GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #4

[Sparky]

Would someone please direct me to a link stating the parents are drug addicts, deal drugs, gave Noah drugs and that's his COD? I must have missed it. TIA

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Having empathy is not the same as having sympathy. It is also not the same as liking someone.

I am well aware of how the justice system works, and I have stated a few times now that I hope they get maximum time without parole. I also hope that AW is not treated leniently simply because she is a woman.

I don't see the DA in this case making any concessions because she is a woman or for other reasons. It was a horrific end and she should get what she deserves. The father should, too (whatever his role was in this).

 

[passionflower]

Loving arms are out there to adopt sweet children, if you have an addiction or do not want a child, PLEASE give the child to someone who wants and will love them.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The mug shots look nothing like they actually did at the time if you will look at the video taken of them immediately prior to the booking photos. Their camera and set up must be really lousy. Their hair is the wrong color and their faces are not even close to the right skin tone. I don't see how anyone can tell anything from mug shots about their emotions either. And what does it really matter? I care more about their actions leading up to a dead 5 year old and a 6 month old infant who just entered the system. (Media says the baby is 6 months old, but WSers seem to think she is 8-9 mos.? We should resolve that issue.)

All I have seen says the sister is 6 months old.

I agree. I really couldn't tell much by looking at the mug shots. He looked very serious in his and she had sort of a blank look on her face and that was all I saw.

Don't know what their expressions really mean though.

Some people can cry and their eyes don't swell up but boy I am sure not that way. I have cried so hard at funerals that my eyes were completely swollen shut where it was hard for me to even see.

 

[JeannaT]

I think what we all need to remember here is that everyone is just guessing what the evidence might be, and guessing who might be at fault for what part they played. LE is even guessing since they don't have the tox tests back and so the autopsy is not complete.

Everyone is guessing - and sometimes it seems helpful to remind ourselves of that. There's no need for everyone to kick each other in the shins because their best guess is not the same as your best guess.

 

[JeannaT]

All I have seen says the sister is 6 months old.

I agree. I really couldn't tell much by looking at the mug shots. He looked very serious in his and she had sort of a blank look on her face and that was all I saw.

Don't know what their expressions really mean though.

Some people can cry and their eyes don't swell up but boy I am sure not that way. I have cried so hard at funerals that my eyes completely swell shut where it was hard for me to even see.

I agree. Especially about expressions. I have a friend whose teenage son killed himself a couple years ago and for the first year she looked absolutely vacant. Like, no expression whatsoever would come across her face. She didn't cry, she didn't smile, she didn't frown. She just stared straight ahead blankly.

 

[gena]

So we still dont know how this poor little boy died?

 

[JeannaT]

So we still dont know how this poor little boy died?

No. Nothing whatsoever has been said about his cause or manner of death. So we don't know how he came to be in the septic tank, either.

 

[ANonyMs]

So we still dont know how this poor little boy died?

Unfortunately, no, and according to yesterdays press conference, it may take weeks or even months for that to be determined. There are links to the press release and conference in the media thread.

 

[vasportsmom]

So we still dont know how this poor little boy died?

No, we only know that both of his parents have been charged with committing felonious abuse against him and his sister on the day he was reported missing.


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[ANonyMs]

Did they ever bring in cadaver dogs, since it was referenced more as a recovery after a certain length of time?

Yes, there are a couple of reports that cadaver dogs were used and that was "normal" in this type of investigation.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It may be possible that the mom has a history that would make her prone to this, but it is a wild guess, I'm not mentioning it to bash them or judge them. LE has it under control. These cases get to people as they should. There was recent one from this winter, a little boy Kenneth White where his cousin killed him that just gets more horrible as the truth comes out. The community around his loss rallied and made changes that will make a difference to other kids. Most of all, as Steleheart's comment points out, Noah may have saved her sister.

Her mom looks a little like this to me. I think she may have had issues way before she had kids.

I thought of the very same thing this morning.

They say out of every bad comes good.

Noah certainly may have saved his sister's life which is so befitting since he was known to adore his baby sister and loved being protective of her.

He is now her guardian angel for the rest of her life. The tragic part about it is she is too young to remember her sweet brother. I hope whoever raises her always tells her how much he loved her.

IMO

 

[Ronso]

I can bawl my eyes out and look normal five minutes later. I mean, we can pick apart pictures and such, but really all it's going to be is a reflection of how we view the people in those photos.

And you know, it sort of makes me sick that people are jumping on the sister or whichever family member it was who said she was the "best mom, hands down". Her comments in court do ring sort of a narcissistic tone with me. And let me tell you, as the scapegoat child of a narcissist, they have an uncanny ability to project perfection to everyone outside of the household. My entire family thinks I am insane, and the cause for all of the strife that ever went on in our house, because I was the kid who got to shoulder the blame for all of the dysfunction. So, maybe she did appear to be a "perfect" mom to the family member who said that. Or maybe the family breeds narcissists who will say anything to keep their reputation squeaky clean. I don't know. But all I know is that I am not about to condone a bandwagon of nastiness towards a family that may very well be sincere and grieving. Aren't we all better than that?

But even so, I have empathy for narcissists. They are not born, they are taught. Where did her parents and the people in her life go wrong? I have empathy for that. I, however, have no sympathy for her. I harbor no hate, but I also am sickened by what little bit I know. I won't say what happened. I won't speculate. As a birder, I'd hate to ever have to eat crow. If they are responsible for his death, be it by negligence, or flat-out murder, then I hope they get the full punishment that's coming to them.

Hopefully, I won't have to hear anymore mockery and sarcasm towards those of us that aren't lighting up our torches and grabbing our pitchforks just yet.

 

[mpnola]

What we do know is that 2 adults are in jail right now for the abuse and neglect of 2 very young children. One of those children are dead. All of the other details are just details. The facts remain the same. They are in jail. Their son is dead. Not hurt. Not being ignored or mildly mistreated. He's dead at 5 years young. Poor little.

 

[wendybtn]

Not always. There are plenty of cases that are just too heinous for a DA to make a plea and they will take it to court.

I think the DA knows if he was to plea with one of them it would make the community very upset and he is an elected official.

If there are additional charges of murder then I suspect there wont be any plea deals offered at all for either one. Unless they both plea to LWOP.

Virginia has the death penalty. IMO, pleading guilty to avoid the death penalty, if applicable to the charges filed, is a plea deal.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree. Especially about expressions. I have a friend whose teenage son killed himself a couple years ago and for the first year she looked absolutely vacant. Like, no expression whatsoever would come across her face. She didn't cry, she didn't smile, she didn't frown. She just stared straight ahead blankly.

How sad for your friend. I am so sorry for her great loss. I know it had to be devastating for her or any parent.

When my hubby's nephew committed suicide by shooting himself with a shotgun at his grandparents home outside it almost destroyed both of them. Suicide also leaves so many victims behind.

IMO

 

[wendybtn]

I can bawl my eyes out and look normal five minutes later. I mean, we can pick apart pictures and such, but really all it's going to be is a reflection of how we view the people in those photos.

And you know, it sort of makes me sick that people are jumping on the sister or whichever family member it was who said she was the "best mom, hands down". Her comments in court do ring sort of a narcissistic tone with me. And let me tell you, as the scapegoat child of a narcissist, they have an uncanny ability to project perfection to everyone outside of the household. My entire family thinks I am insane, and the cause for all of the strife that ever went on in our house, because I was the kid who got to shoulder the blame for all of the dysfunction. So, maybe she did appear to be a "perfect" mom to the family member who said that. Or maybe the family breeds narcissists who will say anything to keep their reputation squeaky clean. I don't know. But all I know is that I am not about to condone a bandwagon of nastiness towards a family that may very well be sincere and grieving. Aren't we all better than that?

But even so, I have empathy for narcissists. They are not born, they are taught. Where did her parents and the people in her life go wrong? I have empathy for that. I, however, have no sympathy for her. I harbor no hate, but I also am sickened by what little bit I know. I won't say what happened. I won't speculate. As a birder, I'd hate to ever have to eat crow. If they are responsible for his death, be it by negligence, or flat-out murder, then I hope they get the full punishment that's coming to them.

Hopefully, I won't have to hear anymore mockery and sarcasm towards those of us that aren't lighting up our torches and grabbing our pitchforks just yet.

Narcissism is a personality disorder. Personality disorders, at this time, have no treatment, no meds to help. Life experiences may influence how badly your disorder affects you. But a true medical diagnosis of a personality disorder is something with which you are born. RN '87

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Virginia has the death penalty. IMO, pleading guilty to avoid the death penalty, if applicable to the charges filed, is a plea deal.

That is good to know because this could wind up being a capital case especially if they were in the middle of another felony when Noah was killed.

They may do that, but there again there are some cases that are just too heinous where a DA will do no plea deal. They will go to trial and ask for death. There are quite a few on death row who murdered their children.

IMO

 

[Ronso]

Narcissism is a personality disorder. Personality disorders, at this time, have no treatment, no meds to help. Life experiences may influence how badly your disorder affects you. But a true medical diagnosis of a personality disorder is something with which you are born. RN '87

I'd like a link to proof of that. Most of what I read, they believe narcissists are created. While I'm certain people are born with certain qualities that make them more susceptible to becoming a narcissist, I find it hard to believe anybody is born with it. I've dealt with narcissists throughout my life. Being a scapegoat child sort of turned me into a magnet for them. I've never seen clear cut evidence that anyone is born a narcissist. But, I am always willing to learn more about it.

 

[courtneyb]

Narcissism is a personality disorder. Personality disorders, at this time, have no treatment, no meds to help. Life experiences may influence how badly your disorder affects you. But a true medical diagnosis of a personality disorder is something with which you are born. RN '87

Thank you. RN '99.


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