GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #6

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  • #321
Whoa whoa whoa. Let me explain here. I think they are only "allowed" to deny bail because she is a flight risk. I do not know that the other charges are enough for them to keep her. Similar to when someone is held for questioning and they arrest them on a less severe charge to buy time for bigger charges to come.

Do ya dig?

Dig.

(Sorry I have been MIA. And yes...this is what I think, too. They can't "legitimately" say, "No bail because we plan on charging you sometime in the next few weeks or even months when the final autopsy comes back hopefully supporting our theories. But we CAN say that due to X, Y, Z related to the CURRENT charges and/or we deem you flight risk, so...no bail for you.")

I don't actually know what the burden of proof is to deem someone a "flight risk".
 
  • #322
Flight risk, IMHO, is completely subjective, just as "suicide risk" is also objective and allows LE to take steps in the jail that they normally wouldn't do -

I think they're keeping them in jail because they feel like doing it, and they don't want the burden of protecting them out of the jail system. No more, no less. They just kind of feel like keeping them there.

My guess is, they are not prepared to deal with nuisance crowd protests like in the case of Casey Anthony, or Kyron Horman, and it's just easier to nip that in the bud.
 
  • #323
This is my first post. I've been following for several days now, trying to catch up on all six threads. I finally reached the end!!!

I have lots that I feel I need to add but it's going to have to be in pieces as I just don't have the time to get it all out at once.

I have a relative that was very close to the entire family and we have discussed this situation as nauseum. I feel I can offer some insight based on this second-hand information.

Also, just to quickly add, I grew up knowing AW's sister and used to be friends with her. (Distance and busy lives are to blame, nothing more). While it's been a long time since I've spoken with her, I used to speak with her almost daily after she had given birth to her 2nd (I think) child. Everything that I know of her would lead me to believe that, if Baby A is with her, and I think that to be the case, then that baby is being greatly loved and cared for. She and her husband are very kind, responsible, loving parents.

Secondly, it is my understand that P & A are NOT drug addicts. While there may have been some substance issues in the family, those two did not give people close to them a reason to believe that there was anything more than occasional marijuana use by P. A did have a valid, legal prescription, which I believe is what LE found. It's worthwhile to take note that NO drug possession charges were filed against them, despite it being reported that prescription medications and a small amount of marijuana were found in the home.

Finally, for now, some info on the septic tank. It was uncovered and accessible. It was considered a danger area. Noah was aware of the location of the septic tank and it was an off limits area. It is known that he knew because he would talk about it. I don't know when it became accessible (if work was done or other changes) but I know that my relative heard him talk about it directly. Noah was also liked the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I don't know if this is related, but the little boy was curious about the tank yet knew to stay away from it.

Also, it is my understanding that the septic tank was looked in BEFORE LE was ever called. In other words, the two interviewed by Orly Salinas were most likely NOT the first people to search for Noah inside that tank. If true, that would render all reports of bolts, lid on or off, etc., completely irrelevant.

Almost no information has been reports on what the parents did or didn't do. All we know for sure was that they left the kids at home during the trip to work and that a stop was made at a convenience store. Ironically, I haven't seen a single person suggest that it could have been medicine for the baby that they were stopping to get. I don't know what they bought. But when I first read that update, and that baby A was sick, that was my first thought.

It is also my understanding that the parents were actually very selective about who their children spent time with. While it is obvious that they excercised horribly poor judgement in leaving two young children unattended, it is my belief, based upon the personal information shared with me, that it was likely that they THOUGHT the children would be better left sleeping than to be woken and taken on the morning work trip. While I do not know if Noah was also suffering from the same cold, it seems reasonable to me that he was either coming down with, actively, or getting over the same cold or flu as the baby had. It also seems reasonable to think A may have also been under the weather, which could very well explain a 3 hour nap in the morning, if in fact that nap did occur!!!!

While I cannot claim to know what happened, I can say that there are people within circle of family / friends that are responsible, reasonable, sensible, and clear headed that can not imagine any situation where these parents either harmed their children or played any role of placing Noah in that tank.

Yes, I am aware of the charges and have read the code over and over and have read all sorts of other people's interpretations and ideas of the code. I know that these parents were absolutely neglectful in leaving their children at home, unattended and that they are being charged with felonies because of it. I also know that people can be deceiving and can surprise even their closest friends and family members. I realize that it is possible that what went on in their home could be very different than what they portrayed. However, that being said, I am close with my relative also and as such, I feel that this was a horrible, tragic accident. I do not believe that Noah's parents had any knowledge of him being in that tank beyond it being a place worth searching since they couldn't find their child and it was seemingly a known hazard.

Noah was a happy child and he did have a happy life. There were no outward signs of abuse or neglect to people close to him that loved him immensely. I realize that the charges brought against his parents paint a different picture. They left their kids home alone - which certainly qualifies as wreck less and neglectful. Noah lost his life, so that obviously qualifies and severe injury. But those charges don't mean that their parents didn't love them or many of the other terrible assumptions I've read on various mediums over the past month. I have never met them so I can't form any of my own opinions. I just hope that I've been able to offer some insight or answer some questions that some have had.

Any way you look at it, this is a heartbreakingly tragic situation. No matter what happened that day, it's horrible. We all hope that little boy didn't suffer. There really isn't anything we can do besides hold our children tight, love, cherish, protect, and appreciate them. Tragedy can strike in any instant and doesn't discriminate.
 
  • #324
:wagon: SweetnessFollows
 
  • #325
Welcome Sweetness Follows. :welcome:


I appreciate your info about the family and I hope it is true that he was always loved and nurtured and well taken care of. But it is just really hard for me to accept that fully, while knowing the two very young kids were left home all alone for a very long time. I don't care how tired or sick the babies were, leaving them all alone for hours is just unacceptable. They could have slept in their car seats. She could have run into the store before dropping off her husband and let the kids stay in the car sleeping. I just do not see that loving, caring, nurturing parents could pull out of the driveway and leave an infant home alone with a 5 yr old. :no:
 
  • #326
Welcome SweetnessFollows!
 
  • #327
What I'd like to know is..................hasn't it been reported in the timeline that AW allegedly woke up from her 3 hour nap @ 10:30am and couldn't find Noah in the house and at 11:00am 911 had been called and LE had arrived at her home. Given that Noah was a well-loved, popular little boy who many have posted elsewhere, played at their homes with their children, did AW even bother to start calling around by phone to check and see if he was perhaps at someone's house playing with other kids?

How far from their trailer were other homes? Did anyone hear her calling for Noah? Did she holler for him?

Guess what I'm getting at is..........it just always struck me as somewhat odd that such a very short period of time elapsed between when she alleged she woke up and found he was not in the house, and the time the cops arrived. Most people, IMO, if they woke to find their child not in the house, would be calling for him, frantically phoning neighbors to ask if they'd seen the child, or going to knock on the doors of neighbors, etc.............she just seemed to be pretty quick to call police. That always lead me to believe she didn't call/shout for him/check with neighbors/go outside and look for him because she already 'knew' where he was.
 
  • #328
This is my first post. I've been following for several days now, trying to catch up on all six threads. I finally reached the end!!!

I have lots that I feel I need to add but it's going to have to be in pieces as I just don't have the time to get it all out at once.



Finally, for now, some info on the septic tank. It was uncovered and accessible. It was considered a danger area.

**EDIT**

I meant to say **UNBOLTED**, NOT uncovered. By that, I was referring to the sod. The lid was neither bolted nor covered with sod.

I realized how poorly I had written that after submitting and I can't find an edit feature!

Please excuse me for any confusion I may have created!!!
 
  • #329
Welcome SweetnessFollows.

Thank you for the inside information. It supports my intuition about what happened on that horrible day.
 
  • #330
SStarr - what is your intuition telling you?..............

Welcome SweetnessFollows.

Thank you for the inside information. It supports my intuition about what happened on that horrible day.
 
  • #331
  • #332
SStarr - what is your intuition telling you?..............

That it happened just like Sweetness said and the other stuff was pure rumors.

I'm not saying that they are not horrible parents for leaving their kids alone. It's inexcusable because this is precisely why you don't freaking leave your kids alone.

I read an interesting article last night about what is called RIP trolling or grief tourism. It is something that is happening in another case that I follow. It's not exactly like this case, but it is similar. Anyways, there are people who go on news sites and FB who post lies about people involved in cases to get their jollies. I'm not saying that this happened here on WS as Tricia runs a tight ship, but my intuition was that it was happening in this case. Here is the article:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ng-20130812_1_trolling-rip-tinley-park-family

If testing comes back that supports the heroin or meth story, I'm happy to change my position, but I'm just not seeing it yet.
 
  • #333
I just don't understand then, if the tank was accessible, why it took so SO long to find him. An absolutely thorough search of the places closest to home that Noah could be paramount and essential.
 
  • #334
If LE just took their word that a known accessible danger are had "already been searched" and were just like, "cool, thanks, man! One less thing for us to do!" then they are the most incompetent LE ever.

When was the sod removed and why? It was covered in sod late last year. Did they have to do maintenance on the septic tank and maybe tried to do the work themselves?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #335
I just don't understand then, if the tank was accessible, why it took so SO long to find him. An absolutely thorough search of the places closest to home that Noah could be paramount and essential.

That's just one of those sad mysteries that often accompany cases like this. SO often, an area is searched and searched, and the remains are right there, missed. I still am baffled that Chandra Levy's remains were right there in the wooded area off the jogging trail, that was grid searched to a square foot grid, and were missed.

I think this will haunt the searchers - that he was right there the whole time and initial first responders reportedly did see something in the tank, and their reports were ignored. The bigger picture is that it wouldn't have saved him - he was surely not still alive when they had the opportunity to find him in there.
 
  • #336
If LE just took their word that a known accessible danger are had "already been searched" and were just like, "cool, thanks, man! One less thing for us to do!" then they are the most incompetent LE ever.

When was the sod removed and why? It was covered in sod late last year. Did they have to do maintenance on the septic tank and maybe tried to do the work themselves?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I recall reading or seeing in the LE press releases that LE HAD, in fact "checked" the septic tank early on in the initial search. While very little information has been released by LE, if the tank WAS, in fact, covered by sod, I can't imagine that it wouldn't have been announced early on.

I have seen this question asked several times and I am asking the same: how could they have NOT thoroughly searched there in the beginning, especially considering that they even announced that the search was operating under both assumptions of accidental and criminal?
I have a feeling that this very question will become a crucial part of the trial.
 
  • #337
That it happened just like Sweetness said and the other stuff was pure rumors.

I'm not saying that they are not horrible parents for leaving their kids alone. It's inexcusable because this is precisely why you don't freaking leave your kids alone.

I read an interesting article last night about what is called RIP trolling or grief tourism. It is something that is happening in another case that I follow. It's not exactly like this case, but it is similar. Anyways, there are people who go on news sites and FB who post lies about people involved in cases to get their jollies. I'm not saying that this happened here on WS as Tricia runs a tight ship, but my intuition was that it was happening in this case. Here is the article:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ng-20130812_1_trolling-rip-tinley-park-family

If testing comes back that supports the heroin or meth story, I'm happy to change my position, but I'm just not seeing it yet.

Interesting. What I've also seen, and I think we've all seen, is what I'd call "rage trolling". I keep seeing it more and more - as an internet society, we've kind of become a rage flash mop for news stories. (I hate using the term flash mob, because flash mobs are usually fabulous and entertaining, and generous spirited). But anyway - the public seems to gravitate to vilify people in cases where the victim of their rage isn't clearly guilty, and is behaving meekly and the crime they're thought to have committed isn't the worst we've seen. In cases of hideous torture and grisly murder, people tend to be interested in it, but from a distance. They don't march up to someone's lawn, call them on the phone, shake fists at them as they enter the courtroom, etc. There's a grisly interest, but it's quiet and from a distance and people tend to apologize for their interest in the case.

In cases like this, where it's not clear at ALL what happened to that child, I'm seeing venting of the most vicious rage against this couple under news articles. Some posts say prayers for this sweet soul, but MANY want the death penalty, want the mom tossed in the septic tank, and they write in all caps and they're in such a rage you can tell their blood pressure is sky high when they write this stuff.

Where does this come from? This need to vent rage at strangers, very publicly, who aren't clearly guilty of anything at all and are experiencing an absolute personal hell in the loss of their family member? It's like when road rage first became an issue. Then rage on a plane. Why do we have such hair trigger rage?
 
  • #338
I recall reading or seeing in the LE press releases that LE HAD, in fact "checked" the septic tank early on in the initial search. While very little information has been released by LE, if the tank WAS, in fact, covered by sod, I can't imagine that it wouldn't have been announced early on.

I have seen this question asked several times and I am asking the same: how could they have NOT thoroughly searched there in the beginning, especially considering that they even announced that the search was operating under both assumptions of accidental and criminal?
I have a feeling that this very question will become a crucial part of the trial.

And, Welcome, Sweetness! I was on my phone and this got cut off somehow.
 
  • #339
Well, the public aren't the ones who have charged the parents with their felony abuse and neglect charges, and we the public are not the ones who have denied bail. Soooo this leads me to believe that if this were merely a tragic accident, the charges and the bail would be different. Not for one second do I think A is a flight risk. Where would she go and by what means? The Judge thought it too risky for her to be around an 11 year old who she would not be in charge of. All we know right now is very telling. IMO
 
  • #340
Interesting. What I've also seen, and I think we've all seen, is what I'd call "rage trolling". I keep seeing it more and more - as an internet society, we've kind of become a rage flash mop for news stories. (I hate using the term flash mob, because flash mobs are usually fabulous and entertaining, and generous spirited). But anyway - the public seems to gravitate to vilify people in cases where the victim of their rage isn't clearly guilty, and is behaving meekly and the crime they're thought to have committed isn't the worst we've seen. In cases of hideous torture and grisly murder, people tend to be interested in it, but from a distance. They don't march up to someone's lawn, call them on the phone, shake fists at them as they enter the courtroom, etc. There's a grisly interest, but it's quiet and from a distance and people tend to apologize for their interest in the case.

In cases like this, where it's not clear at ALL what happened to that child, I'm seeing venting of the most vicious rage against this couple under news articles. Some posts say prayers for this sweet soul, but MANY want the death penalty, want the mom tossed in the septic tank, and they write in all caps and they're in such a rage you can tell their blood pressure is sky high when they write this stuff.

Where does this come from? This need to vent rage at strangers, very publicly, who aren't clearly guilty of anything at all and are experiencing an absolute personal hell in the loss of their family member? It's like when road rage first became an issue. Then rage on a plane. Why do we have such hair trigger rage?

I share your thoughts, JennaT.

What I truly can't wrap my head around is how easily it seems that the first assumptions are the worst. As a mother, I can't put the pieces together in any arrangement to create a potential situation where it is *more* likely that a parent put their child in a septic tank, for any reason. I naturally assume that it's much more likely to be a tragic accident or even an outsider (I realize there is not currently and released evidence to suggest that anyone else was involved). I haven't even seen any rumors suggesting that the parents were mentally ill (but I've seen some much less logical, far reaching rumors!), so without that being a potential factor, I guess I'm just in the minority that believe that a mentally stable mom wouldn't put her child in a septic tank.
 
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