GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[BrownRice]

Heroin......

I seem to recall that shortly after the parents were arrested, online comments (outside of WS) were stating it was well-known in the community they were heroin users. Not sure if it's true. I know when I first saw their mugshots, I thought meth (only because they looked HORRIBLE and zoned out). They looked like they were on something. Maybe instead of heroin they are addicted to oxycontin or something like that (the online articles yesterday said pot and RX pills were found). That's a pretty pricy addiction though, isn't it?

Another question, some posters have suggested maybe they gave the kids heroin - why would they? Wouldn't most drug users NOT want to share their drugs (esp with kids) because it would be less for them? Just wondering the rationale behind that.

 

[tresptip]

:happydance: sorry made me laugh.

But seriously. I think it has a lot to do with maturity of child/children. 20 yes, but someone else could have a physically or mentality challenged 20 yr old and it would be a whole diff situation. I think that's why some laws are broad. I think it gives the LEO authorities more ability being broad. JMHO

I know my brothers and I stayed home alone or in car while parents shopped and it was just common. LOL we would fight and whatever, but just way it was yrs ago. But when I was grown and had my children, times had changed and I did things with them that I would NEVER even think about doing with my grandchildren.

That's one of the biggest problems with parenting today.In the past ,some kids were brought up in lenient households where the kids had more freedom,and some children were more trustworthy.
Some of those children grow up completely oblivious to the changing times.All they know is how they were raised.And they also don't realize that even though they were trustworthy when they were a child that doesn't mean their child is going to be just as trustworthy with the same commonsense.
Back in the day,they were allowed to go out in play at 5 or 6 by themselves,and no one thought nothing of it back then.If a parent felt their child was responsible back then ,a mom might have even went to the store and let the child stay home.These kids grow up thinking its ok to do that since they were allowed to do it when they were kids.
IMO , parenting classes should be mandatory if anyone decides they are going to have children.

 

[tresptip]

Heroin......

I seem to recall that shortly after the parents were arrested, online comments (outside of WS) were stating it was well-known in the community they were heroin users. Not sure if it's true. I know when I first saw their mugshots, I thought meth (only because they looked HORRIBLE and zoned out). They looked like they were on something. Maybe instead of heroin they are addicted to oxycontin or something like that (the online articles yesterday said pot and RX pills were found). That's a pretty pricy addiction though, isn't it?

Another question, some posters have suggested maybe they gave the kids heroin - why would they? Wouldn't most drug users NOT want to share their drugs (esp with kids) because it would be less for them? Just wondering the rationale behind that.

IMO, neither parent looked like heavy drug users in their pictures.They did look like they were mentally exhausted,and tired though.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just had a thought.... Mom and Dad left baby sister at home too... Both Noah and baby sister. Cant imagine leaving both kids home, but sure cant believe they left the infant home alone knowing that Noah was deceased.

The fact that they stopped at a store, makes me think this wasn't the first time they had left the kids home in bed. I would think their demeanor on video would tell a lot. JMO

 

[arkansasmimi]

That's one of the biggest problems with parenting today.In the past ,some kids were brought up in lenient households where the kids had more freedom,and some children were more trustworthy.
Some of those children grow up completely oblivious to the changing times.All they know is how they were raised.And they also don't realize that even though they were trustworthy when they were a child that doesn't mean their child is going to be just as trustworthy with the same commonsense.
Back in the day,they were allowed to go out in play at 5 or 6 by themselves,and no one thought nothing of it back then.If a parent felt their child was responsible back then ,a mom might have even went to the store and let the child stay home.These kids grow up thinking its ok to do that since they were allowed to do it when they were kids.
IMO , parenting classes should be mandatory if anyone decides they are going to have children.

Well, I am older than this couple, they are my kids age.. so I am speaking of their parents generation. There is a lot that goes into why people do what they do.

And on the parenting classes... that makes me laugh out loud. I know people who read all these books and then when the baby gets here .. that wasn't in the book! Some things are common sense, trial and error and so forth. What works for one child doesn't for another. I understand what your saying, in theory, but in Reality, that's different story.

 

[tresptip]

Well, I am older than this couple, they are my kids age.. so I am speaking of their parents generation. There is a lot that goes into why people do what they do.

And on the parenting classes... that makes me laugh out loud. I know people who read all these books and then when the baby gets here .. that wasn't in the book! Some things are common sense, trial and error and so forth. What works for one child doesn't for another. I understand what your saying, in theory, but in Reality, that's different story.

Well, safety classes is what I had in mind,not necessarily behavior classes.
It would still help some.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

I don't for one single minute believe that little Noah just happened to accidentally fall into the septic tank, not in a million trillion years. Given the serious charges against the parents, the fact that neither of them made bond, the fact that the little baby was removed from the home so quickly.....IMO that means these children had a horrible life inside that home, whether it be blatant neglect or various degrees of physical abuse.....but little Noah ended up in that septic tank at the hand of one/both parents in an attempt to frantically cover up his previous death....whether that death was by accident, physical abuse, intentional or accidental overdose, etc.

You don't know that someone put the lid on after he fell in.He could have fallen in while pulling the lid off and then the lid fell back in place.

Even if she had been home when he fell into the septic tank,She still would not have had enough time to save him.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

I guess the video of them at the store has not been released, has it? I'd be super curious to know just exactly what purchases were made at the store..........cleaning supplies? (bleach).....items that they thought might help them conceal his death?........rubber gloves?........

Just had a thought.... Mom and Dad left baby sister at home too... Both Noah and baby sister. Cant imagine leaving both kids home, but sure cant believe they left the infant home alone knowing that Noah was deceased.

The fact that they stopped at a store, makes me think this wasn't the first time they had left the kids home in bed. I would think their demeanor on video would tell a lot. JMO

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

You must have seen different pictures. The Dad looked like a shadow of himself.........major weight loss, gaunt face, ruddy complexion.

IMO, neither parent looked like heavy drug users in their pictures.They did look like they were mentally exhausted,and tired though.

 

[ThaiBali]

IMO, neither parent looked like heavy drug users in their pictures.They did look like they were mentally exhausted,and tired though.

Mug shots aren't meant to look like 'studio shots' they program the camera to not use a filter. I agree they didn't look they were drugged. If you see the the one of them arriving at the police station they look normal.

Do we know for certain they were addicted to hard drugs. As for Rx medication with 2 children could be many types of medication also prescribed medication for the parents.

As for a chest infection for A it can be difficult to diagnose most parents think they are coming down with a flu, that's not neglect. The weather there doesn't help.

 

[TieDyeJedi]

They might be legitimate prescriptions or might not. Prescription drug abuse can run rampant in low income/rural areas because it's more accessible and affordable. I had a relative (one in every family) try to buy my Vicodin leftovers after I had dental surgery years ago for $1/pill. She and her friends would do this, then crush it up and snort it. (Obviously I said no.) Aside from that, people can just steal Rx from elderly family members and such.

Long before heroin made its way into my hometown, addicts were going after pills.

 

[ANonyMs]

On this note, thinking of the medical examiner and staff who had to perform an autopsy on a previously healthy 5 year old child. I think the ME is often overlooked in homicide cases, but really, the case BEGINS (or ends!) with his/her work. No room for sloppiness or error, and when the decedent is a child who did not die of natural causes, I imagine that it's difficult not to let emotions run wild.

OT but wanted to address this. I can imagine that is hard for many people, but I also think that they become good at compartmentalizing. Different people's brains see situations through different lenses. I think many people who are very science and logic minded are better able to see the job in front of them as a process to be gotten through. I think there are others who see this it as their contribution to finding justice for victims.

Not saying it wouldn't be a challenge (they are human, after all), but I am not sure how emotional they allow themselves to be about it. Allowing emotions to interfere could jeopardize their objectivity.

I think they are a hugely under appreciated player in solving crimes. People want CSI style results and blame the techs and the Dr's in the lab for the lack thereof rather than blaming Hollywood for over inflating our expectations.

 

[ANonyMs]

They might be legitimate prescriptions or might not. Prescription drug abuse can run rampant in low income/rural areas because it's more accessible and affordable. I had a relative (one in every family) try to buy my Vicodin leftovers after I had dental surgery years ago for $1/pill. She and her friends would do this, then crush it up and snort it. (Obviously I said no.) Aside from that, people can just steal Rx from elderly family members and such.

Long before heroin made its way into my hometown, addicts were going after pills.

So very true. There is new evidence within the last year showing that *many* users begin with legitimately RX'd pain pills and quickly become addicted. Improper use of Rx meds and the sales of left over pills, as well as coaching people how to get scripts, is a HUGE problem and is now being viewed as the gate way to heroin.

 

[ANonyMs]

I guess the video of them at the store has not been released, has it? I'd be super curious to know just exactly what purchases were made at the store..........cleaning supplies? (bleach).....items that they thought might help them conceal his death?........rubber gloves?........

I don't know that we will hear that evidence until trial.

 

[AnnaGrace]

I just take it as "Lawyer Speak" .

In all fairness, I can agree with that. Adding that it's a very poor choice of words for the lawyer. It can hardly be described as an issue. JMO

 

[TieDyeJedi]

Yep. And poses a huge problem for people with legitimate pain issues. I recently had a D&C and felt like a junkie asking for percocet to deal with pain after the procedure. My husband's had a ton of dental work this year and been prescribed so much vicodin that I'm positive our pharmacy thinks we're addicts every time we pick it up.

If they're on Medicaid, gaming the system to get Rx is free. IF there is an addiction problem in that regard.

 

[vasportsmom]

They might be legitimate prescriptions or might not. Prescription drug abuse can run rampant in low income/rural areas because it's more accessible and affordable. I had a relative (one in every family) try to buy my Vicodin leftovers after I had dental surgery years ago for $1/pill. She and her friends would do this, then crush it up and snort it. (Obviously I said no.) Aside from that, people can just steal Rx from elderly family members and such.

Long before heroin made its way into my hometown, addicts were going after pills.

I can't speak for Pulaski specifically (Tamora would know more) but abuse of prescription drugs is running rampant in Southwest VA. Local LE has stated over and over that it is their fast growing problem. Many local physicians will no longer prescribe narcotics but pain clinics are popping up everywhere and people will drive hours to get to them after being kicked out of their local clinics.


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[ANonyMs]

I guess the video of them at the store has not been released, has it? I'd be super curious to know just exactly what purchases were made at the store..........cleaning supplies? (bleach).....items that they thought might help them conceal his death?........rubber gloves?........

I don't know that we will hear that evidence until trial.

 

[Zuri]

IMO, neither parent looked like heavy drug users in their pictures.They did look like they were mentally exhausted,and tired though.

I have to respectfully disagree in part. Having seen so many patients in the ER with similar facial appearances, IMO, if I were assessing them, I would be drug screening for opiates, methamphetamines, and benzos, primarily looking for heroin. IMO

 

[Zuri]

Well, I am older than this couple, they are my kids age.. so I am speaking of their parents generation. There is a lot that goes into why people do what they do.

And on the parenting classes... that makes me laugh out loud. I know people who read all these books and then when the baby gets here .. that wasn't in the book! Some things are common sense, trial and error and so forth. What works for one child doesn't for another. I understand what your saying, in theory, but in Reality, that's different story.

I think my mother followed Dr. Spock's advice back in the late 50's and early 60's. OMG. We would never do the things he recommended today, would we?