviate the concerns of thousands of worried UVA parents...I could understand the poor decision by LJM to keep quiet.

I am still completely on the fence about whether he was the perp or not...but this is a very plausible theory of how he could be innocent and still with her.

I really hope the police have hard evidence to justify the pressure they are putting on him.

 

[Emaa]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html

On Friday, police conducted a search of Matthew’s vehicle, a 1998 burnt orange Chrysler coupe, which was parked in front of his apartment. While police were there, an interaction with residents of the complex led police to seek a search warrant for Matthew’s apartment while he was inside, Pleasants said.

bbm

Wow. Wow.

I'm trying to remember how it was worded in the first press conference, but the implication was that they found something in the car that led them to get a warrant for the apartment. Perhaps that's what police wanted us to infer.

 

[Luvrosco]

I agree,WichitaFalls. That's why I think if he is innocent he's scared. Its true about how many black men have been falsely accused. It's not just black men, though. Sometimes LE gets tunnel vision, IMO. Think of Richard Jewel and the Duke lacrosse players. However, I can see how they did zero in on JM due to the video. But I have a problem with the way Longo spoke about him to the public. IMO, they should have kept quiet, show the video to the public, and just watch him 24/7. Then he probably wouldn't have fled.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

I believe in innocent until proven guilty too but all I care about now is finding Hannah and I believe LE feels that way as well..and anyone who is a hindrance to doing so rather than a help I don't give two craps about..

 

[Emaa]

Maybe. But, think of this, when you drink any liquid, what goes in must come out. What if Hannah was upset, crying, needing a bathroom like NOW?

Could explain why she is walking 'with a purpose' and why she tried to get into McGrady's.

 

[Eileen730]

After reading more hours than I care to admit, I'm left with some conflicting feelings that I'd like to share.

I believe racism is alive and well in our country and I often say if I was the mother of a black son, I'd be terrified for his safety each and every day. I don't think many of us that are white and of a certain age (WF, 60 years old) have a clear idea what it's to be a young black man in today's world. Sort of like me a female expecting a man to understand a pregnancy. People still see black men on the sidewalk and lock their car doors (I've done it) when we see them on the street. They are judged as "punks" "trouble" if they are wearing a hoodie and jeans falling down over their butt. I understand a large segment of black men/women have a real distrust/fear of LE and the establishment based on past decades of unfairness in every day life, convictions that over the years have been reversed after spending 30+ years in prison for crimes they did not commit. I live in Dallas and in the past ten years, something like 26 men with an average of 36 years time spent in prison were found NOT guilty through new DNA testing. The majority of the freed were Afro American. I believe that Jesse carries this cultural distrust and his fears have dictated his actions the past few days which really aren't helping him at all. Another poster said the prosecutor will/can use that behavior as a flight risk example and they would be correct to do so. I'm not defending him, merely trying to understand his actions. I have no idea if he is guilty in the disappearance of Hannah (or others), it doesn't look good at all that he was the last known person with her! He's made a mess of the past few days (he could have done so much better with good counsel) but I sort of get the fear that's dictated his actions/non-actions.

The other thing I ponder on is that LE must have sooooooooo much evidence that points to Jesse being in deep as far as Hannah's disappearance. I don't believe I've ever seen press conference where the chief basically calls a POI out over and over - really strange. The wanted poster for traffic violations was strange to me. The only way I can reconcile the Captain's behavior is he's pretty darn sure Jesse abducted and killed Hannah or much less likely he's gone over the deep end. If Jesse did in fact kill Hannah, he's toast as he should be.

My heart hurts, hurts, hurts seeing her precious mom and dad. I pray this can be cleared up soon for those dear souls.

And their darling Hannah. What a dynamic young woman! I've read her tweets and fell in love with her. I never had a daughter but if I had and she was like Hannah I would consider myself blessed beyond words. She was going to make something wonderful out of her life . . .


Hope this makes some sort of sense. I've typed it after taking a sleeping pill, must get some rest.

Can I just say one thing here.
WE do not know if he is running in fear that he is being targeted for something he did not do because hes black.
Or he is running because he did something very wrong and knows hes caught.
What we DO KNOW is Hannah is still missing. He was with her.
Time to man up and do the right thing.
If he only had gone in to talk to LE when they asked him..This could have been avoided.

JM was out wandering the Mall that night and unfortunately something happened to a woman and HE was last to see her.
He cant say it wasn't me because hes seen on video and seen by witnesses.

We have heard nothing about counsel refusing him.
We have heard NO family members begging him to turn himself in and do the right thing. We will stand behind u.
Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have not rushed to the scene. (they always do)

So lets wait and see what forensics tell us then move on from there.

All JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

There was something( I can't find it now) that I read ( I read news articles just about all day) that said a neighbor of jesse's told LE that he was there (apartment) with a white girl recently. iirc It's my opinion that is what led to the apartment search warrant. jmo idk

 

[TravelingBug]

I had no idea so many people didn't know social security numbers areincluded on many wanted posters or agency or state webpages. And in the past it was even more common.

I'm sure in this case they didn't intend to release it and it was the LE version one that was unintentionally released.

However, often they are put in bulletins or newsletters and update type things that go out periodically (monthly seems to be most common) with them compiled, but they're not "pushed" as the official poster that's being widely disseminated when it's first issued.

Meaning if you go and look at the lists or the bulletins or newsletters or whatever they use, they are there, but that when the actual wanted poster is technically released, they redact it or simply leave that spot off as if they never put them there.

There are agencies that include them on ALL the subjects that they publicize. Ocean City NJ is one example.

You'll see some list people like Ocean City does, but without putting the SSN there. But if you click on where it'll say "release" or "poster" or something along those lines then you get the full poster. Or they have a 'poster' and 'full poster' type differentiations, and so it's a matter of which version you look at in terms of whether or not it's included or not, and obviously it's typically the version without that gets disseminated.

Most, of course, only put them on the ones that are disseminated to other LE agencies (Nashville PD, for instance). Though there are some of those that end up slipping out if someone is careless or rushing.

And a number used to have them all public but no longer do. In some cases, Nez Pierce, for one, that means older wanted subjects show it while the newer ones don't. And in many others all their old newsletters or bulletins from before they made a change are still showing with them, while the new ones don't.

All of the above is also true for many of the federal agencies also - US Marshals ATF FBI to name a few.

 

[RNER]

Have we discussed this? Found this on FB page for Hannah posted today

"They keep saying that they don't think Hannah could have been where she said she was in her last txt message. But 14th in Wertland is right in front of the hospital where Mathews worked... Is this a coincidence??? Praying for answers soon."

If this is in front of the hospital, maybe there are cameras capturing Hannah or JM there. I would think LE has checked into this!

 

[Kas80]

Could just the fact that JM was the last one to be seen with her be enough to search his vehicle to see if she was in it?

 

[zapped]

Zapped it never occurred to me to connect feeling guilty to being white and I assure you I carry no outside agendas. My post simply tried to address some of the many layers of this human tragedy. I don't believe you read this in the spirit that I wrote it. That being said I respect your right to respond as you wish. My sympathies are in line with yours (did you miss that part or just chose to ignore it), innocent, vibrant, beautiful, smart, funny Hannah, her precious mom, dad, brother and friends who love her. This event will change who they are and not in a good way. We're all here because we care.

I may have overreacted to that post given how much race has been interjected into this case recently and Im sorry if you feel that it was directed solely at you. That wasnt my intention.

I feel like this needed to be said to a lot of folks here and at this point I dont care if I get in trouble over it or not.

I dont remember Web Sleuths being like this even a year ago and I dont think its a change for the better.

 

[cady]

Business owners and people who frequent the mall said they are familiar with Matthew, a well-known and distinctive figure on the mall and within the area’s bar scene, with his big-barreled physique, goatee and dreadlocks. Anthony Williams, a parking attendant at a Charlottesville garage near the mall, said that Matthew is popular and a familiar face among the downtown mall’s bars and eateries.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html


So JM was well known in the mall. It also mentions he has a goatee so the WG was right about that one.

HMMM If WG was a bouncer at the mall one would think he would have recognized the familiar person of Matthew when he saw him with Hannah. JMO

 

[Eileen730]

This is the best, most well-balanced theory I have read. Combining this with the seriousness of charges and understandable fear of being railroaded in order to alleviate the concerns of thousands of worried UVA parents...I could understand the poor decision by LJM to keep quiet.

I am still completely on the fence about whether he was the perp or not...but this is a very plausible theory of how he could be innocent and still with her.

I really hope the police have hard evidence to justify the pressure they are putting on him.

why do they have to justify the pressuer they put on him?
Hannah is missing they want to TALK to him...
This is a man not a college kid.
He has a long rap sheet.
im sure he has a lawyer on speed dial.

 

[Jmm124567]

I was watching the Sal's video. When JM is cutting through the patio and HG walks by it looks like JM may have raised his right arm waving at her but she doesn't notice him cause she appears to be looking straight the whole time.

One thing I wonder is did they know each other. My mind keeps going back and forth about this.