VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007

[Nova]

I don't know about you, but I've seen, time and again, "good" parents that end up with "bad" kids, and "bad" parents that end up with "good" kids.

Exactly right, IM.

It's not the parents' fault. It's always the mother's.

 

[hallowedbe]

Yesterday, I had to go on the internet to try to find news about Iraq. I couldn't find any. This tragedy has overshadowed the war. Even the Drudge report was missing Iraq news. Now we know that 170 people have been killed during approximately the same time period. Which story should have priority?

I am not being cruel - this VT shooting rampage is terrible. However, I agree with those who say that it is a different world we live in, as Dr. Phil also said yesterday. Things that happen closer to home and touch our lives more, get more press.

33 x 100 = 3300 horrible deaths in Iraq.

 

[angelwngs]

The professor stated tonight that other staff had asked her to do something with him as he was making others in the class uncomfortable by taking pictures ("especially under the desks") of other students w/o their permission. She decided to remove him from the classroom so the others wouldn't have to put up with him. She reported his actions to campus police, and other appropriate depts but nobody could require him to get counseling. His "violent" papers seemed a secondary concern in all this (IMO).

It's a shame that he wasn't removed from school, period, if he didn't go to counseling.

He had to be seeing someone in order to get meds. I haven't heard anything about that yet.

This is when and where 'OUR SYSTEM' FAILS our students, both the sane as well as those in need.

This is the EXACT reason I QUIT teaching TWICE.

When a teacher identifies a student as being a child/individual in need of intense assistance from special education resources, or at the college level, in extreme need of psychiatric assistance, and the teacher's/professor's efforts are met with not only hurdles and brick walls but OFTEN with total rejection, we have essentially FAILED as a teacher. We have failed to HELP the child in NEED as well as to protect the safety and well-being of the other twenty (whatever) children/students/individuals in our classrooms.

Twenty-something other students can not properly LEARN when they are in constant fear, or when the structure and consistancy of their daily classroom enviornment is threatened by an unstable student.

When will President Bush HEAR this point and not only address it, but insist on our Federal Government's Department of Education FIXING the PROBLEM! ? !

Our President of the United States and our First Lady, signing a memorial tribute on VT's Campus the day after mass murders of innocent college students and professors maked me want to be physically SICK!

That is the very LEAST 'action' which he can physically do.

NOW, I BEG our President to PROVE to the citizens of the United States that his intentions are sincere and that he genuinely cares about the safety and well-being of students in the United Sates from Pre-K, to kindergarten and through college!

Mr. President,
PLEASE Do Something to initiate the change of laws which prevent those students so obviously in DESPERATE NEED of Special Education Resources from receiving the HELP that they need! Stop tying teacher's hands behind their backs! Allow teachers to IDENTIFY, document,and refer students who DESPERATELY NEED HELP and then provide the financial resources to the special education departments to fund these programs, so that we, teachers, can HELP KEEP our students safe!

Present Special Education Resources provided by our educational systems are at best a joke. Teachers, identify issues, doucment behavior, refer, and are constantly met with resistance and refusal by the system which is presently in place!

If Proper Laws are put into place and if the MONEY is appropriated to fund the support this psychological special education assistance, the TRAGIC problem of the student NOT RECEIVING THE HELP WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED TO BE IN NEED OF RECEIVING will be substantially alleviated.

Most Sincerely,

A former elementary school teacher who because of the 'system', miserably failed her own students.

 

[IrishMist]

Exactly right, IM.

It's not the parents' fault. It's always the mother's.

Ooh, you've touched on one of my sore spots there, Nova. That attitude fries me. (I'm just pointing out the general opinion, I know YOU don't feel that way.)

 

[SewingDeb]

I heard on Fox News that he did voluntarily go to the local mental health center for therapy.

 

[SewingDeb]

Yesterday, I had to go on the internet to try to find news about Iraq. I couldn't find any. This tragedy has overshadowed the war. Even the Drudge report was missing Iraq news. Now we know that 170 people have been killed during approximately the same time period. Which story should have priority?

I am not being cruel - this VT shooting rampage is terrible. However, I agree with those who say that it is a different world we live in, as Dr. Phil also said yesterday. Things that happen closer to home and touch our lives more, get more press.

33 x 100 = 3300 horrible deaths in Iraq.

The difference is that this happened on a college campus rather than in a war zone. The students and faculty did not realize they were in danger that morning.

 

[Shadow205]

As a memorial to the students, I would create a walk through rock garden, on campus, with 32 sizeable rocks, surrounded by flowers. Each of the 32 rocks would have a 6" X 9" plaque with an individual biography of the student that died.

I am sure that something will be done. You should send your idea to someone Buzzm1, I think it would be a beautiful memorial.

 

[hallowedbe]

The difference is that this happened on a college campus rather than in a war zone. The students and faculty did not realize they were in danger that morning.

Good point.

 

[angelwngs]

The difference is that this happened on a college campus rather than in a war zone. The students and faculty did not realize they were in danger that morning.

If reports are true, I think that they DID INDEED realize that this student was a danger.

The System Failed these students.

Teachers identified the strong potential of his psychological illnesses.

Students felt 'threatened' by him.

The system did not act in the best interest of the entire college student body, to include a failure to act in the best interest of Cho himself.

 

[Buzz Mills]

It wasn't that many years ago that "insane" people were committed, usually by their families, on a fairly regular basis. Then the states began doing away with facilities for the insane, and now most are among us. Fortunately, most of the insane, are relatively harmless.

 

[Nova]

This is when and where 'OUR SYSTEM' FAILS our students, both the sane as well as those in need.

This is the EXACT reason I QUIT teaching TWICE.

When a teacher identifies a student as being a child/individual in need of intense assistance from special education resources, or at the college level, in extreme need of psychiatric assistance, and the teacher's/professor's efforts are met with not only hurdles and brick walls but OFTEN with total rejection, we have essentially FAILED as a teacher. We have failed to HELP the child in NEED as well as to protect the safety and well-being of the other twenty (whatever) children/students/individuals in our classrooms.

Twenty-something other students can not properly LEARN when they are in constant fear, or when the structure and consistancy of their daily classroom environment is threatened by an unstable student.

I have to think about the rest of your excellent and provocative post, angel, but the part I'm quoting is right on!

At the university where I worked, a colleague of mine and her teaching assistant were threatened by a student who said he was going to bring a gun to the next class.

The department responded by posting an armed guard at the department offices, while leaving the professor, her TA and the students (all in another building) unprotected.

(I realize this isn't exactly what you are talking about in terms of failure to deal with problem students, but I think it's typical of administrative cluelessness.)

 

[Nova]

Ooh, you've touched on one of my sore spots there, Nova. That attitude fries me. (I'm just pointing out the general opinion, I know YOU don't feel that way.)

Oh, I feel that way alright. But only with regards to my own family.

 

[nanandjim]

If reports are true, I think that they DID INDEED realize that this student was a danger.

The System Failed these students.

Teachers identified the strong potential of his psychological illnesses.

Students felt 'threatened' by him.

The system did not act in the best interest of the entire college student body, to include a failure to act in the best interest of Cho himself.

What can a school system, system, police or anyone do if a person has not committed any crime? I think that many victims, to include abused women, have found themselves in this situation, where they feel threatened. Yet, the police say that their hands are tied because a crime has not been committed.

I don't have the answers. However, there are many red flags on various situations. Someone should be allowed to step in and do something BEFORE a crime occurs.

Didn't this kid's parents see anything wrong with their son??? Was he a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?

 

[dontpanic38]

Its only been a couple of days. I dont think its exploitation at all. Now Anna Nicole Smith? Thats what im sick of and I was into that saga heavy at first but enough is enough.
As far as this tragedy I for one like the coverage, it shines light on what happened so maybe future tragedies can be prevented.
And for me I want to gain insight as to why it happened, if that can ever be answered.

I agree in that there are lessons to be learned, and it is human nature to be fixated on a story of this magnitude. It is the media that we rely on to bring us information. What I don't agree with at all are the windbags that come out of the woodwork to push some sort of agenda. There are tons of people relying on hindsight to say what could have been done to prevent this, or people like Dr. Phil showing up on all the shows to offer his "Wisdom".
I don't know what Dr. Phil's credentials are, but I can bet that he is hardly qualified regarding something of this magnitude.
As far as people pushing their agendas, I am actually pleasantly surprised that I haven't seen too much politicizing of this yet, but you know it is coming. I don't think that anyone is to blame for this but the shooter. His family has to live with what he did, and I think it is unfair to blame them or even question what they could have done, and I even feel that way for the police and school officials. There are a lot of things that could have been done, but no one saw something like this coming.
I think that the key is that people want someone or something to blame, only the monster who did this can be blamed, and it is frustrating because that just makes us feel more vulnerable.

Anyway, I have been following this story since it broke and I have gotten to the point where I need to back away from it a bit. I have found myself feeling a bit shell shocked, and I think that the majority of people will start doing the same, and I don't think that is disrespectful to the victims or the families.
Just my :twocents:

 

[IrishMist]

Oh, I feel that way alright. But only with regards to my own family.

Tee Hee- I can relate to THAT one! Only in my case- it's BOTH parents! :doh:

 

[ember]

I don't think he should of been allowed to own a gun either he was not a citizen. Possibly laws should be changed. I stated that after Chai Vang went on the war path & shot all the hunters in Wisconsin. They should never have the rights to carry guns in our country.

Me either! My biggest reason is:
You know the terrorists are watching and taking lessons.

What have they learned from this? To recruit people with young children that can move to America with the pretense of "searching for a better life" only to train those young children to hate us. And when they reach the right age, they can all go get their guns by showing their green cards and plan a mass attack on the inside of America. No one will even be the wiser that they have infiltrated us in such a way because it will take years for those children to come of age. But the terrorists will wait.....just as long as they get the chance to kill as many Americans as possible. Can you imagine the carnage? I bet they are taking notes.

That disturbs me greatly. If one lone college kid can plan and execute such a crime....just imagine what would happen on a mass scale.
Scary stuff. We really need to lock up the borders and not let one more person in. We have enough people here as it is, imo.

On another note.....maybe colleges (and other large institutions) should have a program in place that arms two students or employees, which ever the case may be, in each classroom/floor. Give them a permit to carry a concealed weapon after a long and intrusive investigation as to whether or not they are stable and right for such a responsibility. Do intense background checks and then train them extensively. Since there isn't enough funds to have armed guards everywhere we need them....we need to have an alternative such as this. Kind of like a volunteer secret service classroom watch. If just one of those students in one of those classrooms at VT had been allowed to carry a gun, Cho may not have been able to the damage he did.

I know we don’t want it come to this…..but it already has. This is the world we live in. Bad guys are always going to be able to have guns and will do with them what they want. We need to adjust to this in a responsible but effective way. I am sick & tired of seeing slaughter. We have to be able to fight back when something like this happens. They don't follow the rules. We do. We get shot. :banghead:

I don't know the answer....but I do know something different has to be done....what we got is not working, imo

 

[Floh]

Be careful - Imus got fired for that.

Well that's just great! now i have to clean up my keyboard again! :banghead: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Nova]

Tee Hee- I can relate to THAT one! Only in my case- it's BOTH parents! :doh:

Okay, you caught me. My dad's no prize either. He only gets points (relative to my mother), because he was never around.

ETA: but seriously, I agree that children aren't blank slates and they do make choices. Parents have an influence, but they can only do so much.

 

[panthera]

I don't think he should of been allowed to own a gun either he was not a citizen. Possibly laws should be changed. I stated that after Chai Vang went on the war path & shot all the hunters in Wisconsin. They should never have the rights to carry guns in our country.

I completely agree and especially in a state so close to the Nation's capital. I thought they'd be more cautious about who owned firearms and could be a potential terrorist after 9/11.

 

[nanandjim]

I knew a lot of writing kids in college who dropped the f-bomb all the time, esp in poetry. They thought it was cool and hip to be all angry and full of angst. I would agree with Nova, that a lot of younger people write that way ... it makes them "deep."

Or at least that was what a lot of them thought.

I'm wondering if Cho was ever sexually abused as a child? That would explain his rage and the topic of his "plays."