VA VA - The Colonial Parkway Murders, 1986-89

[Kell1]

Police Impersonation:

In general people who impersonate law enforcement officials fall into 1 of 2 categories though like any behavior its best to be viewed as a continuum since aspects of each can bleed over into each other .

People who want to be Cops, and people who want to appear to be cops

1) Police (or Military)wannabes -Individuals, fascinated with the Military (primarily specialized units such as SEALs , Special Forces, Ranger etc..) or Law Enforcement , they may , and often do wind up in other emergency personnel positions such as EMS, or Fire, in some cases, corrections. They may work in security, work as a bouncer at a bar, Bail bond recovery, some may apply to be Protection agents (Bodyguards) , even retail theft detectives.

Some may actually make it into law enforcement barring any background issues that denies them entry , where a whole host of issues can evolve. However prior to that they're known to apply to many different, agencies, they will often read about crime , pursue a criminal justice degree , will usually choose to be around police and police activities. They will participate in police like activities, such as town watch

They will often dress in a police like manner (Danner, or HiTec boots etc) utilize police jargon, they may drive a police style vehicle, often outfitted with lights, particularly if they are in EMS or fire, they will often obtain a license to carry firearms if they are permitted, They will usually own several usually police or military style weapons (AR15 , Remington or Mossberg shotgun, 9mm sidearm etc..) if they own a dog it will be a police type (Belgian Malinois etc..) They will often listen to police scanners , may actually show up at crime scenes.

Their TV and movie preferences will reflect this as well .

Abuses and exaggerations of their authority, due to their position with their agency aren't uncommon either.

I once witnessed a heated exchange at the door of a courthouse between Sheriffs deputies, and a Bail Bond agent who had an issue with checking in his weapon at the door. For the record even police must check their weapon upon entering a courthouse, depending on holster type . This individual grossly overestimated his position.


2) M.O. Type: This type uses the police persona simply as a means to commit a crime, they may be enthusiasts, that have discovered the power they have to commit further crimes utilizing the impersonation to commit some type of crime. They can range from Harassment, to robbery, to assault to rape, torture and murder.

These types may start out as Police enthsiasts, but somewhere along the line they discovered that wielding a badge gave them an avenue to commit any variety of crimes .

Its also important to note that that as pathetic as these individuals may seem its not an uncommon trait among Sadistic psychopaths to emulate positions of power, Ted Bundy, William Suff both impersonated police to acquire victims .

On July 13, 1985 16 year old Bridget Drobney traveling alone pulled over onto a gravel road , when a car with a flashing red light pulled her over , a man approached the car and asked for her license, and then her registration, 2 other men then approached from the car stopped behind her , and forced the teen into a station wagon , she was taken to a cornfield where she was raped by 2 of the men, then stabbed repeatedly to death . One of the men was sentenced to death (now in Moratorium) one to life , and the third stuck a plea deal and served 2-3 years before being released.

Drobney's family later filed and successfully sued the company that makes and sells the lights used .

Tragedy again:

In 2003 , Jason Peder Clausen was readying to head off to basic training with the army, a police and military buff, he seemed almost too eager to serve his country in the early part of 2003.

Despite his methamphetamine use, which his friends described as "recreational" they joked about his enthusiasm to get through Army training because he would often claim he "was ready to kill"

A police fan Jason was known to emulate police officers

The laughter and ambiguity soon stopped one evening when Claussen asked his roommate Eric Jensen , to come look at something in the rear of his Ford Expedition, at first he wasnt sure , but he suddenly felt a chill when he recognized he was stating at the body of a young female.

Horrified he returned to his apartment, while Clausen disappeared .

With Jensens help they were able to find womens items in Claussens possession belonging to a missing University of Northern Colorado student Lacy Miller.

Upon serving a warrant they discovered a camera in Clausen's room and developing the film they discovered pictures of Miller laying face down on his bed.

Her body was later discovered burried in a shallow grave in a canyon , and the full extent of the horrors of what was done to the victim was finally revealed.

The 20 year old was abducted, savagely beaten , raped and tortured, by burning, she suffered 2nd and 3rd degree burns , before being beaten to death by the Clausen

In the AM hours of January 18, 2003 Claussen pulled over the UNC student he was able to abduct her , where he took her to his house where she was killed

Please consider the following when pulled over by a vehicle you believe may be a police impersonator.

• Could you have done something that warranted being pulled over? Speeding, running a red light, U-turn, weaving, etc.
• If something doesn’t feel right, call 9-1-1 as soon as it is safe to do so. Lock your vehicle and leave the window rolled up. Tell the person approaching you have called 9-1-1 to verify the officer’s agency. The dispatcher can verify that you are with a real police officer and let the officer know they are on the phone with you.
• If you can pick a well-lit public area to pull over, you should do so.
• If you are in a remote area, slow down and call 9-1-1. The 9-1-1 center will be aware an officer is trying to stop you. Keep moving until you can confirm the agency and the officer is identified. Turn on your emergency flashers and be clear you are not trying to flee the area.
• Know your location. When you call 9-1-1, provide dispatchers with a description of your location to include city, street name and a landmark or store nearby. This will allow dispatchers to locate you quickly.

 

[billthom56]

Kell1:

Excellent point. I think robbery was a motive in Colonial Parkway Murders #4, Phelps/Lauer. Daniel Lauer's wallet with $6-800 in cash from house painting jobs went missing and was never found. Some of their friends, including at least two with very sketchy backgrounds knew that Daniel was collecting that money Labor Day weekend.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

 

[billthom56]

Kell1:

Excellent point. I think robbery was a motive in Colonial Parkway Murders #4, Phelps/Lauer. Daniel Lauer's wallet with $6-800 in cash from house painting jobs went missing and was never found. Some of their friends, including at least two with very sketchy backgrounds knew that Daniel was collecting that money Labor Day weekend.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

Police Impersonation:

In general people who impersonate law enforcement officials fall into 1 of 2 categories though like any behavior its best to be viewed as a continuum since aspects of each can bleed over into each other .

People who want to be Cops, and people who want to appear to be cops

1) Police (or Military)wannabes -Individuals, fascinated with the Military (primarily specialized units such as SEALs , Special Forces, Ranger etc..) or Law Enforcement , they may , and often do wind up in other emergency personnel positions such as EMS, or Fire, in some cases, corrections. They may work in security, work as a bouncer at a bar, Bail bond recovery, some may apply to be Protection agents (Bodyguards) , even retail theft detectives.

Some may actually make it into law enforcement barring any background issues that denies them entry , where a whole host of issues can evolve. However prior to that they're known to apply to many different, agencies, they will often read about crime , pursue a criminal justice degree , will usually choose to be around police and police activities. They will participate in police like activities, such as town watch

They will often dress in a police like manner (Danner, or HiTec boots etc) utilize police jargon, they may drive a police style vehicle, often outfitted with lights, particularly if they are in EMS or fire, they will often obtain a license to carry firearms if they are permitted, They will usually own several usually police or military style weapons (AR15 , Remington or Mossberg shotgun, 9mm sidearm etc..) if they own a dog it will be a police type (Belgian Malinois etc..) They will often listen to police scanners , may actually show up at crime scenes.

Their TV and movie preferences will reflect this as well .

Abuses and exaggerations of their authority, due to their position with their agency aren't uncommon either.

I once witnessed a heated exchange at the door of a courthouse between Sheriffs deputies, and a Bail Bond agent who had an issue with checking in his weapon at the door. For the record even police must check their weapon upon entering a courthouse, depending on holster type . This individual grossly overestimated his position.


2) M.O. Type: This type uses the police persona simply as a means to commit a crime, they may be enthusiasts, that have discovered the power they have to commit further crimes utilizing the impersonation to commit some type of crime. They can range from Harassment, to robbery, to assault to rape, torture and murder.

These types may start out as Police enthsiasts, but somewhere along the line they discovered that wielding a badge gave them an avenue to commit any variety of crimes .

Its also important to note that that as pathetic as these individuals may seem its not an uncommon trait among Sadistic psychopaths to emulate positions of power, Ted Bundy, William Suff both impersonated police to acquire victims .

On July 13, 1985 16 year old Bridget Drobney traveling alone pulled over onto a gravel road , when a car with a flashing red light pulled her over , a man approached the car and asked for her license, and then her registration, 2 other men then approached from the car stopped behind her , and forced the teen into a station wagon , she was taken to a cornfield where she was raped by 2 of the men, then stabbed repeatedly to death . One of the men was sentenced to death (now in Moratorium) one to life , and the third stuck a plea deal and served 2-3 years before being released.

Drobney's family later filed and successfully sued the company that makes and sells the lights used .

Tragedy again:

In 2003 , Jason Peder Clausen was readying to head off to basic training with the army, a police and military buff, he seemed almost too eager to serve his country in the early part of 2003.

Despite his methamphetamine use, which his friends described as "recreational" they joked about his enthusiasm to get through Army training because he would often claim he "was ready to kill"

A police fan Jason was known to emulate police officers

The laughter and ambiguity soon stopped one evening when Claussen asked his roommate Eric Jensen , to come look at something in the rear of his Ford Expedition, at first he wasnt sure , but he suddenly felt a chill when he recognized he was stating at the body of a young female.

Horrified he returned to his apartment, while Clausen disappeared .

With Jensens help they were able to find womens items in Claussens possession belonging to a missing University of Northern Colorado student Lacy Miller.

Upon serving a warrant they discovered a camera in Clausen's room and developing the film they discovered pictures of Miller laying face down on his bed.

Her body was later discovered burried in a shallow grave in a canyon , and the full extent of the horrors of what was done to the victim was finally revealed.

The 20 year old was abducted, savagely beaten , raped and tortured, by burning, she suffered 2nd and 3rd degree burns , before being beaten to death by the Clausen

In the AM hours of January 18, 2003 Claussen pulled over the UNC student he was able to abduct her , where he took her to his house where she was killed

Please consider the following when pulled over by a vehicle you believe may be a police impersonator.

• Could you have done something that warranted being pulled over? Speeding, running a red light, U-turn, weaving, etc.
• If something doesn’t feel right, call 9-1-1 as soon as it is safe to do so. Lock your vehicle and leave the window rolled up. Tell the person approaching you have called 9-1-1 to verify the officer’s agency. The dispatcher can verify that you are with a real police officer and let the officer know they are on the phone with you.
• If you can pick a well-lit public area to pull over, you should do so.
• If you are in a remote area, slow down and call 9-1-1. The 9-1-1 center will be aware an officer is trying to stop you. Keep moving until you can confirm the agency and the officer is identified. Turn on your emergency flashers and be clear you are not trying to flee the area.
• Know your location. When you call 9-1-1, provide dispatchers with a description of your location to include city, street name and a landmark or store nearby. This will allow dispatchers to locate you quickly.

 

[billthom56]

Kell1:

Excellent information. A law enforcement officer or an imposter may be in the mix in the Colonial Parkway Murders. It has been part of the FBI profile of the case since our sister Cathy and Beclky's Dowski's murder in October 1986, a year before the other murders.

And of course, we also have Liberty Security (later called Advance Security), who have direct ties to murdered employees Brain Pettinger and Laurie Ann Powell in 1988, as well as less direct connections to Colonial Parkway Murders victims Keith Call and Cassandra Hailey in 1988 as well as Robin Edwards and David Knobling in 1987. That is a lot of potential linkage; 4 separate incidents, 6 murders over a 3 year period. I am not aware of any links between Liberty/Advance Security and Cathy Thomas/Rebecca Dowski (1986) or Annamaria Phelps/Daniel Lauer (1989).

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

 

[Kell1]

Case #2 Knoebling/Edwards:

Just a day ago i saw a video of a 22 year old suspect caught in a motel room in Florida with a 13 year old he met on line, and picked up at school, I thought to myself that wasn't much older than these 2, however that suspect is in jail now

In this day and age, a 20 year old male dating a 14 year old female alone would be front page news in and of itself, I've seen that point made on some pages regarding Knoebling and Edwards, and though I understand looser attitudes toward dating in that era, one cant wonder if that perhaps played into their fate.

Needless to say there was some odd behavior in the weeks up to the hours leading to their deaths

Again with any crime we need to look and not speculate put out of your mind the previous crime forget the "moral enforcer" or "Crooked cop" motive and begin with a clean sheet.

Location:

The ragged island area at that point I've heard was known to be a place teens parked to "hook up" or a lover lane, but also had another reputation, it was supposedly a known drug area as well, where both use and sales were known.

That doesn't mean they were there to do either , perhaps just one, but the latter could possibly be a reason.

What do we REALLY have? you have a car running n the parking lot, 2 bodies found roughly 100 yards from the car, both shot from the rear, David is actually shot twice .

From that we can deduce that there were more than just the 2 victims at that scene that night .

From there the facts get fuzzy ,

I've seen reports that say there was evidence Robin had "sexual contact" but reports that there was no evidence of "sexual assault".

I've also seen differing reports stating that there was no evidence the bodies were ever in the water , and others seem to indicate they were . From the appearance of the bodies in the brief snippets i've seen it seems they were .

Victims: (Victimology)

David Knoebling (20)
David was considered a good kid, into typical teenage boy things, was extremely fond of his truck like most teenage boys and their cars. He in his mothers words was considered a "Child at heart" and enjoyed time with his family particularly with his younger family members,

He had started a new job prior to his death, and in the weeks before his death found out he was about to be a father, his girlfriend at the time Tara Cook, was also younger than him at only 16 years old

For the most part the teens live a low risk lifestyle, on the surface the only thing elevating their risk that night appears they were alone or was it ?

Robin was on a date earlier that night with Davids cousin. Davids younger brother Michael also tagged along with the couple. All 4 went to an Arcade David offered to drive because it was raining, 1-2 hours later they took the cousin and Robin home. Because it was a small pickup Robin rode up front with David, while the other 2 rode in the bed of the pickup in the rain.

Its unclear however if the 2 had ever met prior to this

With a 16 year old pregnant girlfriend, and 14 year old you have just met, you have to consider that David was into younger women as BOTH females were under the age of consent, for a 20 year old male even if his pregnant girlfriend was 16.


Robin Edwards (14)
From what I've read Robin was a bit of a lose cannon, impulsive a "force of nature" a rebellious teen, not fond of rules, she was described as "fearless" and sometimes "reckless" , full of energy, preferred the company of older teens, especially older males.

She had a large circle of friends, was a bit of a rule breaker she was also rumored to be suffering from depression .

Robin had run away from her home twice prior to her murder, and been ordered by a judge to undergo psychiatric evaluation after she supposedly ran away and simply wandered the streets for 12 hours.

In the months prior she was prescribed medication that according to her sister "helped". The night she was killed she actually snuck out of the house after her parents went to work supposedly to meet David.


It appears both victims dressed quickly before they exited the vehicle , why ? or were they possibly re- dressed?

Cook, who lived with her grandparents , stated that her family was angry she that she had become pregnant, the young couple asked to be signed off so they could be married, however she also states that her family liked David , she is interviewed with her grandparents present (due to being a minor) and through a family attorney declines an initial polygraph, however 2 years later at age 18 she agrees to take one and was supposedly cleared.

The family eventually agrees to let the 2 be married, Cook reportedly advised David of that David the day he was murdered though in the documentary Maureen O'Connell (probably a gaffe) states the "day he was found dead" which would be 3 days after the fact.

Cook was grounded that night and wasnt alowed to go out with David , she knew who Robin was as an aquaintance

Cook had been to Ragged island on occasion with David

Scene:

Knoebling's car is found door with the ignition in the access position, the radio and wipers are on clothing and shoes are on the passenger side of the car , Davids wallet in on the dash board

Knoebling's body is found face down on the bank wearing only pants , Edwards is also found face down, however she has on a shirt and pants he has sustained 2 gunshot wounds one to his shoulder

Where the shooting happens is left to speculation, however the most sensible idea is that they were near the waterds edge alive and were shot there.

This brings up the wound to Davids shoulder , theres a few possibilities for this, one is that he saw Robin killed tried to move and was shot through the shoulder before he was shot in the head , though i haven't seen any forensic findings indicating which direction the weapon was fired with regards to the injury to his shoulder, from (back to front, or front to back).

Was this a form of overkill? possibly another possibility is the use of whats sometimes called "Corrective" or "persuasive" force where by injuries are inflicted to force a victim to comply, sometimes its also done to extract information.

Or perhaps its a bit of both, maybe once he was shot, for whatever reason, he would be able to identify who did it so they had to leave no witnesses.

I believe in the documentary Davids father was part of the search party when he was discovered.

If I read correctly, Robins underwear, Davids shirt, and both pairs of shoes they were wearing , are found in the truck.

One thing i notice in pictures however is along with both pairs of shoes there is a third set of footwear in the truck, theres also what appears to be a pair of flip flops in the cab on what appears to be the passenger side of the vehicle, closer to the door , I've seen no other mention of that evidence. I also don't see socks however i remember a time when many wore shoes without them particularly girls.

The truck itself is turned over to Davids father who takes it home , with no reason to suspect foul play the truck wasn't searched or printed at the time I believe , this unfortunately taints evidence .

Most feel its not plausible that they walked down to the area they were found through rocks and rough substrate barefoot , if I read correctly theres also no evidence of any markings on their feet, however that could be also attributed to being in the water.

Its more plausible that they were parked in the more secluded part of the park closer to the water, then the vehicle was moved to the parking lot area. However that is speculative .

What i find interesting if they were in the water is how closely they both came ashore.


Red Flags:

David Knoebling:
With a 16 year old pregnant girlfriend, and 14 year old you have just met, you have to consider that David was into younger women as BOTH females were under the age of consent, for a 20 year old male even if his pregnant girlfriend was 16. He had only known Robin a few hours before they allegedly met up and went somewhere together.

Barring any covert conversations while she was at the arcade, the only time they are together is in the ride to and from the date she was on with his cousin. Im not sure of the duration of each but whatever it was it was enough for either one of them to persuade the other to be in the ragged island area later that night

Remember we dont know how Robin got there, we assume David picked her up but theres a possibility she was taken there by someone else, and met up with him there.

We can surmise David drove there, whether or not he was there alone or with someone else can also be theorized.

Ive heard of love at first sight, but that seems odd to me.

David was to be a father, he had just started a new job, he was advised that day that Cooks grandparents would allow them to get married , within a few hours after that hes murdered, 2 years after the fact his girlfriend is cleared through a polygraph. Her family had contacted an attorney, which is always interesting, which denied the initial polygraph.

Could be something, could be nothing , but its definitely interesting

Robin Edwards:

A victimology assessment includes a profile of the victim(s) of a crime , in this case, you have a 14 year old female who has a history of running away from home, impulsive, and rebellious, to a level above most teens, in the months before she is killed , she was prescribed medication for depression. She constantly breaks rules of the home. Referred to as a "force of nature" by her mother.

My first question is to the reason she was depressed, though not uncommon, and sometimes theres a predisposition for some kids to be so, why was it so bad for her that she launched into these defiant outbursts of behavior?. Females in general tend to be more introverted they turn trauma inward, the gravitate more toward self harming behaviors such as drugs or alcohol.

However Robin was outwardly defiant, she hung with older teens almost certainly to her parents disdain.

Whenever you see an intense type of behavior manifest you need to dig at that a little.

What was the reason she was this way? was there something in her life that happened? sometimes that shifts an investigation in and of itself .

I think I relayed this before on another thread, and this IS BY NO MEANS AN INDICTMENT OF ANYONE INVOLVED IN THE CASE BEING DISCUSSED HERE

I recall a case where a 12 year old girl went missing, she was later found dead. There was literally zero leads, almost no evidence, upon doing a victimology assessment, they discovered the girl had recently started having trouble in school, due to that , she was seeing a therapist, and was recently prescribed anti depressants, and Ritalin I believe.

Upon further investigation they learned she revealed she had a secret, she was being molested for years by her uncle who lived with them, and oddly took a job in another state soon after she was found.

That is why we look into the victims lives.

There's several possibilities to what happened at Ragged Island that night, was it a serial killer ? or killers ? its possible , he could've followed them there, and made his move he could've been watching and waiting, he could be patrolling lovers lane areas.

The MO has as many similarities as it does differences , and the MO in this case, isn't all that uncommon a theme in other crimes .

Could it have been an act of jealousy? also possible and cant be ruled out you have a pregnant 16 year old somewhere that wasnt allowed out that night who apparently lawyered up pretty quickly

Was it a drug deal gone wrong ? (I know the old 80's theme) also possible , the area was known o be a place to go buy drugs, though I hadn't seen anywhere where either was known to use.

Did they see something they weren't supposed to , being there to get together, and happened upon something they weren't supposed to see and were eliminated? ... Again also possible.

My personal feeling in this seems to be more that they were eliminated for some reason, thats why they had to go into the water.

there was no evidence of sexual assault, or was there ? what was the sexual reference the police alluded to at one point

Water usually means wash "wash away evidence" to offenders, they feel theres evidence that could be linked

I (understandably) feel what LE is sitting on is what holds the key to solving this particular case, such as the caliber of weapon , in this case like the other I feel they have probably interviewed the offender at some point but theres a missing link in the chain, preventing them from doing so.

Thats is what leads to those on the outside to wildly speculate what happened

 

[Kell1]

Kell1:

Excellent information. A law enforcement officer or an imposter may be in the mix in the Colonial Parkway Murders. It has been part of the FBI profile of the case since our sister Cathy and Beclky's Dowski's murder in October 1986, a year before the other murders.

And of course, we also have Liberty Security (later called Advance Security), who have direct ties to murdered employees Brain Pettinger and Laurie Ann Powell in 1988, as well as less direct connections to Colonial Parkway Murders victims Keith Call and Cassandra Hailey in 1988 as well as Robin Edwards and David Knobling in 1987. That is a lot of potential linkage; 4 separate incidents, 6 murders over a 3 year period. I am not aware of any links between Liberty/Advance Security and Cathy Thomas/Rebecca Dowski (1986) or Annamaria Phelps/Daniel Lauer (1989).

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

Whenever you see a link that connects people especially those who arent aware of the link, you chase that till its dead.

 

[billthom56]

Check out of first ever bonus episode of the Mind Over Murder true crime podcast, where we answer questions about the unsolved Colonial Parkway Murders and the new “Lovers Lane Murders” TV series now showing on the Oxygen Network.

Bonus episode:

Episode 58: BONUS Colonial Parkway Murders Evidence Listener Q and A by Mind Over Murder • A podcast on Anchor


Bill Thomas, Brother of Cathy Thomas, Colonial Parkway Murders

 

[Betty P]

Check out of first ever bonus episode of the Mind Over Murder true crime podcast, where we answer questions about the unsolved Colonial Parkway Murders and the new “Lovers Lane Murders” TV series now showing on the Oxygen Network.

Bonus episode:

Episode 58: BONUS Colonial Parkway Murders Evidence Listener Q and A by Mind Over Murder • A podcast on Anchor


Bill Thomas, Brother of Cathy Thomas, Colonial Parkway Murders

Great episode and thanks for the wrap up. I've seen all but the second episode of the Lover's Lane Murders series. You answered a few of my questions, especially about the money one of the victims was carrying. I had somehow missed that.

As I watched the LLM series, I often thought how they did a pretty good job of covering a LOT of information about 4 different murders, with 8 victims, multiple crime scenes, etc. There's a lot to cover. The podcasts are very helpful for supplementary information.

This really does sound like FBI and VA state police could be close to solving at least some of these.

Kell1, your tutorials are also great. I've copied a lot of them to my files over the years. I recall one questionnaire you did on victimology that I've used a few times.

Forensics is changing rapidly, so many of these older cold cases are being solved!

 

[Kell1]

Great episode and thanks for the wrap up. I've seen all but the second episode of the Lover's Lane Murders series. You answered a few of my questions, especially about the money one of the victims was carrying. I had somehow missed that.

As I watched the LLM series, I often thought how they did a pretty good job of covering a LOT of information about 4 different murders, with 8 victims, multiple crime scenes, etc. There's a lot to cover. The podcasts are very helpful for supplementary information.

This really does sound like FBI and VA state police could be close to solving at least some of these.

Kell1, your tutorials are also great. I've copied a lot of them to my files over the years. I recall one questionnaire you did on victimology that I've used a few times.

Forensics is changing rapidly, so many of these older cold cases are being solved!

Good there will be a quiz at the end of the chapter ..

 

[Murder Inc]

I always find police impersonator theories assuming. "Looks like a police stop so must be a police... impersonator!" Newton's razor. What's the saying? If it oinks like a duck...

 

[MaryG12]

Florida has its share of police impersonators, recent cases which border on the LOLz

Fake cop pulls over real cop on I-4, gets arrested

Florida man jailed for pretending to be cop to avoid paying bridge toll


And in the city where I live:

2 women arrested for impersonating Sarasota law enforcement, livestreaming fake traffic stop

 

[Kell1]

Thankfully its not that prevalent, it was for a short period in the early 2000's but with increasing penalties its become less over the past decade or so .

We don't like bad guys as it is , we like bad guys who pretend to be one of us even less, and bad guys that are one of us more than anything.

 

[Kell1]

Florida has its share of police impersonators, recent cases which border on the LOLz

Fake cop pulls over real cop on I-4, gets arrested

Florida man jailed for pretending to be cop to avoid paying bridge toll


And in the city where I live:

2 women arrested for impersonating Sarasota law enforcement, livestreaming fake traffic stop

Florida has had its share of EVERYTHING.

 

[Kell1]

I always find police impersonator theories assuming. "Looks like a police stop so must be a police... impersonator!" Newton's razor. What's the saying? If it oinks like a duck...

Newton's flaming laser sword: "If something cannot be settled by experiment or observation, then it is not worthy of debate."

Not sure how that figures into the discussion unless you mean Occams Razor which has little scientific bearing because its been proven to be wrong

 

[Kell1]

Keith Call/Cassandra Hailey


Of all the cases attributed to the Parkway, this one is the most difficult to gauge.

There could be any one of a hundred things that happened to this couple, and with no bodies to confirm evidence, and even with evidence now contaminated by the park service, this case would be extremely difficult to solve even if bodies turned up, barring anything directly linking like DNA or a confession etc.

First off this is a missing persons case, they are missing and presumed dead.

But it needs to be examined like a missing persons case, first, then as a possible homicide.


Like any missing persons case, you look close then work out (same with homicide). You need to dig into their backgrounds and see if there's any avenue in their lives that may have led them to disappear .


Adults disappear on their own pretty often, sometimes they just want a fresh start, sometimes, they are embroiled in a love affair, sometimes they are on the run from something (law, or someone), but they do sometimes, just up and go off the grid.


Unfortunately, you can never rule that out, until it's proven.


In this case, however it seems extremely unlikely.


There isn't much mention of the kids lives prior to their disappearance, no indication of any strife in their lives proio to


The couple attends a party, which I understand was actually their first date, after Call ended a 4 year relationship with another woman . Call was “not having a good time'' according to the witness at the party who actually spoke to Call “that night more than he had ever talked to her” who also happens to be a good friend of his ex girlfriend Celina Brown whom he recently broke up with. One point “Connel makes regarding the interaction at the party was that Call was not interacting with Cassandra at the party, that she was sitting on the couch talking to other guys.


She claimed to call the FBI and they never showed to interview her, which I find odd.


Again there's gaffes in the documentary that i don't know if anyone noticed, in the clip where they are speaking to Call’s brothers his one brother Chris, states that he was driving the parkway with his friend around 2;30-3:00 am that night and saw a car there but “did not recognize it as Richards car or he would’ve stopped” , later when comparing evidence with O’Connell, Combs states her brother “saw his car there at ..”


Jim Clemente points out later that the spot the car isn't that secluded in that spot at all.


Given that could simply mean his brother didn't recognize it as Richards car, but it is still something I noticed.


All of the clothing Call was wearing at the party is discovered in the car, watch and glasses on the dash, his shoes (i'm assuming also the ones he wore that night) are on the drivers side floor, one of her boots is found on the passenger side floor.


Some of her clothes and her underwear are found in the car , Her purse and Calls wallet were missing


O’connell then goes into the issues with the timeline.


Left party approx 1:30 am , a car is seen in that area at 2:30-3:am approx by Calls brother who doesn’t recognize it


Park service taints scene almost immediately, and removes (and for the life of me I can't fathom why) clothing from the car for an undisclosed reason


Dogs hit on a scent trail that leads to the water, however if someone else drove that car or touched their belongings the dogs are simply hitting on anyone who may have been in the car


Is this another in a series?Possibly with little to no evidence, and what we do have is contaminated we have to understand anything is now possible, but is it probable?


That's where you have to kind of operate in cases of the unknown.


My feeling is that whatever happened to the 2 happened elsewhere and the car was simply dumped there at that site for whatever reason, possibly because of the notoriety the first case had.


For 2 kids to go to an area where there were known murders, with the spectre of an unknown killer on the loose is not unheard of actually. Youth endows us with a sense of superiority and invincibility. In every town across america there's the “spooky” places that kids will go just to incite a thrill.


You have kids that were drinking, which we all know lowers inhibitions, in some it shuts off their inhibitors completely, we all know those types.


But from what I've read and seen on the documentary, on their first date Keith wasn't having a good time, possibly a little jealousy that Cassandra was getting from other guys at the party.


Though they didn't interact much from what I understand no one indicated any type of animosity between the 2.


Driving 30 min however to find a place to “make out” however when there are other places along the way at 1:30 in the morning however seems a bit far fetched.


The theory that they were murdered most likely comes from the fact their clothing was found in the car


Sadly, sometimes people are never found, and sometimes it's a case of being hidden in plain sight if you will.


Nature is unforgiving to the human body in the elements, animals, weather, simple erosion, water, can all affect a human body to the point it can be difficult to even determine the gender of the individual.


There are cases of unidentified remains, remaining so for years, because perhaps they thought they looked like the victim, or the approximated age of the victim seemed off, or there were no identifiable traits, such as dental records to attribute to the remains found, therefore they are basically left to obscurity.


For example if you look at the VA medical examiners page there are unidentified remains found in Newport news, as well as across the state. https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/medical-examiner/looking-for-a-missing-person/


Was this a serial murder?...Possibly, we simply don't know, if it is a series barring the second case I feel the Parkway was more of a dump site (I hate to call it that ) In which if its a lone killer the murders are occurring somewhere else and he’s (they) are leaving the vehicles there

 

[billthom56]

Kell1:

Sorry for any confusion. Keith Call's wallet was on the shift console of the Toyota Celica, Cassandra Hailey's purse was on the passenger seat of Keith's car.

We dropped the ball on the wallets/purses thread in the editing process of "Lovers Lane Murders."

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

 

[billthom56]

Kell1:

Oh, and she is not the only potential witness who said that the FBI failed to follow up on interviews.

Thanks.


Bill Thomas

 

[Kell1]

Kell1:

Oh, and she is not the only potential witness who said that the FBI failed to follow up on interviews.

Thanks.


Bill Thomas

Thats even more interesting

 

[LR1]

Thats even more interesting

What about the Phelps/Lauer case, you didn't speak on it.

 

[LR1]

What about the Phelps/Lauer case, you didn't speak on it.

Not that I'm trying to find you something to do.