Ugh - "normal" and "until this issue can be resolved" are being thrown around as if this is some kind of simple misunderstanding.
Certainly, the judge isn't misunderstanding him. - “Mr. Thomas has been deceptive. I cannot take his assertions at face value.” -
Agreed. PT's charges may be lesser than AW's but his attitude surely stinks.
Neglect that led to his death could be that they left him home unattended which caused his death.
Nobody still knows how he ended up in the septic tank.It has not been confirmed that it wasn't an accident.
And if Noah had fell and cracked his head on an end table and died while mom was doing the dishes I suppose she should still deserve to be punished for not being there to catch the fall.
You are right, tresptip, we do not have confirmation that it was not an accident. He could have fallen in the septic tank...but then someone had to put the lid on before LE arrived.
As for the coffee table example...I respectfully disagree that it is a valid comparison. If a mother is in the home, she might hear the bump or thud, or at least she would surely come upon and find the child passed out within a few minutes. And then a reasonable, responsible reaction would be to call 911 for medical assistance. A child home alone who experiences an accident does not have the benefit of having aid rendered immediately or within a short time after the accident occurs. And a child who experiences an accident wherein the parent fails to call for help at all has virtually no chance.
Do you know, just a ballpark guess, what the temperature was in Dublin on March 22/23rd?
It was in some of the early MSM articles...I found archived data for Mar 25 - overnight lows were in the 30's and 40's. Highs in the low 60's.
Please show me where the charges include murder or manslaughter. This did not end up in the "physical injury" category. This was a death. They obviously have not determined if Noah went in alone or if he was placed in the tank so I don't see how you can conclude it as a fact. When LE and the DA make that determination...the charges will reflect their theory which they will then try to prove in court. They are not there yet. I read the charges and it is very clear to me.
I am confused. I thought one of AW's charges DID include the physical injury category?
From Roanoke Times
http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...cle_317ae1ed-ccc2-52cc-bb94-0ebfb2e94095.html
Ashley White was charged under two different subsections of the law. One charge, like Thomas’, relates to “reckless disregard for human life” and carries with it the same punishment. However, she is also being charged under a more serious subsection that is a Class 4 felony which is punishable by no less than two years and no more than 10 years.
That subsection involves “serious injuries” to a child that were received under an adult’s care. Those injuries, as defined by state code include: “disfigurement, a fracture, a severe burn or laceration, mutilation, maiming, forced ingestion of dangerous substances, or life threatening internal injuries.” (BBM)
An angry mob with torches can also deny a person bond too.
"Thomas' attorney, Lindsay Honeycutt, argued that under normal circumstances his client would be granted bond, but the “highly publicized nature” of the case has contributed to the matter."
I think that most defense attorneys would say something to that effect. Looking back what what they judge said, I don't think this is the sole reason PT was denied bond. She flat out said, “Mr. Thomas has been deceptive. I cannot take his assertions at face value.”
I have to wonder what they stopped at the convenience store for that morning. That's where they were seen on video, right? What was so important that they risked being caught on video w/o their kids?
I think they were probably somewhat in the habit of leaving their kids unattended, so it wasn't something that stood out as a time they needed to be cautious. Since we are all looking at this in reverse, realizing that Noah died that morning, it makes less sense that they would careless enough to be caught on camera. But if they were just doing the normal leave for awhile and let the kids wake up by themselves, then they wouldn't know that eventually someone was going to rewind that video and see they didn't have the kids in the car.
Yes, I agree. I think that if you are of the mentality that leaving your kids at home alone is ok, why wouldn't it be ok to stop at the store? And while many here speculate that Noah perished the night before, if he hadn't, then AW & PT may have just been going about their lives, business as usual. Why avoid a camera when they think they aren't doing anything wrong?
I ran across this article which gives the guidelines for minimum age allowable to leave your children home alone...
http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm
According to this, there is no minimum age a child has to be to be legally left home alone in Virginia. And, shockingly, also in most states.
How is this possible? If this is correct, how can LE or DFS conclude neglect based just on the fact that kids are left alone? Clearly, in Noah's case, something went terribly awry (and it may have happened before the parents even left in the morning and sustained neglect certainly may have been present).
From everyone's posts, I can see that most everyone feels that five (and certainly 6-8 months) is too young to be left at home alone, for any amount of time. What age is okay? 8? 9? 12? How much time alone? Just curious. I think small amounts of time are okay once they are around 9-11 if they can demonstrate responsibility and what not.
That article is not complete. The Virginia code specifies that the maturity of the child and the circumstances must be considered. Some of the examples given are if the child has access to an adult (knows how to go to a neighbors house, knows how to call 911). It is not just a blanket allowance of all children of any ages to be left unattended. Virginia also allows for each county to add their own stipulations to this code. This was discussed at length in a previous thread.
http://www.wset.com/story/28809827/update-noah-thomas-case-both-parents-bond-hearings-today
"At the afternoon bond hearing for Ashley White, Noah's mother, White's defense team called Dennis Cales to the stand. Cales, White's uncle, told the court he would allow White to live in his home in Giles County. White said his 11-year-old granddaughter lives with him and his wife.
"Putting her into a home with a child is unthinkable at this point," said Judge Karen Loftin, just before ordering White continue to be held without bond.
BBM
Pretty strong statement from the judge. I'd say a true accident is probably pretty low on the list of "What happened here?"
Agreed. I will maintain that it is possible until proven otherwise but I agree that it is pretty low on the list. I think this judge speaks volumes in her simple statements.
This whole thread would be different if sometime that morning there was a 911 call from mom saying an accident had happened verses a 5 day search which ended with finding his body in a septic tank. We would actually all feel bad for her I imagine. We may still question if he should or shouldnt have been allowed to play outside without supervision but we would all think "God how awful".
This whole thread wouldn't be here b/c there would be nothing to Sleuth. There are no cases on WS of perfectly innocent people acting responsibly and telling the whole truth in a timely manner. And you're right...I think there might be a fair amount of "how could she let that happen?" but we would all feel sorry for her while reading about it in the news and not here.
They could be still be charged with felonies if neglect caused an accidental death.
Agreed. In fact...I think a lot of people are reading in to the charges to interpret that AW's actions were intentional.
I think someone linked up thread that PT's license had been suspended or revoked.
I think it was surmised based on sharing a car and someone sleuthed a prior DUI against him but then I thought someone else cautioned as there are actually more than one Paul Thomas living in that part of the state. If you notice, he is often referred to including his middle name.
It's possible that the parents' neglect allowed the opportunity for someone else to put him in the septic tank, but I think LE probably would have let the public know that they are looking for a killer that put Noah in a septic tank. It doesn't appear to me that they are doing anything other than holding the parents, waiting for the tox reports to come back (they can and have determined IF drugs were present at the initial autopsy, but to determine levels, possibly route and time of ingestion/administering requires more extensive testing)
I agree. I think Sheriff Davis made it very clear that the public had no one else to fear from.
I think that depends on the child too. My oldest, I never left alone until he was 13 because he was not responsible in any way. My 11 year old has always shown great responsibility, so I will leave her home alone for a short period like a trip to the store or right after school if i have a dr appt or something. Usually the now 16 year old is with her, but honestly, the house could be burning down around him and he would be oblivious until it effected his video game. My 5 year old? Yea, he wont be staying home alone for a VERY long time. There is nothing a 5 year old could do that would make me think he was responsible enough to be alone. I wont even get into a 6 month old being left alone. No responsible ADULT would think that a kid can be left alone at those ages.
Yep. That. Great example.
Shallow or labored breathing, even, I would think would be obvious and enough cause for concern.
...Inspiratory stridor, wheezing, gravelly sounding, sucking chest....
I'm sorry, but I know a LOT of people that smoke pot. Daily, weekly, whatever. Whatever these parents were doing was NOT just pot. No way, no how.
There is way more to this story.
Yeah, I think a lot of people are making a lot out about the pot but smoking around your kids, even in the same house where 3rd hand smoke could have impacted their health, is not ok.
