GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[5CentsWorth]

How many cases do you know of parents that were sleeping and their kids disappeared from their own closed house'

This is one that was recently in the news from Philadelphia:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...incoat-sneaks-house-hops-bus-slushie-3AM.html

 

[Beesknees]

I think Noahs death will be ruled accidental....for whatever reason....and, the septic tank people will be blamed, sued, etc. Parents will move on, maybe with a big settlement, and all will be back to normal. Except that Noah is dead....at the age of 5....

Even, if by some strange twist, the mom is held responsible for neglect or even causing Noahs death.....dumped him in the septic tank, etc......she won't be held responsible. PPD will be blamed.

I don't agree with you. At all.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thank you so much for this post. It has been so hard to read people's posts saying there is nothing that could keep them from speaking up if it were their child.

My own mother is so painfully shy that I could see her completely not communicating to the press at all. I think the idea would cripple her. She is just very introverted.

There are a lot of people here who are clearly comfortable expressing their opinions, their passions, their position. They find words come easily. Some people just *don't* have that capability. Not for lack of care or intelligence, but just the way they are wired.

Exactly!!!

 

[gitana1]

No. She did not. She was up and went BACK to sleep and left her child to tend to himself for hours. That is a different than sleeping late one morning. Very different.

And I'm certainly not claiming to be a perfect parent, but no...I would not do this. Parents have the right to make mistakes, of course. But we should not be given so much leeway that we have the right to make some mistakes.

I don't think it's different. If she had fallen asleep for 10 minutes or overslept for 10 minutes and he got out people would still be screaming about how neglectful she was.

 

[Amster]

Haleigh Cummings, Lisa Irwin, Kyron Horman.....never found. Nobody held responsible.....just gone. At least the little body of Noah was found. I am grateful for that....

 

[YidArmyRach]

Until the Sheriff tells us directly he took the lid off that septic tank, I am not going to believe 2nd or 3rd hand information about how Noah found the hole.

In the tragedy today, the little 2 year old found the lid partially off.

Accidents happen and so many are preventable. Funny...it is why they call them "accidents". Let's wait to see if charges are brought on either case before we brand the parents as being neglectful or other things.

Sheriff Jim Davis, through the Pulaski County public information officer, said that FBI agents and Pulaski County investigators had already removed the two-pound plastic lid. They saw sludge, put the lid back on, and called the company to come drain the tank. We asked the technician what he did when he got to the home.

From: http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sanitation-technician-describes-discovery-of-noah-thomas/32052894

 

[matou]

I have to say that the community of Pulaski/Dublin has been amazing.

 

[gitana1]

Any lack of attention on the part of a parent that leads to their child's death, is negligent. And a mistake. We are not talking about a scraped knee here. So, let's just disagree.

And, she DID survive. Her 5 year old son did not.

No ma'am it's not. Any lack of attention is specifically not negligence or negligent. And one can argue that up is not up or down is not down but that doesn't make it a disagreement. The facts are clear. The law is clear. How we feel is not the standard. The law is.

Here is the law as it applies when a person dies as a result of another's negligence:

Criminal liability cannot be predicated upon every act carelessly performed merely because such carelessness results in the death of another. In order for criminal liability to result from negligence, it must necessarily be reckless or wanton and of such a character as to show disregard of the safety of others under circumstances likely to cause injury or death. Unless you believe from the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was guilty of negligence so culpable or gross as to indicate a callous disregard of human life and of the probable consequences of his act, you cannot find him guilty of involuntary manslaughter. http://lawofselfdefense.com/jury_instruction/va-vmji-33-610-criminal-negligence-definition/

 

[hockeymom4]

No ma'am it's not. Any lack of attention is specifically not negligence or negligent. And one can argue that up is not up or down is not down but that doesn't make it a disagreement. The facts are clear. The law is clear. How we feel is not the standard. The law is.

Here is the law as it applies when a person dies as a result of another's negligence:

No one said by law. Many of us believe by definition. Big difference.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negligent

And as Courtney said, agree to disagree.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Some of the rumors were that Noah's mother had already been arrested so her being at the funeral proved that to be false.

:moo:

Darlie Routier was at her son's funeral or at their grave site. It was used against her.

 

[courtneyb]

No ma'am it's not. Any lack of attention is specifically not negligence or negligent. And one can argue that up is not up or down is not down but that doesn't make it a disagreement. The facts are clear. The law is clear. How we feel is not the standard. The law is.

Here is the law as it applies when a person dies as a result of another's negligence:

I'd rather feel the way I do and have a living child, than to technically have the law on my side and a dead child.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SeriouslySearching]

From: http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sanitation-technician-describes-discovery-of-noah-thomas/32052894

I said "directly" not " through the Pulaski County public information officer".

 

[JeannaT]

I don't think a generation or two ago, this would be called negligence - sleeping 2.5 hours while your 5 year old amuses himself.

We now think of it that way, and I agree, I do too. But this standard of constant vigilance is new. A generation ago and before 5 year olds were expected to walk alone miles to school, to go to neighbor friends homes and back by themselves several blocks away, play outside all day and come home for supper, walk a couple miles to the nearest store and buy themselves candy alone or with a couple friends, etc.

The way I was raised would be considered neglectful now - and actually I'm kind of shocked we all lived to tell the tale. I was raised on an air force base where "benign neglect" was actually quite common. Kids have a strong will to survive and so usually they do.

But you can't help falling into a septic tank. Once you fall, no amount of self-preservation can save you. It's a blink of an eye kind of thing and irrecoverable.

 

[ANonyMs]

Re: kids gone missing from their home while parent(s) slept...

adding Danielle Van Dam to the list

 

[SeriouslySearching]

No one said by law. Many of us believe by definition. Big difference.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negligent

And as Courtney said, agree to disagree.

But we are talking about a criminal case vs. an accidental death and charges being brought. This means we are discussing the legal terms of neglect/negligence.

 

[JeannaT]

Re: kids gone missing from their home while parent(s) slept...

adding Danielle Van Dam to the list

Oh - are we counting kids who were kidnapped from their homes while their parents slept? I thought the list was kids who chose to wander away while their parents napped or slept. But wait - DVD's parents were at home, awake in the basement.

 

[cluciano63]

From: http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sanitation-technician-describes-discovery-of-noah-thomas/32052894

So if they removed the lid and looked inside...then it seems to me that the position of the lid did not lead them to believe that he may have opened it or that it was left open? That they were just kind of checking in a "better safe than sorry" way. At least that is how it sounds to me. I guess I can't quite believe that if lid had been off, or askew, that they wouldn't have drained it right then.

 

[Amster]

I don't think it's different. If she had fallen asleep for 10 minutes or overslept for 10 minutes and he got out people would still be screaming about how neglectful she was.

Screaming? Just because people disagree with an opinion doesn't mean they are "screaming"...:facepalm:

 

[JeannaT]

So if they removed the lid and looked inside...then it seems to me that the position of the lid did not lead them to believe that he may have opened it or that it was left open? That they were just kind of checking in a "better safe than sorry" way. At least that is how it sounds to me. I guess I can't quite believe that if lid had been off, or askew, that they wouldn't have drained it right then.

I wonder if they lifted the lid to look inside because the opposite was true - it DID look like he could get in? I wonder of they didn't know much about septic tanks and assumed it was a couple feet deep, and not seeing him, they thought he couldn't be in there?

 

[JeannaT]

Screaming? Just because people disagree with an opinion doesn't mean they are "screaming"...:facepalm:

I'm not sure she's talking about posters on Websleuths - I've certainly seen some of the most vicious posts I've ever read on SM, and I certainly would call them screaming.