GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[YidArmyRach]

Am I the only one who thinks this is exactly as reported? That the mom took Noah to drop off the dad, came back home, went to sleep for 2.5 hours, and woke up and didn't know where he was but sadly he accidentally fell into the septic tank and drowned.

The large numbers of people who have fallen into septic tanks and drowned makes this very very believable to me.

But what about the "hard tip" to look in the septic tank?

I could believe it, if the tank had been searched on day one, and Noah found on day one. Its the few days in between him going missing, and then him being found in the septic tank directly after a tip that makes me think it wasn't as straight forward as you suggest might have happened.

You could be correct thought ........ but only if LE had been incredibly incompetent with regards to the search of the yard, and the family didn't think to mention they had a septic tank in the yard in their panic. If LE didn't think to search the tank for all that time, when there wasn't a single sighting of Noah outside of the home, then they have some serious questions to answer.

However, there is one way your theory would work. If Noah had managed to open the lid, and had fallen in and mum discovered him in there(or discovered the lid had been removed and guessed he was in there). If she panicked and secured the lid again, as she was worried about getting in trouble for sleeping and leaving Noah alone for 2 - 3 hours ..... and had then reported him missing, then that would tie up all the loose ends and make everything fit. The "hard tip" could be her admitting that she'd put the cover back on after finding it lying next to the hole for example.

 

[JeannaT]

But they said they looked in there prior to getting the tip. My guess is the lid was secured, no visible sign of Noah, so they moved on. If lid was ajar, or looked disturbed...I find it hard to believe any LE would not drain it. If not, reallyly bad mistake, Imo.

Also...is it possible he was put in after that initial viewing of the tank? Unlikely as I doubt all LE ever left the premises.

I agree they were remiss in not draining the septic tank if the lid seemed easy to open, but in the final analysis, that wouldn't have made any difference at all in the outcome. If they lifted the lid and saw nothing notable, he wasn't alive in there. I think he was drowned before LE was ever on the property. This isn't like the Jessica Lunsford case that's so heartbreaking because she WAS alive during the search and had they just had better tracking dogs she could have been rescued. THAT was a heartbreaker.

 

[JeannaT]

But what about the "hard tip" to look in the septic tank?

I could believe it, if the tank had been searched on day one, and Noah found on day one. Its the few days in between him going missing, and then him being found in the septic tank directly after a tip that makes me think it wasn't as straight forward as you put forward.

You could be correct thought ........ IF LE had been incredibly incompetent with regards to the search of the yard, and the family didn't think to mention they had a septic tank in the yard in their panic. But I can't buy that.

I "hard tip" I think could be a friend saying Noah likes to look in the septic tank. But I see what you're saying.

 

[JeannaT]

But, realistically, if septic tanks were THAT easy to just fall into and die, they'd be outlawed or have super heavy restrictions on them, right? (And I'm assuming they do have heavy restrictions on them).

And, alternatively, if a septic tank lid was faulty enough to allow someone to fall in and die....it would be pretty obvious from the outset that the septic tank had a faulty/broken lid and LE should look there.

Can anyone point to any cases where an accidental death happened in a septic tank where it was not at all obvious (i.e. broken/cracked/missing lid?)

I'm going to search for the story about this little boy who fell in to a septic tank when his dad was busy loading his baby sister and her carseat into a car after a party he and the kids attended. That child was gone in the blink of an eye, no evidence, no one saw it, and he had been seen about 5 minutes before he was suddenly missing. Evidence showed he lifted the lid, squatted on the side of the tank to look in, fell in, and the lid closed behind him. I think this is what happened to Noah. But there is a lot of information still missing in Noah's case.

Updated to add: I can't find it with a google search. The dad was alone with his two kids, it was a party at night, suddenly the boy was gone and the search lasted for days and the boy was found in the septic tank in the front yard days later. I'm sure I followed that case on this website.

 

[blue22]

Are there warrants in Noah 's case? I read at one point that they didn't need a warrant to search the family home cuz the parents gave permission (sorry no link for this handy).

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

In articles it was said all warrants are sealed. Even if parents give permission LE typically gets warrants, because it's just standard procedure.

ETA: I read the articles wrong. Sorry about that! I would imagine they still executed warrants to be thorough, but obviously there is no confirmation from anyone in LE regarding that.

When asked if search warrants had been filed in Noah’s disappearance, an assistant clerk at Pulaski County Circuit Court replied “everything in that case has been sealed.”

http://www.richmond.com/news/local/...cle_7a4d27bd-6c53-56b6-89ad-18a0043087d7.html

 

[deugirtni]

We have been thinking it is a simple thing for the ME to determine whether N was drowned or already deceased.. but in the meantime, someone reported that even if already deceased when put into liquid, the lungs can still eventually fill up with liquid? Also, it seems that even if the victim's COD *was* by drowning, the lungs won't necessarily fill up with liquid.

This is one of the interesting articles I came across: http://www.relentlessdefense.com/forensics/drowning/

Add-on: So it could be that perhaps in addition to toxicology tests, there could be many other tests being run.. there are all *kinds* of tests to determine things we can't even begin to imagine, since we are not trained pathologists.

 

[cluciano63]

If he fell in...it should have been very apparent as lid should not have been in place. The lid would have to been completely off for a child this size to fall in, Imo. Unless we are to assume someone else came along and re -secured it... which seems unlikely, Imo.

 

[hisjerseygirl]

I "hard tip" I think could be a friend saying Noah likes to look in the septic tank. But I see what you're saying.

if noah had liked to "look" in the septic tank (that was several feet underground...???) wouldn't this information have been offered to police when a friend/family member/whoever was being asked things like what he did outside or where he liked to be outside??

 

[Beesknees]

I have a feeling NOAH was not alive on Sunday... The discrepancies are too much. Also the half words from LE. Keep it clear and simple should be a must. The way the sheriff expresses himself is not clear. I mean I know he can't say too much. My point is that he has no communication skills and could be at least clear in the few things he can tell.
And no, I don´t think for one minut this was an accident at all. This cute unfortunate little boy didn't fell in that tank alone

 

[JeannaT]

If he fell in...it should have been very apparent as lid should not have been in place. The lid would have to been completely off for a child this size to fall in, Imo. Unless we are to assume someone else came along and re -secured it... which seems unlikely, Imo.

Sadly, that's not true. Some lids fall back down in place, on a "hinge".

 

[YidArmyRach]

I "hard tip" I think could be a friend saying Noah likes to look in the septic tank. But I see what you're saying.

I've just edited my comment. There is one way your idea could work.

 

[JeannaT]

I have a feeling NOAH was not alive on Sunday... The discrepancies are too much. Also the half words from LE. Keep it clear and simple should be a must. The way the sheriff expresses himself is not clear. I mean I know he can't say too much. My point is that he has no communication skills and could be at least clear in the few things he can tell.
And no, I don´t think for one minut this was an accident at all. This cute unfortunate little boy didn't fell in that tank alone

I have to ask, why do you feel that way? I will admit, I do seem to often be wrong in my "hunches". That boy looked really happy, healthy, well-cared for. In cases where children are killed by parents, they look haunted and their smiles look awful and strained typically. Good loving parents don't kill their children out of the blue and then hide their bodies in septic tanks.

So I have to ask. What has given you this feeling that they killed him and made this whole thing up?

 

[ANonyMs]

can someone point me to the comment about him last being seen with an older kid? someone mentioned it earlier that it was a small comment early on in the investigation?

Unless there has been something I missed, there hasn't been anything from LE or searchers specifically stating he was with an older kid.

When he very first was reported missing and it was announced to MSM, they stated he was possibly seen walking away or "on foot" with a white male. Another "missing" poster later said, "white male child". Those references quickly disappeared but many of us saw them. It has not been explained if that point was incorrect to begin with (a mistaken sighting) or if they scuttled that information for other reasons.

That idea has been picked up by some here at WS in a theory that if he were out playing with another child, it could have been an accident that the other child failed to report out of fear. Others have theorized on the thread that he may have been lured by an older child. We have nothing to back any of that up at this point.

 

[blue22]

I have to ask, why do you feel that way? I will admit, I do seem to often be wrong in my "hunches". That boy looked really happy, healthy, well-cared for. In cases where children are killed by parents, they look haunted and their smiles look awful and strained typically. Good loving parents don't kill their children out of the blue and then hide their bodies in septic tanks.

So I have to ask. What has given you this feeling that they killed him and made this whole thing up?

There are a lot of cases where children killed or abused by their parents look happy. It's in the news over and over. I don't even know how many cases I've seen where the parent didn't "look" the part, or the child was a seemingly normal and happy child.

 

[YidArmyRach]

There are a lot of cases where children killed or abused by their parents look happy. It's in the news over and over. I don't even know how many cases I've seen where the parent didn't "look" the part, or the child was a seemingly normal and happy child.

Slightly off topic, but I think the Sheriff's constant warnings about not listening to local gossip, probably alludes to things that we don't know about regarding the home life of Noah.

 

[Beesknees]

I have to ask, why do you feel that way? I will admit, I do seem to often be wrong in my "hunches". That boy looked really happy, healthy, well-cared for. In cases where children are killed by parents, they look haunted and their smiles look awful and strained typically. Good loving parents don't kill their children out of the blue and then hide their bodies in septic tanks.

So I have to ask. What has given you this feeling that they killed him and made this whole thing up?

I didn't say neither 'they' or 'she' or 'he' killed him because I don't know if it was a killing or a manslaughter and also don't know who did it.

I fully agree with you in that. All the pics I have seen from Noah showed me a good looking, happy and well cared child. Also in the baby photos I have seen from him.

But, I can´t explain why, it is a feeling inside me. Perhaps because I find difficult that a mom of so young children is able to take a so long nap. I can understand the nap, but not for so long. Then the fact that I never found anywhere being said that Noah was in public sight on Sunday, plus the fact that for me it is hightly unlikely that child could access the tank alone. If the access was easy they had search there throughly. I don't know.

So many things here that appear to be odd. The frame of time, for example. Assuming that I think nobody would be able to hide the child inside the tank after the mother called saying he had disappeared, I have to think he was there prior to that.
Thinking how quickly the LE was called - around 11 am on Sunday - I then think Noah was there before that day, or at least since before dawn.
Only an opinion based on my feelings about this case.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I just got back from the hospital.I've been gone all day and I'm getting caught up now. Maybe someone one confessed or confessed to another person and that person called in with a hard tip.Maybe someone heard or saw something and called in concerning some one else.In Jessica Ridgeways case his mother called in after Nancy Grace ran her story saying if the death penalty was an option.When did Nancy Grace run little Noah's story and when was this hard tip called in? What did she say on her show?

 

[Luvrosco]

Sadly, that's not true. Some lids fall back down in place, on a "hinge".

That's good to know. I was wondering if this could happen. So it actually is feasable that he could have opened it and fell in and the lid closed on its own.

 

[ANonyMs]

I need to correct myself. I don't think the references to Noah being with a white male child were actually on the missing posters. It was broadcast by MSM's in the initial reports of him being missing and attributed to "the police" but I don't see it on the posters.

Interestingly, this site also mentions that the report of him being with another white male child dropped off...scroll 1/3 way down at "Original Story") http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2015/03/noah-thomas-missing-5-year-old-from.html

Also, other random references (it is hard to produce an actual MSM on this as they all seem to update their stories now rather than posting new ones and I cannot find archived stories from the beginning of the search).

https://www.facebook.com/childabuse...1.1073741828.159069744297504/359887447549065/

http://www.breaking911.com/urgent-m...d-noah-terry-thomas-of-virginia-please-share/

http://thelostnmissing.blogspot.com/2015/03/endangered-missing-noah-terry-thomas-5.html

EDITED TO ADD: Even here at WS, members commented on the other child and then by the evening of the 22, that had faded off. The link one of our members quoted has since been changed but you can see early discussion of it here (I love that WS acts as repository for information!) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ski-22-March-2015&highlight=noah+terry+thomas


And on a separate note, as many of us have wondered about the timing of searching the septic, I just re-read this article. While we know that a credible tip came in, do we know *when* it came in exactly? It seems they were initially looking as far and wide as a 5 year old might have traveled on foot and then changed the focus?

http://www.wsls.com/story/28610627/...rch-for-noah-thomas-begin-methodical-approach

 

[iamnotagolem]

I just got back from the hospital.I've been gone all day and I'm getting caught up now. Maybe someone one confessed or confessed to another person and that person called in with a hard tip.Maybe someone heard or saw something and called in concerning some one else.In Jessica Ridgeways case his mother called in after Nancy Grace ran his story saying if the death penalty was an option.When did Nancy Grace run little Noah's story and when was this hard tip? What did she say on her show?

BBM, I mention Jessica Ridgeway's case a lot b/c I really appreciated how hard LE worked not only to find her and bring her killer to justice but they cleared the parents early on in the case which put an end to all of the speculation. It took me by surprise b/c I really thought the mom was involved, I thought her story sounded fishy. But by clearing the parents and making that announcement early on, it helped us all focus on finding the killer.

This is a very difficult case for me, Noah looks happy, I have a child the same age, but I can't imagine my child ever playing outside alone especially w/o a fenced yard or w/o being able to see him from in the house. I was very convinced Noah was dead from day one and very close to the home, but thought it would be months or years before his body was found. I thought he had simply gotten hurt or stuck somewhere and perished. Now I'm not so sure, there seems to be a lot more factors at play here than just he fell in or he was put in.

I really hope this is wrapped up quickly, the not knowing is stressful. So many emotions are involved for all of us as we fell in love with Noah, we want to be angry, we want someone to blame b/c no 5 year old should be listed in an obituary. No 5 y/o should be found in a septic tank.