VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #16 *ARREST*

[Kale]

You know, as a woman you are taught to not be "rude" or "snobby" to people. Always be nice. Maybe she was just frustrated at walking, her friends, who knows and he was "nice to her". Maybe she wasn't necessarily attracted to him but just was glad someone was , let's say at the time, helping her. One doesn't have to be attracted to someone to either accept a kind (at the time) offer. Just guessing though. Obviously.

Yeah, exactly. Growing up in my household as one of two daughters, there was an enormous emphasis on always being nice. I mean, sometimes we'd think we were being nice and our parents would say we weren't being "nice enough". The standards were high. So when I was 18 and going out and driving and so forth, guys would bother me, invade my space, invite themselves to my table... And I would smile and nod, thinking to do otherwise was rude. But guys like that interpret the slightest tolerance as interest.

That was when I met my now husband, and it only got more uncomfortable to be hassled by strangers when I wasn't even on the market. It took a long time to learn that you really just need to shut them down, nip them in the bud, be harsh and frank, "I'm not interested", "Go away"... It goes against everything I was taught but these guys think you wanna jump their bones just because you didn't hack at them with your car keys.

 

[cluciano63]

Am wondering if we find out soon that he is NOT linked to others cases or that no links can be found...what will we all discuss when this general discussion thread closes in an hour or two...not much would be my guess. Jmo

 

[Claudia]

Maybe hannah was his big mistake who knows.. But there are so many coincidences that it doesn't look good for him imo.. Let's say I'll be surprised if there's not a connection at this point.

Anything is possible, but I can't, at this point, jump on that bandwagon. Something could come out in the near future to change my mind, but right now, I can't see it.

 

[RSC]

I have a hard time believing this is his first time, at least regarding rape if not murder.

There is a series of witnesses who came forward to talk about his issues with boundaries, and he has been accused of rape once before. I'm unclear why you would say "I can't see it." (not attacking, just curious)

He is the last known person to be seen with Hannah. He stalked/targeted her first, then brought this clearly drunk teenager to a bar, then god knows where, after a night of getting rejected by other women that he touched inappropriately.

IMO, he is someone who has done this often.

Could be, but I still just can't see it.

 

[Zuri]

All possible. We don't know what LE found in the car. Maybe condoms, but so what? Unless used, that's not a big deal, as it's not that uncommon to find.

"Date" rape is so common. Huge problem at colleges now, but also for those who are not coeds. Who ever reported him at Liberty chose not to press charges within the legal system. The proof is hard to get for these things, especially if the female was agreeable from the onset. Agrees to go with the guy. Leaves a lone with the guy. Refuses assistance, doesn't call for help, allows guy to be arm in arm with her. Difficult to prove when the "yes" turned to "No" and just say so doesn't cut it in a court of law , and it's a time consuming, humiliating experience to undergo. But there are those who make false accusations of this sort too, so some sort of balance and the presumption of innoncence needs to be upheld as well. But here the woman in the case has disappeared which puts a whole other spin on the situation. Still if she is not found or is found without evidence linking him beyond what LE has released, it could be an uphill fight for a conviction of charges. IT is possible that JM did not directly harm her, let alone kill her, given what we know so far. He could have just let her out because she wanted out, she could have gotten hurt then, or been picked up by someone else.

I had posted before about my then 17 year old daughter who took herself to a frat party, was drinking, was roofied and raped. She doesn't remember who it was or where she was. I didnt find out until 2 months later when she told me. I wanted to go to the police, but she refused and said she was too embarrassed.

I knew something was up because her grades plummeted, her behavior changed, and my beautiful blonde haired, blue eyed daughter was a shell of her former self. I ended up taking FMLA from work just to be home and get her through high school. She required medical attention from that assault which only made her feel worse about herself. I took her to a therapist and she refused to talk about it as she just wanted to move forward.

Subsequently, she made more poor choices over a period of 2 years. Finally at 20, she started to turn around and stopped her self destructive behavior. It has not been easy to say the least. My heart goes out to anyone who has been a victim or a parent of a victim. It has altered the course of her life, which hopefully is now on track.

Thanks for letting me share.

 

[cady]

Am wondering if we find out soon that he is NOT linked to others cases or that no links can be found...what will we all discuss when this general discussion thread closes in an hour or two...not much would be my guess. Jmo[/QUOTE

We probably won't find that out unless her body is found........and then way after that. JMO Iguess we may have to resort to the other missing women thread, but I've resisted, so far. JMO

 

[Meemaw12]

Found this video of presser at apt

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ex8jar2mXao

 

[Elley Mae]

are there crops around c'ville? where are likely places that he would have gone. for example, the first place i'd think to take someone where cops aren't around in Louisiana is one of the smaller towns with crops everywhere. where people don't live in true neighborhoods. you know back roads where a farmer lives on the land then there's no other home for a mile or 2.

that's where I'd look. what are the towns like this near cville?

Some are harvesting now, soy,corn,wheat,alfalfa, and of course hay/grass but that is pretty much over. There are areas of woods and wooded areas near streams and creeks as well. There are tons and tons of outbuildings that are normally close to the dirt roads on these properties. I am very fortunate in that we are in a home (rent) on a farm, 400+ acres. This is just one of many, many farms surrounding charlottesville as any local can tell you. When you are out and about in this area like I was yesterday, rode up to culpeper, about 30 minutes north and thinking about Hannah I can't tell you how it was very fortunate that they found Morgan. Some areas here get planted with pines 100-1000's of acres that no one steps in or walks though for 12-16-maybe 20 years before they harvest the trees. idk jmo It will be like a needle in a hay stack as far as finding her.

 

[Kale]

I don't know if I believe that he's been murdering women for years... For one thing, I don't believe this is popular opinion, but I don't actually see such a strong resemblance between JM and the sketch from the Harrington case. Of course, it's a sketch, not a photo... I'm sure there's an ever present margin of error...

My theory is that, like a lot of eventual murderers, JM has been escalating for a long time. Maybe as a child he was cruel to animals. Maybe later he was verbally abusive with a girlfriend. Then later he was hitting people. Then he molested/raped someone. Now he killed someone. It's not such an unusual timeline. He's not particularly sophisticated in the head, IMO, and every transgression he commits has an element of sloppiness to it that increases as the severity of his crimes increases. If this is his first murder, it could have been a total culmination of all of his failings, his impulsiveness, his lack of analytical skills, his aggression, his seeming inability to think things through beforehand...

He's not a frighteningly smart killer like Bundy, rather a sort of moron who has little to no self-control... JMO. It seems common to me.

 

[Claudia]

I have a hard time believing this is his first time, at least regarding rape if not murder.

There is a series of witnesses who came forward to talk about his issues with boundaries, and he has been accused of rape once before. I'm unclear why you would say "I can't see it." (not attacking, just curious)

He is the last known person to be seen with Hannah. He stalked/targeted her first, then brought this clearly drunk teenager to a bar, then god knows where, after a night of getting rejected by other women that he touched inappropriately.

IMO, he is someone who has done this often.

I'm saying "I can't see it" because I can't see it! Lol
I've run into a lot of guys who have boundary issues... I seriously doubt they're all serial killers, though.
I never once said I think LJ is innocent in Hannah's case. I said I don't think he's been running around C'ville raping and murdering for 12 years.

 

[birdbox]

A few thoughts: For those who are still waiting on "hard evidence" - I am just curious, what do you think or how do you think crimes were solved back in days prior to DNA? A girl goes missing without a trace back in 1905. Did LE just always get the wrong guy? Was there a point to even having investigators back then? I mean, how did they do this prior to cell phone, video, dna, invisible blood droplets? hmmm...eye witness accounts of the last person to be seen with the alive person coupled with circumstantial evidence....that was it...but yet, trials still happened...people were arrested, tried and sentenced. It went on this way for hundreds, thousands of years. Was it all in vain, was it all wrong? I doubt it. Stop overthinking everything.

2nd thought: I wonder if some people just have such a hard time with this case is because they feel weird that they too could have been fooled by JM. They see him in the videos, walking, talking, high five-ing people, and they think, "Hmmm, this is a guy I might have accepted a ride from, perhaps." I think people don't like to believe (even to the very end) someone that looks like a person they would trust could be involved. Just wondering. I know this will be shot down and much will be said about people being innocent until proven guilty. And I would counter that with a statement that this is a forum for discussion and ideas, maybe even fantasy. I am not on a jury. I am using this forum to think aloud, as many others who want to solve this case. I can say, "I think he is guilty." all day long if I want. I can say, "I think he may be a serial killer." all day long if I want. You asking questions such as "Did I miss something...when did this guy become a serial killer, when was hard evidence presented?" Those questions make me laugh aloud. This is a discussion forum and idea forum. We hope anything that pops in our mind might help find HG in our small fantasy world.

And finally....this guy might could have fooled some of you at the bar...he would not have fooled me.

 

[RSC]

We wouldn't need HG to be found for a match to other cases. We just need his DNA, which they now will have. I think we will hear very soon if he is a match for other cases; I could go either way on this one.
:fence:

Am wondering if we find out soon that he is NOT linked to others cases or that no links can be found...what will we all discuss when this general discussion thread closes in an hour or two...not much would be my guess. Jmo[/QUOTE

We probably won't find that out unless her body is found........and then way after that. JMO Iguess we may have to resort to the other missing women thread, but I've resisted, so far. JMO

 

[steelman]

By design, an infrared camera will go into black and white mode while filming at night. You can't tell the color of things, just shades. A dark pair of jeans will still appear to be dark, but you can't tell if they are blue, black, green or brown. A lighter colored shirt will appear almost white, but it could be any color on the spectrum. When the same camera goes back into daylight mode, the infrared transmitters are switched off, and you can see things in full color again. The camera at the Shell station, although in color, is not an infrared camera. It is just a standard surveillance camera with enough area lighting in the parking lot to still get a decent video and be effective.

In previous days before the technology advanced, most night vision cameras and binoculars showed everything with a green tint. Obviously everything the camera saw was not green, but it appeared that way. It was either light green, dark green, or somewhere in between, but there was no way to distinguish individual colors.

I have 2 of those cameras that I use every day around here, and not only can I not tell what color peoples clothes are at night, I can't tell you what color a car is either. It will appear either dark, medium, or light colored.

It is highly likely that the shirt that JM was wearing previously that night in the bar is the same shirt he was wearing on video. The bar scene was taken with a camera that recognized colors, the video of him walking by was taken with a night vision camera in black and white mode which essentially washed out the pattern on his shirt.

 

[ToodieWorm]

I have a hard time believing this is his first time, at least regarding rape if not murder.

There is a series of witnesses who came forward to talk about his issues with boundaries, and he has been accused of rape once before. I'm unclear why you would say "I can't see it." (not attacking, just curious)

He is the last known person to be seen with Hannah. He stalked/targeted her first, then brought this clearly drunk teenager to a bar, then god knows where, after a night of getting rejected by other women that he touched inappropriately.

IMO, he is someone who has done this often.

Jameis Winston was accused of rape, too. Just sayin'.

 

[RSC]

Except for the time he was accused of rape, of course.

I'm saying "I can't see it" because I can't see it! Lol
I've run into a lot of guys who have boundary issues... I seriously doubt they're all serial killers, though.
I never once said I think LJ is innocent in Hannah's case. I said I don't think he's been running around C'ville raping and murdering for 12 years.

 

[DizzyB]

IMO it isnt about looks,:but more about his aggressive puck up style that would flag most women. I can picture him sliding up along side Hanna fast sweet talking. She too polite (even if too drunk) he coaxing her along maybe to get her a ride back home(her phone dying?) Etc. Most females (sober) that I know get creeped out by an aggressive/boundary crossing guy. Even earlier that evening he was accused of such behavior. Maybe he had been successful in the past with over drunk ladies in bars.
Never thought that attractiveness played into it.

This is a cautionary tale on so many levels. WTH was Hannah doing wandering around all night by herself? Why did not one of her friends try to help her that night or check in on her the next day? How many people saw this obviously inebriated girl and just ignored her? Did Tempo personnel think to report a coed in need of help?
I'm not sold on the theory that JM set out to rape and murder that night. It also depends on what your definition of a predator is. There are plenty of guys out there looking for girls incapable of saying no. Did he kill her? I don't know. Something happened, and JM knows what it is. Either he killed her or he did not get her help. He is culpable.

 

[human]

there may be limitations, but if he left town, it will show that. it may not give exact locations, but something to go on for where to search.

I used to think that until I read the article. Cell pings are problematic.

 

[ToodieWorm]

A few thoughts: For those who are still waiting on "hard evidence" - I am just curious, what do you think or how do you think crimes were solved back in days prior to DNA? A girl goes missing without a trace back in 1905. Did LE just always get the wrong guy? Was there a point to even having investigators back then? I mean, how did they do this prior to cell phone, video, dna, invisible blood droplets? hmmm...eye witness accounts of the last person to be seen with the alive person coupled with circumstantial evidence....that was it...but yet, trials still happened...people were arrested, tried and sentenced. It went on this way for hundreds, thousands of years. Was it all in vain, was it all wrong? I doubt it. Stop overthinking everything.

2nd thought: I wonder if some people just have such a hard time with this case is because they feel weird that they too could have been fooled by JM. They see him in the videos, walking, talking, high five-ing people, and they think, "Hmmm, this is a guy I might have accepted a ride from, perhaps." I think people don't like to believe (even to the very end) someone that looks like a person they would trust could be involved. Just wondering. I know this will be shot down and much will be said about people being innocent until proven guilty. And I would counter that with a statement that this is a forum for discussion and ideas, maybe even fantasy. I am not on a jury. I am using this forum to think aloud, as many others who want to solve this case. I can say, "I think he is guilty." all day long if I want. I can say, "I think he may be a serial killer." all day long if I want. You asking questions such as "Did I miss something...when did this guy become a serial killer, when was hard evidence presented?" Those questions make me laugh aloud. This is a discussion forum and idea forum. We hope anything that pops in our mind might help find HG in our small fantasy world.

And finally....this guy might could have fooled some of you at the bar...he would not have fooled me.

But, we are "better" than that now. Thousands of innocent people were put away before DNA, as well.

 

[Elley Mae]

I would think that longo knows that as well as far as the area surrounding charlottesville and is probably why he is pressing the public to look the way he has. I think it was only chance that Kevin Quick's body was found as quick as it was. jmo

 

[DavidC]

Wow. So if no one at Tempo witnessed Hannah walking in to Tempo with Jesse, and several other witnesses are dead sure Hannah was never in Tempo that night, could it be that Jesse walked out with the other crop-topped girl? Also, if Jesse and the girl were spotted walking back toward the Mall wouldn't that be on video? And what of the claim that Jesse was with another white girl that night? A girl shorter than Hannah? Crop-topped girl inside Tempo was shorter and heavier than Hannah. Very interesting what Coy has revealed here.