VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #9

[razzledazzle]

O/T I saw several threads back - like maybe Friday - that a 17 year old also went missing from the area the same weekend. Does anyone have info on that? I can't find anything. TIA!

 

[OldSteve]

Random thought time:

Can't help but think the Police might want to investigate the two sexual assaults that occurred the same weekend that HG went missing - one of them on the same night at practically the same location where HG texted someone saying she was lost. 14th and Wertland.

Report on sexual assaults:
http://www.nbc29.com/story/26576293/police-investigate-sexual-assault-incidents

Strange? Police have said there is no connection. But if that's the case, then this is probably the biggest coincidence of all time. What if the 'text' sent by HG was an attempt to bait her female friends to come out looking for her. Like I said, just a thought....

Yes! Good point - so many times before there's an abduction or attack upon a woman is carries out, there are failed attempts by the perp in weeks/days before.... what you point out about two assaults that weekend does not sound like a coincidence...

 

[Jmm124567]

Wow...This seems like a lot of foot traffic for an 18 year old college girl to cover alone on a Friday night! Maybe I am wrong, but Hannah does not appear to be a "party girl" type of person that frequents bars alone, "lives for the week-end", gets drunk and high or engages in consensual risky behavior frequently. Not the kind of person I would see walking ALONE to bars. She appears to be social with a lot of friends and involvement in college activities, a softball player, band member, and a smart student who takes her grades and classes seriously. Her facebook/tweets don't display many pictures or comments about drinking and partying. So...why in the heck would she be running, stumbling, or walking around town late at night BY HERSELF???????

I have daughters, nieces (and even myself back in the day) who attended big colleges in party towns. We all have had different experiences with partying and engaging in risky behavior and establishing our "priorities" on a Friday night. Not a single one of us would have walked or been alone for that length of time, especially intoxicated, UNLESS we were meeting someone in particular, a guy we were interested in or someone we knew really well. Most college students (girls in particular) do not get drunk or walk around drunk by themselves, because drinking is a social thing! There is usually one girl in the group that feels they are the "caretaker" of everyone that is drunk and will attempt to make sure everyone gets home safely, even if they themselves are drunk! Look at the videos. There is NO OTHER FEMALE walking alone! Who was Hannah going to meet or who was she looking for? Was it JM? Was it someone she was secretly seeing or had a crush on? In my opinion, she had a purpose of going there alone, and her gait and brisk movements show it (as opposed to being lost).

People are not always as they appear. What she was wearing that night screams party girl

 

[I Must Break You]

I have thought about this, too. I'm not familiar enough with the area to know if there are any sharp drops/bodies of water/etc, but I don't think that this is the most likely possibility. She was an athletic girl, and she walked around long enough to sober up significantly. And I think the fact that there are two men on camera seen following her is much more than a coincidence, IMO.

I believe what you're saying is very possible, but I think at this point there is enough evidence to suggest that there is someone else involved.

That's the problem with this scenario, there really isn't any major body of water close to where HG was that night.

 

[CVilleSleuth]

Yes, yes they do.

 

[Quill]

O/T I saw several threads back - like maybe Friday - that a 17 year old also went missing from the area the same weekend. Does anyone have info on that? I can't find anything. TIA!

Again, I don't have the link, but IIRC she has been found and brought home safely. She had run away.

ETA: I haven't found the link, I don't know. I found one reference to her being found after she ran away, but it is a Facebook reference and unlinkable.

 

[CVilleSleuth]

Message to CPD: You should dig into this!! It's too suspicious!

 

[Jmm124567]

Snipped for space...


I'm also thinking that he would have talked could have retained that attorney. JM had not been charged, and therefore could not get a public defender. He probably consulted with an attorney he could not retain. That attorney said "Hey, you can't afford to retain me, and you can't get a PD, so your best bet right now is stay quiet. Wait for them to get their evidence and see if they will arrest you." So they left the station. IMO - He didn't come to the station JUST to ask for an attorney. IMO he wanted to talk, but with an attorney, and he could not have one sit in on the talk.

This is why I think they may have charged him with reckless driving. So he can get a public defender and sit down with them.

 

[fiorita]

No, he said 'We have them leaving Tempo'. NOT we have video of them leaving Tempo' or 'we have eyewitness accounts of them leaving Tempo' The statement was vague and open.

 

[CVilleSleuth]

Yes! Good point - so many times before there's an abduction or attack upon a woman is carries out, there are failed attempts by the perp in weeks/days before.... what you point out about two assaults that weekend does not sound like a coincidence...

Message to CPD: You should dig into this!! It's too suspicious!

 

[Cherry]

One more thing...and sorry again but I hv to refer to the original sketch that was listed for MH's case and now Heathers. I'm still really torn on weather he is AA male or Arab. There is something about his appearance that screams Arab middle eastern to me. I'd like LE to check all student expired visa's and updated middle eastern student visa's for anyone living in a 5 mile radius of the college. I know that sounds like a lot but for a hacker with great skills it isn't a lot....to decipher. If the same person took HG that visciously murdered MH, I truly believe we are missing something very important...checking student visa's exp and not. This person lives very close to the college. This person is a rapist and has issues with approaching women when they are not intoxicated. Meaning he has some type of anti social personality; or possibly is extremely socially inept around women. I think that we need to also look into the possibility of a hate crime against women if this person is..as I suspect, not AA but Middle eastern. Behind that philosophy..there is general hatred against esp blonde women in america...this is known in america. Isis, Isil, or any extremist groups hate blonde beautiful entitled females. I hope that the FBI and LE has checked into exp visa's for the school, and all students that are here on visa from Middle east. Someone who may have flew home out of country after morgan was murdered but has now had his visa reinstated and has killed again. Someone living in the general area...who is failing and flunking out at school and has extremist views on America. I just have to float this public in writing because i am pretty good at profiling, and reading body language and scenes. I am retired now and have lots of time on my hands. So when I look at these missing women, including Morgan's case and this case, and the sketch matching...almost to the T, I really need someone to look into exp visa's trips out of country and returning students with visa's reinstated. As well as expired visas that dropped out and are living in and near the college. This means footwork door to door, finding out exactly who is living in each home, and if anyone has knowledge of someone who is here on a visa...someone who traveled out of country after Morgan's death and has now returned to america. I just cannot go on thinking he is an African American. There is something that keeps screaming to me middle eastern about the perp in many of these cases. And not to racially profile, but I just want them to check the visa's on students who flunked out and stayed in the area. If other students could come fwd who had a roomate who fits this MO that would be most helpful for Morgans case possibly as well as this one. Not many days go by that I do not find myself remembering or thinking about Morgans case, and I will never forget her. Something is going on in VA, and someone knows something. Reaching out to the public and putting out feelers, such as these could really help. I'm not convinced the sketch is of an African American Male. JMO...and also my opinion of a possible motive behind the rapes. This is someone who is a failure. Someone who is a failure WITH WOMEN, and the only way to even "get" near one is when they are completely intoxicated. otherwise normal women would blow them off in a heart beat. He is socially inept in some way. And he has an extreme hatred of either women, or possibly Americans. I understand everyone not understanding that he lawyered up asap; if you look at the front end of his vehicle, we also need to ask of this POI, when did that damage occur and did he accidentally hit HG, as she fled his vehicle that night or was it a hit and run and he is good for this crime and put her body somewhere. Those are my ideas this morning...but my original profile in Morgans case ...nothing much has happened yet to sway me away from my theory. Someone also has Mogan's necklace...I can't see HG close enough in the video's and it looks to me that she is really lite on accessories, did she have any jewelry on at all? This needs to be put out there, exactly what her rings looked like and earrrings if she had them and necklace if wearing one that night. These are just my opinions so far...I'd lawyer up too if I was named a POI and had nothing to do with this case...I'm just not sure how accurately he even fits the sketches released in this case.

 

[T4Tide]

It appeared, to me, that JM stopped momentarily off screen as the two women approach.... possibly to send a text? Because WG seems to receive a text (or simply look at his phone) right after JM resumes walking and then circles around.

 

[Saccas85]

Are you sure? I thought Longo said they didn't have a video of them leaving Tempo but they do have eye witnesses who saw them leave.

IMO

Unless I'm hearing things. I believe it was a question asked by a reporter and one of them said yes we do have footage of them after they left Tempo. I remember the part you are speaking of but I could have sworn he answered that question with a yes they did have footage, just not at Tempo.

 

[carbuff]

Video taken at 1:06 a.m. Saturday at 221 E. Main St. showed a white man walking into the camera frame, Roberts said. The man looked over his shoulder, then stepped into a doorway as Graham walked past. After she passed, the man started walking behind her. A second video, taken at 1:08 a.m. from a camera at 319 E. Main St., showed Graham walking with the same white man some distance behind her.

Roberts said the man in the video told police that a black man approached Graham and put his arm around her. They started to talk and the first man continued walking off of the mall.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/l...cle_0fdd71ec-3ee0-11e4-97d8-0017a43b2370.html

Oh, thank you!

 

[monkey222]

So, did JM drive away from the police station with new lawyer, solo, family members? And please tell me that LE got that plate number, vehicle descrip, and is on camera. I have not read all the posts so apologies if discussed. Thx.

 

[jamicat]

At this point, the forensic results are going to be very important. If some signe of Hannah is found, or anything suspicious found in JM's car or apartment, it will give LE a direction to pursue. Otherwise, LE is at a dead end. All they have is info (don't know if it's on video or by witness statemnt) that JM and Hannah were together at Tempo and that's the last they can account for where Hannah was. She disappears from there. They can also note, I think, that JM had a car in the area. There is also likely no sign of JM on any surveillance cameras after the time he has been placed with Hannah.

So JM is probably lying very low, awaiting the forensic results. If he got an attorney, the attorney will look at any new breaking developments and keep him apprised. Given that the case is so hot, and the way LE jumped on JM's car and apt, plus what they are releasing about him, it's probably a smart thing for him to leave the area and hope tings cool down and other evidence pointing away from shows up, or things get cold. He can then take care of his reckless driving charge. Might be a good idea fo him to leave Charlottesville.

In college towns most rapes, assaults, crime against students occur by other students or former students hanging around in the area. A lot of times, things are taken care of within the unviersity framework without the town LE brought into the picture. Unless it is a felony charge, or student brings the case to the attention of LE, they don't get involved. There is an uneasy balance about these things, town-gown relationships.

 

[fiorita]

What's stopping CPD from calling WG in for further questioning and possibly obtaining some warrants on him, his phone, etc?

 

[carbuff]

I just keep wondering that do any of you all think there's a possibility that perhaps no one did anything to Hannah, but maybe something happened to her when she got lost? I mean, for example, the case of the one mentally ill young woman who disappeared, and then later they found her body in a lake, and she had drowned because she had wandered off by herself. Apparently she sometimes imagined things, like things were chasing her or something. And in the dark, she fell into a lake.

I'm just saying this because of the text Hannah sent that she was lost, and on top of that if she was inebrieated to where she didn't know her surroundings. Or even it could be the case that someone earlier had put some kind of date-rape drug or something in her drink, to where she was in a very vulnerable state. Is it possible she could have fell somewhere, or fallen into a lake, or something of that sort?

Something along those lines is certainly number one on my list.

 

[Topcat]

I agree. It's not like he was forced to come in. He just walks in and says I want an attorney.

Considering he has been through the court system numerous times in the past I'm surprised he doesn't have ones number available. Did LE take his phone?

 

[CVilleSleuth]

Hey Cherry Pie,

If you read the latest news, you'll see that the POI is a black make born in the UK, but has lived here in the US since he was a child (don't know if he'd refer to himself as AA as a result)....