GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[Teche]

Mpnola, your mom sounds like me. As a child I was rolled over by a car on 2 different occasions and hit by a car once...all accidents.

 

[iamnotagolem]

MSM articles have quoted the arrest reports as saying whatever happened that brought the current charges both parents face "led to Noah's death".

His parents would not have been arrested and charged with felonies if an accident had occurred.

I would like to know why AW had to drive PT to work that morning anyway. Why did she need the car? Seems like he could have driven himself and then come home on lunch and had her drive him back if she needed it later.

My guess is they didn't volunteer the info about leaving the kids home alone until they were confronted with the video evidence that they were seen in the store without the kids. At that point LE knew they had left the kids unattended somewhere, either in the car or at home.

I think someone linked up thread that PT's license had been suspended or revoked.

 

[courtneyb]

It's possible that the parents' neglect allowed the opportunity for someone else to put him in the septic tank, but I think LE probably would have let the public know that they are looking for a killer that put Noah in a septic tank. It doesn't appear to me that they are doing anything other than holding the parents, waiting for the tox reports to come back (they can and have determined IF drugs were present at the initial autopsy, but to determine levels, possibly route and time of ingestion/administering requires more extensive testing)


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[passionflower]

was Noah wearing his boots and camo jacket in the walmart video..............
when judge said he 'wouldn't allow AW in the house with any child'................that says allot............whatdid she do to Noah??? STRONG message IMO

 

[weeksauce007]

A few months ago my crazy mother called CPS to report me for letting my oldest stay home alone one weekend.
He's nearly 20 ...


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I'm sorry as that must've been upsetting that your mother did that... But, that's pretty darn funny! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

I have 2 young children. (Now 5.5 & 7). They're only 19 mo apart. My husband works very long hours. In no way am is super mom, but I can honestly say it never ever ever once crossed my mind to leave my children alone to go anywhere! Literally, they'd be in pj's & rainboots some mornings at the market with me...




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[weeksauce007]

This is a hard story to retell as it's painful to even think back on. But I tell it to let you all know how I was treated by LE, etc. during an incredibly terrifying moment in my life as a mother.
Remember when I said I wasn't super mom.... When my son was just over 2, and my daughter 9 mo. we were in the process of moving. My husband was at work, I was trying to get our home packed & 2 little ones entertained. That day I was packing some bathroom things & I was being plastic tubs of toiletries into the playroom where the kids were playing to go through & pack what we wouldn't need while we were still living at the old house. In one tub were some of my husband's medications (all with childproof prescription bottle lids).
I made the mistake of leaving the playroom to use the bathroom & was gone for maybe 2-3 min. In that time my son was able to get a prescription bottle open & ingest the meds. The meds were prescribed to my husband for anxiety associated with flying.
I came back into the room to see my baby boy barely able to hold his head up or speak. He couldn't stand at all. Then I saw the pills & bottle. To this day I do not recall calling 911 & then my neighbor. But apparently I did.
I was beyond hysterical. When the ambulance & LE arrived (& my neighbor) they weren't going to allow me to ride in the ambulance but I must've thrown such a fit- because they did allow me to. My neighbor stayed with my baby girl until my MIL arrived. At the hospital I was interviewed by CPS. I wasn't ever formally interviewed (other than them asking what had happened) by LE. CPS did not file a report against me. My son was in the hospital for 4 days & I never left him. My husband would bring our baby for me to nurse at the hospital. I just couldn't leave my boy. Thank the Lord my son fully recovered & is now a fabulous, smart, funny & loving 7 year old. He, of course has no recollection of that horrible day. But I will never forget it. Ever. We've kept all of our medications kept on a locked box since that day.

I tell you this story b/c I just feel that if Noah accidentally took meds or something he shouldn't have, I honestly (regardless of the drugs mom & dad are on) do not see how they could not have called for help right then. I sadly feel that there was some type of abuse that ended Noah's life. I don't feel like anything about this was an accident, which is just so so sad. I pray Noah's baby sister goes on to do great things & I know she'll always hold part of her big brother in her heart.

Apologies for the lengthy post...


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[courtneyb]

This is a hard story to retell as it's painful to even think back on. But I tell it to let you all know how I was treated by LE, etc. during an incredibly terrifying moment in my life as a mother.
Remember when I said I wasn't super mom.... When my son was just over 2, and my daughter 9 mo. we were in the process of moving. My husband was at work, I was trying to get our home packed & 2 little ones entertained. That day I was packing some bathroom things & I was being plastic tubs of toiletries into the playroom where the kids were playing to go through & pack what we wouldn't need while we were still living at the old house. In one tub were some of my husband's medications (all with childproof prescription bottle lids).
I made the mistake of leaving the playroom to use the bathroom & was gone for maybe 2-3 min. In that time my son was able to get a prescription bottle open & ingest the meds. The meds were prescribed to my husband for anxiety associated with flying.
I came back into the room to see my baby boy barely able to hold his head up or speak. He couldn't stand at all. Then I saw the pills & bottle. To this day I do not recall calling 911 & then my neighbor. But apparently I did.
I was beyond hysterical. When the ambulance & LE arrived (& my neighbor) they weren't going to allow me to ride in the ambulance but I must've thrown such a fit- because they did allow me to. My neighbor stayed with my baby girl until my MIL arrived. At the hospital I was interviewed by CPS. I wasn't ever formally interviewed (other than them asking what had happened) by LE. CPS did not file a report against me. My son was in the hospital for 4 days & I never left him. My husband would bring our baby for me to nurse at the hospital. I just couldn't leave my boy. Thank the Lord my son fully recovered & is now a fabulous, smart, funny & loving 7 year old. He, of course has no recollection of that horrible day. But I will never forget it. Ever. We've kept all of our medications kept on a locked box since that day.

I tell you this story b/c I just feel that if Noah accidentally took meds or something he shouldn't have, I honestly (regardless of the drugs mom & dad are on) do not see how they could not have called for help right then. I sadly feel that there was some type of abuse that ended Noah's life. I don't feel like anything about this was an accident, which is just so so sad. I pray Noah's baby sister goes on to do great things & I know she'll always hold part of her big brother in her heart.

Apologies for the lengthy post...


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Thank you so much for sharing. That must have been terrifying! And you did what any "super mom" would do... You called for help when your child needed help and you saved his life. :grouphug:

 

[vasportsmom]

This is a hard story to retell as it's painful to even think back on. But I tell it to let you all know how I was treated by LE, etc. during an incredibly terrifying moment in my life as a mother.
Remember when I said I wasn't super mom.... When my son was just over 2, and my daughter 9 mo. we were in the process of moving. My husband was at work, I was trying to get our home packed & 2 little ones entertained. That day I was packing some bathroom things & I was being plastic tubs of toiletries into the playroom where the kids were playing to go through & pack what we wouldn't need while we were still living at the old house. In one tub were some of my husband's medications (all with childproof prescription bottle lids).
I made the mistake of leaving the playroom to use the bathroom & was gone for maybe 2-3 min. In that time my son was able to get a prescription bottle open & ingest the meds. The meds were prescribed to my husband for anxiety associated with flying.
I came back into the room to see my baby boy barely able to hold his head up or speak. He couldn't stand at all. Then I saw the pills & bottle. To this day I do not recall calling 911 & then my neighbor. But apparently I did.
I was beyond hysterical. When the ambulance & LE arrived (& my neighbor) they weren't going to allow me to ride in the ambulance but I must've thrown such a fit- because they did allow me to. My neighbor stayed with my baby girl until my MIL arrived. At the hospital I was interviewed by CPS. I wasn't ever formally interviewed (other than them asking what had happened) by LE. CPS did not file a report against me. My son was in the hospital for 4 days & I never left him. My husband would bring our baby for me to nurse at the hospital. I just couldn't leave my boy. Thank the Lord my son fully recovered & is now a fabulous, smart, funny & loving 7 year old. He, of course has no recollection of that horrible day. But I will never forget it. Ever. We've kept all of our medications kept on a locked box since that day.

I tell you this story b/c I just feel that if Noah accidentally took meds or something he shouldn't have, I honestly (regardless of the drugs mom & dad are on) do not see how they could not have called for help right then. I sadly feel that there was some type of abuse that ended Noah's life. I don't feel like anything about this was an accident, which is just so so sad. I pray Noah's baby sister goes on to do great things & I know she'll always hold part of her big brother in her heart.

Apologies for the lengthy post...


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*Hugs* You're a great mom and your kids are lucky to have you!

ETA: Courtney is right (if you tell her I said that I will deny, deny, deny), you did what a super mom should have.

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[themom]

Let's say as a possible theory Noah was playing outside alone and fell in septic tank and mom realized this and put the lid on and reported him missing. I would say that would still at the very least be a manslaughter charge because she didn't seek help! The fact that remains unwavering is no matter what type of accident could have occurred, not seeking immediate help is neglect. Even if I thought I might go to jail I would still call 911 if I thought my baby was hurt.

I'm starting to think it is possible that he fell in on his own. I don't think it's likely, but possible, had the stars been aligned in the exact wrong way...

Mostly I think Noah died due to drug ingestion (either accidental or given by the parents purposely), he died (likely not the intention), they freaked and hid the body. Maybe they attempted to sedate the kids so AW could drive PT to work, and then she came home to him not breathing.

The baby was said to have very bad respiratory problems. Opioids can cause respiratory failure, I wonder if the baby was given a low dose and they found that in her system...or smoke inhalation from PT's marijuana. I just really feel the drugs played a major part, maybe accidentally but likely intentional...

 

[courtneyb]

I'm starting to think it is possible that he fell in on his own. I don't think it's likely, but possible, had the stars been aligned in the exact wrong way...

Mostly I think Noah died due to drug ingestion (either accidental or given by the parents purposely), he died (likely not the intention), they freaked and hid the body. Maybe they attempted to sedate the kids so AW could drive PT to work, and then she came home to him not breathing.

The baby was said to have very bad respiratory problems. Opioids can cause respiratory failure, I wonder if the baby was given a low dose and they found that in her system...or smoke inhalation from PT's marijuana. I just really feel the drugs played a major part, maybe accidentally but likely intentional...

I really do not believe at all that the parents had any intention of ending Noah's life. I would be surprised if one or both intentionally killed him.

 

[themom]

I really do not believe at all that the parents had any intention of ending Noah's life. I would be surprised if one or both intentionally killed him.

I lean towards thinking unintentional, also...like maybe even unknown that they even did it bc they were so drugged themselves.
I wish they would release more about what was discovered about the baby.

 

[mpnola]

Exactly! Accidents happen! Responsible or loving or humane people react with trying to help/ get others to help. Especially your child!

 

[kshultz06082]

I'd have to borrow one.. I gave mine away a couple weeks ago.

Do you need it back? I'm all done with it.

 

[courtneyb]

Do you need it back? I'm all done with it.

That would be great. It really helps when I'm rounding up folks to bring to my burnin' stake.


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[kshultz06082]

I ran across this article which gives the guidelines for minimum age allowable to leave your children home alone...

http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

According to this, there is no minimum age a child has to be to be legally left home alone in Virginia. And, shockingly, also in most states.

How is this possible? If this is correct, how can LE or DFS conclude neglect based just on the fact that kids are left alone? Clearly, in Noah's case, something went terribly awry (and it may have happened before the parents even left in the morning and sustained neglect certainly may have been present).

From everyone's posts, I can see that most everyone feels that five (and certainly 6-8 months) is too young to be left at home alone, for any amount of time. What age is okay? 8? 9? 12? How much time alone? Just curious. I think small amounts of time are okay once they are around 9-11 if they can demonstrate responsibility and what not.

I think that depends on the child too. My oldest, I never left alone until he was 13 because he was not responsible in any way. My 11 year old has always shown great responsibility, so I will leave her home alone for a short period like a trip to the store or right after school if i have a dr appt or something. Usually the now 16 year old is with her, but honestly, the house could be burning down around him and he would be oblivious until it effected his video game. My 5 year old? Yea, he wont be staying home alone for a VERY long time. There is nothing a 5 year old could do that would make me think he was responsible enough to be alone. I wont even get into a 6 month old being left alone. No responsible ADULT would think that a kid can be left alone at those ages.

 

[Schmaley]

So far I do not see 2 dangerous criminals here.I see 2 young parents who made some bad parenting choices that they will have to live with the rest of their lives.We still don't know the whole story.
For all we know maybe the kids were sleeping and they didn't want to wake them up and thought it would be safe to leave them in the few minutes they'd be gone.Maybe they only smoked their pot late at night in the bedroom.Maybe mom just didn't realize how bad of a cold the baby had.
This is so sad for all involved.

No one has luck that bad.

 

[weeksauce007]

*Hugs* You're a great mom and your kids are lucky to have you!

ETA: Courtney is right (if you tell her I said that I will deny, deny, deny), you did what a super mom should have.

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Thank you both for your kind words. I guess I just don't understand how if he infested something or even if they hit him & realized he was in danger, they didn't just instinctively call for help?
I get that drugs do things to your mind etc. but I feel like if you're that out of your mind on drugs, how do you go to work, drive to work, etc.? Maybe I'm just naive to the drug issue... I don't know. This case makes me so sad for this entire community.


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[Schmaley]

I stepped away from this for a week. I have breezed through some discussion here and will try to catch up. You can't leave a child alone in a home sleeping or not. I tend to argue that leaving a 5 year old alone while sleeping is even more dangerous than awake because he might wake up and be terrified or leave the house in search of the parent, etc.

I am wondering about the respiratory stuff with the baby . Glad she got help and ftr, I am a little surprised that social workers made a medical diagnosis or maybe the reporting is incorrect and sw ' s only suspected it. That's being nitpicky but cps workers aren't doctors and those lines cannot be blurred.

Hope to catch up here. If my stomach (and heart) can handle it.

 

[SStarr33]

Did they find evidence of heroin use?

 

[kshultz06082]

That would be great. It really helps when I'm rounding up folks to bring to my burnin' stake.


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I will overnight mail it to ya. :crazy: