GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[cluciano63]

OT, but with so many kids yet to be found...we can't really say that none died accidently and then were hidden, and reported missing instead. It could be a fairly frequent event. Jmo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

People don't make accidents look like murder - Jeff Ashton

If there was truly an "accident" in the home, I highly doubt the parents (even if freaking out) would toss his body into a container of feces and etc. IMO, where Noah was found does not indicate an accident unless he accidentally fell in.

I have to consider this possibility. Septic tanks fail and children do fall in.

I just don't see a parent tossing their child in the septic tank out back. I hope not anyway. I always hope for not the worst case scenario. I just can not help but just be so heartbroken for a child that could have fallen in there and been so terrorized by that.

 

[LorinMarie]

I think there is a difference between a legit accident such as accidental drowning, getting into cleaners and drinking them vs an "accident" where a a caregiver may leave out a stash of drugs, or a punishment maybe gets out of hand and a child dies but the caregiver did not intend for that to be the outcome. I feel that Noah fits into the second "accident" category. The responsible party did not set out to end his life but he perished due to the actions of another not intending to cause death. In that case the responsible party would know they will be in hot water if it it found out and thus tried to make it look like he wandered off on his own.

I feel if he fell in on his own that information would be confirmed by now. I have seen too many sad cases of children getting out and being found later on and the accident ruling was always released very quickly. The COD matched up to what was expected based on where they were found. I feel that the COD for Noah did not match up to what they would expect to find in a drowning and further research is needed. I could be wrong and they want to just be sure nothing is in his system first but LE went racing to the scene after the septic tip. If it came in as "oh have you checked the tank yet? It's possible he fell in" would have been maybe put on the need to research list and checked out but not send them rushing to the scene and poof there he is

 

[SeriouslySearching]

What I find fascinating is in all the years I have been here at WS I never heard of the theory that the child was killed accidentally and then the parent or parents hid the body. That seem to become a theory after the Anthony case.

Yet, when I searched during the Anthony case for any other case where it had ever happened before I found NONE. Not one case could I find showing where another parent accidentally killed their child and the child wound up discarded in a swamp or some other area. And I firmly don't believe it happened in Caylee's case either. And to this day I have never found another case showing any parent did what CA supposedly did while claiming Caylee's death was an accident. I don't expect to ever find one either because it was a lie. It was created out of thin air by defense lawyers who didn't mind telling lies to the jury they wanted to mislead.

And if a parent kills a child then it is not classified as accident. If they drugged him or if they hit him.....that is no accidental death. That is a homicide..........plain and simple.

All the parents I have seen who were responsible in their child's death immediately called 911 and fake it... saying the child had had an 'accident.' It is only when the child gets to the hospital it is shown that it was no accident at all but the child died or was seriously injured due to abuse.

I don't have any evidence that these parents ever abused Noah much less harmed him seriously enough to cause his death.

Imo they would investigate this as a criminal case until they know otherwise.

What none of us know.... because the Sheriff refuses to discuss it.... is how the lid was found when they first saw it.

And now after reading about Loic Rogers case this morning even if the lid was upright covering the septic tank it still could be a very tragic accident. That is two cases I have now read where if a child stands on the lid it will pivot like a trap door with them falling in and the lid flips back into its original place.

In the Rogers case LE didn't search the septic tank at first either because the lid was in its normal position.

But yet LE came to the determination through their own experiments that Loic's tragic death was an accident. And in the other case where a little girl fell in the septic tank that lid also rectified itself once swallowing her up. The only reason she was saved is someone saw the lid flip up and go back down.

So I am not ready to say anyone harmed Noah on purpose. I will do as the Sheriff has asked and wait for the evidence to come from his department.

I do hope they do their own experiments though just like they did in Loic's case if Noah's COD was due to drowning.

:goodpost: I agree with everything you said, Ocean.

I would like to reiterate one reason not to bring Noah's parents into this case on a negative campaign is because they are victims until LE comes out with the terms: Person Of Interest/s (POI) or Suspect/s. We know for a fact they lost their beloved child, Noah. We don't know anything else except LE says they are fully cooperative and extremely distraught. We are not allowed to discuss the parents as being guilty of harming their son to my knowledge. Perhaps a Mod can weigh in on this one. What say you, Mod?!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OT, but with so many kids yet to be found...we can't really say that none died accidently and then were hidden, and reported missing instead. It could be a fairly frequent event. Jmo

But we cant go by what we don't know. That is like trying to prove a negative. It cant be done.

And I really do believe if there was such an existing case as the Anthony claim there would be at least some... even if a few........even one other case where it had happened before yet there are none whatsoever to be found.

Which leads me to logically believe when children die from an accident the parents calls 911.

 

[wendybtn]

People don't make accidents look like murder - Jeff Ashton

If there was truly an "accident" in the home, I highly doubt the parents (even if freaking out) would toss his body into a container of feces and etc. IMO, where Noah was found does not indicate an accident unless he accidentally fell in.

When people panic, who knows what they would do?

 

[wendybtn]

:goodpost: I agree with everything you said, Ocean.

I would like to reiterate one reason not to bring Noah's parents into this case on a negative campaign is because they are victims until LE comes out with the terms: Person Of Interest/s (POI) or Suspect/s. We know for a fact they lost their beloved child, Noah. We don't know anything else except LE says they are fully cooperative and extremely distraught. We are not allowed to discuss the parents as being guilty of harming their son to my knowledge. Perhaps a Mod can weigh in on this one. What say you, Mod?!

There was a case in Florida in the last two weeks where a parent hid the dead body. The 1992 Baby Haley case in Atlanta was one I mentioned a few days ago. It is quite commonplace these days where older parents have other children and a lifestyle and reputation to lose, IMO.

 

[QueenD]

I'm glad they won't comment on it. Frankly, the location of that infant is not something the public should ever be privy to. It's not information that anyone has the right to know. People should understand that and support children's whereabouts being private. If someone is petty enough to start a rumor about that, then so be it.

I ask the question earlier up thread about the other child.

My reason for asking was not necessary the location of the Infant child but if the child was taken from the home, which would indicate to me LE felt the child was in danger or they suspect the parents had something to do with Noah's death.




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[oceanblueeyes]

There was a case in Florida in the last two weeks where a parent hid the dead body. The 1992 Baby Haley case in Atlanta was one I mentioned a few days ago. It is quite commonplace these days where older parents have other children and a lifestyle and reputation to lose, IMO.

And the COD of the children were ruled accidental? With no fault of the parent or parents whatsoever?

I am confused? What is quite commonplace? By saying it is commonplace that means it is happening often. So how many kids are dying an accidental death due to no fault of the parents and discarded/trashed in a swamp or some other area left to rot?

I do know I have read of mothers who have stored a stillborn in boxes before.

Could you please link the recent Florida case? tia

 

[wendybtn]

The thought of an accidental death leading to any parent disposing of a beloved child in such a horrible place doesn't sit well with me. Even Casey Anthony wasn't that cruel.


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No, Casey Anthony was worse, IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

When people panic, who knows what they would do?

Why would they panic if they aren't at fault and the child had a genuine accident?

Imo, anytime a dead child is found discarded in a swamp of some other place hidden away the parents knows they are responsible for their murder. Only murderers or abusers have the wherewithal to throw children away like garbage to rot. IMO

Imo, CA is a psychopath and that is why she could do this and it not even faze her.

 

[wendybtn]

And the COD of the children were ruled accidental? With no fault of the parent or parents whatsoever?

I am confused? What is quite commonplace? By saying it is commonplace that means it is happening often. So how many kids are dying an accidental death due to no fault of the parents and discarded/trashed in a swamp or some other area left to rot?

I do know I have read of mothers have stored a stillborn in boxes before.

Could you please link the recent Florida case? tia

An accidental death could be a smack that was harder than intended that led to a skull fracture. No death or permanent harm was intended, but it would still be some kind of manslaughter or child endangerment something.

 

[wendybtn]

Why would they panic if they aren't at fault and the child had a genuine accident?

Imo, anytime a dead child is found discarded in a swamp of some other place hidden away the parents knows they are responsible for their murder. Only murderers or abusers have the wherewithal to throw children away like garbage to rot. IMO

Imo, CA is a psychopath and that is why she could do this and it not even faze her.

Daddy pushed their head too hard into the stainless steel refrigerator could be an accidental death, too.

 

[blue22]

I think we won't hear anything more until after little Noah is laid to rest. The community needs to grieve for this little boy, but they also need some answers, and if answers aren't forthcoming after Wednesday, I'm worried this community will tear itself apart with rumors and accusations (our modern-day torches and pitchforks).

Even though I have a scenario in my mind of what may have played out, I will refrain from speculating anymore until after Wednesday. After that time, LE owes it to the community, if for no other reason to restore peace and calm, to give the public some answers. If, after a week or so, there is still no information released or arrests made, LE should be prepared to protect the three remaining members of Noah's family.

I'm not sure they have answers. Imagine the forensic evidence that was lost in that septic tank. What if they believe they know who did it, but there is nothing but loose circumstantial evidence against it? I have a feeling they are feverishly trying to build something with scraps. If this was anything other than a tragic accident, I think it will be a very hard one to prove. I should say, not hard to prove he did not die of an accident...but hard to prove WHO did it.

 

[cluciano63]

IF...this is a murder by family member...was Noah never to have been found? Seems like a poor choice of location if so, as with a child missing, sooner or later LE is bound to dig up the yard, etc...doesn't sound like the top/lid was left in a way to suggest an accidental fall, from what we have heard.

 

[blue22]

I remember when Summer was found and I was repulsed by what seemed to be the ultimate, final insult from her estranged husband and in laws, a disgusting F### U. Such a sickening act of disrespect for the mother of their children and grandchildren. I think that's what's so difficult for everyone to come to terms with in Noah's case. We've been reading for years of countless cases where an innocent child was killed by one of their parents and disposed of in various ways, but this is beyond what we can comprehend. Noah appears to have been loved by his parents. He looks well fed in clean clothes, he has plenty of toys to play with. If this proves to not be an accident, I can only think that whoever placed him in the septic tank had to be under the influence of some kind of drug. I'm not making accusations against the parents, I'm just trying to make sense of the denial within me

If only being well fed, with clean clothes and toys were the requirement for love and safety.

I worked in an advocacy center. Trust me when I say there are thousands and thousands of mistreated kids out there that come from "good families" and seem happy go lucky.

**That's not to imply that I know he was mistreated. It's just that it wouldn't surprise me, because what parents are capable of never surprises me anymore in general.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Daddy pushed their head too hard into the stainless steel refrigerator could be an accidental death, too.

What? An accident? That is abuse not an accident. What father pushes a child' little head into a steel refrigerator? Have they charged the father with murder or is LE thinking it was an accident. Did he hide the child's body?

And the other case you mentioned that child was murdered, no?



http://lawrenceville.11alive.com/news/news/gwinnett-child-murders-recall-1992-case/52878

 

[SeriouslySearching]

There was a case in Florida in the last two weeks where a parent hid the dead body. The 1992 Baby Haley case in Atlanta was one I mentioned a few days ago. It is quite commonplace these days where older parents have other children and a lifestyle and reputation to lose, IMO.

The cases are quite rare when you have an accidental death and someone chooses to make it look like a homicide. The cases of accidental drownings in septic tanks heavily outweigh accidents made to look like homicides.

Noah's parents are obviously not living a high profile lifestyle nor do I feel their reputation was a big concern to them. They weren't into climbing the social ladder, imo. They were more into climbing to reach the 2 car family status it seems.

 

[AnnaGrace]

Everything about this case is so sad and upsetting. My heart goes out to the landlord, who has publicly said Noah was like a grandchild to him. I'm sure this is so hard for him. It sounds like he lost his little buddy.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Daddy pushed their head too hard into the stainless steel refrigerator could be an accidental death, too.

Only an abusive dad would push a child's head too hard into anything. And no way could it be seen as an "accidental death".