VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007

[Marthatex]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419...t_professor;_ylt=Ank1syaRdeiN_euUFdwF2aPMWM0F

don't know if this has been posted before, but it gives a lot of insight, from the few professors who interacted with him.

He was taking pictures of the girls legs with his cellphone??? They refused to come to class??? And yet HE was allowed to stay, and even the professors were afraid of him?

What about all the other teachers that had him? Did they just put up with him and pass him on? This makes my blood boil.

 

[Marthatex]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Yes, thank you; glad I did something good today.

 

[SieSie]

Silly SieSie! Just ignore everything else and watch Lost! That's all that REALLY matters! Dinner shminner.

LOL!! From one fellow Lost addict to another - :blowkiss:

With regards to the gaming and violent leanings, are we all not guilty of this to a point? We peruse Crime sights etc which some people would find completely ghoulish (my husband included).

Welcome to WS, frangi! I think there's a big difference between adults who are involved in crime sites like this and young children who play games where the object is to kill. I don't want to turn this thread into a video game thread, I think that should maybe have it's own thread someday. Anyway, when I originally brought up gaming, I meant for young children (I even referred to those under 12 playing rated M games). A child's mind is still so impressionable. I'm not saying the games themselves are bad - I'm an adult and I play a lot of video games (some that are violent, too) - but I would never allow children under 17 to play them in my home.

There are so many other video games out there that AREN'T violent (Ratchet and Clank, Jak & Daxter, Sonic the Hedgehod, Mario, etc...) that I just don't understand the reasoning that the parents who allow their YOUNG children to play these ADULT games have. No, video games aren't the CAUSE, but they sure aren't teaching kids to respect life and authority, etc... JMO.

ETA:

As for video games and television being scapegoats; that is ridiculous. All it takes is good parenting to turn off the tv and games, and incourage reading and imaginative play from a young age. I've known alot of different people; some played video games, some not. IMO i think how the children turn out has to do with the parenting than anything else.

The problem is, MeoW - that not all parents are doing the right thing and turning the violent games and movies off. Like I said, I have friends and family who see nothing wrong with letting their 8 - 11 year old kids watch R rated movies and play violent (kill each other) games that are rated M for Mature. I'm not saying to censor the video games - shoot, I'm a game-a-holic - but I just wish that more parents out there would care enough to be the "bad guy" and just say "No, not in MY house". JMO.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Gunman's sister deals with Iraq aid

WASHINGTON - The sister of the gunman responsible for the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history works as a contractor for a State Department office that oversees billions of dollars in American aid for Iraq.

Sun-Kyung Cho is employed by the Iraq Reconstruction Management Office, according to U.S. officials and a State Department staff directory that says she works from an annex near the department's headquarters in Washington. Messages left on her office voicemail, in which she identifies herself as "Sun Cho," were not immediately returned on Wednesday.

The Virginia Tech gunman was her brother, Cho Seung-Hui. Thirty-three people died in the rampage Monday, including the 23-year-old student, who committed suicide.

Spokesman Sean McCormack declined to discuss Sun Cho's status but told reporters "this person is not a direct-hire employee of the State Department." He declined to comment further, citing privacy concerns. Other U.S. officials confirmed she works for a contractor. The office was set up by President Bush to coordinate the reconstruction program in Iraq and offers jobs to "highly skilled and motivated United States citizens" to work at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, according to State Department documents. The office also has several Washington-based positions.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419...an_s_sister;_ylt=Ajfa6OmnqCRhnl9kwUmnafhh24cA

 

[cheko1]

I completely agree and especially in a state so close to the Nation's capital. I thought they'd be more cautious about who owned firearms and could be a potential terrorist after 9/11.

The guy who sold Cho the gun stated he seemed ok / just like any other college student. He sure should feel like a azz especially when he hears the report Cho was classified as being mentally ill.

 

[cheko1]

Me either! My biggest reason is:
You know the terrorists are watching and taking lessons.

What have they learned from this? To recruit people with young children that can move to America with the pretense of "searching for a better life" only to train those young children to hate us. And when they reach the right age, they can all go get their guns by showing their green cards and plan a mass attack on the inside of America. No one will even be the wiser that they have infiltrated us in such a way because it will take years for those children to come of age. But the terrorists will wait.....just as long as they get the chance to kill as many Americans as possible. Can you imagine the carnage? I bet they are taking notes.

That disturbs me greatly. If one lone college kid can plan and execute such a crime....just imagine what would happen on a mass scale.
Scary stuff. We really need to lock up the borders and not let one more person in. We have enough people here as it is, imo.

On another note.....maybe colleges (and other large institutions) should have a program in place that arms two students or employees, which ever the case may be, in each classroom/floor. Give them a permit to carry a concealed weapon after a long and intrusive investigation as to whether or not they are stable and right for such a responsibility. Do intense background checks and then train them extensively. Since there isn't enough funds to have armed guards everywhere we need them....we need to have an alternative such as this. Kind of like a volunteer secret service classroom watch. If just one of those students in one of those classrooms at VT had been allowed to carry a gun, Cho may not have been able to the damage he did.

I know we don’t want it come to this…..but it already has. This is the world we live in. Bad guys are always going to be able to have guns and will do with them what they want. We need to adjust to this in a responsible but effective way. I am sick & tired of seeing slaughter. We have to be able to fight back when something like this happens. They don't follow the rules. We do. We get shot. :banghead:

I don't know the answer....but I do know something different has to be done....what we got is not working, imo

Great post........I agree completely

 

[angelwngs]

The guy who sold Cho the gun stated he seemed ok / just like any other college student. He sure should feel like a azz especially when he hears the report Cho was classified as being mentally ill.

Did you hear that a psychitrist who evaluated Cho said that 'he was depressed but did not seem to pose a threat to himself or others.......', so the judge had no choice but to listen to the psychitrist's evaluation in making a legal decision based on the medical evidence provided to him!

I WOULD LOVE to come face to face with this SHRINK
right now..... :doh: :furious: :banghead:

 

[angelwngs]

Me either! My biggest reason is:
You know the terrorists are watching and taking lessons.

What have they learned from this? To recruit people with young children that can move to America with the pretense of "searching for a better life" only to train those young children to hate us. And when they reach the right age, they can all go get their guns by showing their green cards and plan a mass attack on the inside of America. No one will even be the wiser that they have infiltrated us in such a way because it will take years for those children to come of age. But the terrorists will wait.....just as long as they get the chance to kill as many Americans as possible. Can you imagine the carnage? I bet they are taking notes.

That disturbs me greatly. If one lone college kid can plan and execute such a crime....just imagine what would happen on a mass scale.
Scary stuff. We really need to lock up the borders and not let one more person in. We have enough people here as it is, imo.

On another note.....maybe colleges (and other large institutions) should have a program in place that arms two students or employees, which ever the case may be, in each classroom/floor. Give them a permit to carry a concealed weapon after a long and intrusive investigation as to whether or not they are stable and right for such a responsibility. Do intense background checks and then train them extensively. Since there isn't enough funds to have armed guards everywhere we need them....we need to have an alternative such as this. Kind of like a volunteer secret service classroom watch. If just one of those students in one of those classrooms at VT had been allowed to carry a gun, Cho may not have been able to the damage he did.

I know we don’t want it come to this…..but it already has. This is the world we live in. Bad guys are always going to be able to have guns and will do with them what they want. We need to adjust to this in a responsible but effective way. I am sick & tired of seeing slaughter. We have to be able to fight back when something like this happens. They don't follow the rules. We do. We get shot. :banghead:

I don't know the answer....but I do know something different has to be done....what we got is not working, imo

What about stun guns???

Heck, school systems can't even afford walkie talkies for every teacher....

What am I thinking...??? :doh:

It's not about "SAFETY" it's about "MONEY"!

 

[reb]

hhhmmm.... funny.... we seem to have endless billions to spend on wars in iraq and afghanistan...

 

[reb]

me too. the problem is, nobody wants to be the "uncool" parent or deprive their precious kid of their natural-born right to own all the latest techno-toys and games, like all the other kids have.

it has been proven many times that watching repeated acts of violence makes children ACT OUT in violence. these killing games also greatly improve your hand-eye coordination (although i can think of a lot better ways to accomplish that).

 

[txsvicki]

My neice is a teacher of young children and tried to "identify" issues to parents of certain children she taught. In most cases, if not all, the parents rejected the thought that their child might need something extra. The children went flailing on to the next grade, not doing the best they could because their parents heard "special ed" and freaked out.

I highly doubt you failed any students, angelwngs. :blowkiss: It sounds like you cared very much for them. At some point, all you can do is pray for them and hope they eventually get the help they need. I sure can understand your frustrations though.

I have had just the opposite problem with resistance, lying, skirting issues, etc. in trying to get the school to help my grandson. Took me 3 years to get special ed, and of course they blamed me, his glasses, wanting to act cool, etc. for all his problems even though he wasn't living with me when having learning disabilities from birth. Now I can't find the type counseling or treatment that I feel he needs for some severe problems. I feel that it is almost hopeless, so it's not always the parent who won't get help. Some can't find anyone who will help and if they aren't intelligent enough to question things or able to hire an advocate, then the kids are just SOL. Sounds like Cho had plenty of opportunity for help, had enough money, and had to of done well in school or he wouldn't have gotten as far as he was with education. His problem probably wasn't schools or parent lack of help, he needed psyciatric help, but someone has to alert the medical people, get the person to treatment, and the laws have to be followed as far as rights.

 

[Gina_M]

I'm hearing tonight on MSNBC, that the Court in 2005 declared him incompetent and a "danger to himself and others".

According to the articles I've read, the doctor checked the box for "danger to self" but not for "danger to others":

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3052278&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

On the form, a box is checked, showing that Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness."

Immediately below it was another box that is not checked: "Presents an imminent danger to others as a result of mental illness."

 

[Gina_M]

I've read that his parents were concerned enough to have him admitted to a mental hospital in 2005 because they feared he was suicidal. I know when I was 22-23 years old and a senior in college, my parents only lived an hour away, but they didn't like my boyfriend at the time and I easily made that hour distance seem like a huge thing. We went weeks without speaking. They even came to town to visit me and I avoided them because I was upset with them. Physical distance doesn't mean much. He may have been mad at his parents as well from the 2005 stuff and distanced himself from them.

I don't think his parents were involved in the stuff that happened in 2005:

The evaluation came from a psychiatric hospital near Virginia Tech, where Cho was taken by police in December 2005, after two female schoolmates said they received threatening messages from him, and police and school officials became concerned that he might be suicidal.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3052278&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

It sounds as though this all took place at school. I wonder if his parents even knew about it.

 

[Floh]

It interests me Cho hadn't chosen to be a citizen as my understanding is his sister worked for a government contractor in Washington and i would be surprised to learn someone who wasn't a citizen would be allowed to work in that field. government contractors, i mean.

i'm wondering, also, if his parents were citizens or the whole family remained legal residents.

it does not surprise me Cho wasn't a citizen as he appears to have formed a hatred for America which would probably have reached back at least to 18, the age, i would have thought, he may have been able to get around to applying for citizenship.

i, as some here have also expressed, find it absolutely flabbergasting those who are not citizens are allowed to purchase guns and imagine what terrorists could do with 'sleepers' around the country.

say as few as 10 - 15 of them heading out to a busy mall at a given time on a given day simultainiously in 10 - 15 states each with an automatic weapon in hand trained on a foodcourt is a real possibility which comes to mind. the bloodbath that would cause would make some headlines, wouldn't it?

i think someone, somewhere, has to make it less easy for terrorists to get their hands, legally, on guns. i am fully aware of a black market for illegal guns.

 

[kazzbar]

It interests me Cho hadn't chosen to be a citizen as my understanding is his sister worked for a government contractor in Washington and i would be surprised to learn someone who wasn't a citizen would be allowed to work in that field. government contractors, i mean.

i'm wondering, also, if his parents were citizens or the whole family remained legal residents.

it does not surprise me Cho wasn't a citizen as he appears to have formed a hatred for America which would probably have reached back at least to 18, the age, i would have thought, he may have been able to get around to applying for citizenship.

i, as some here have also expressed, find it absolutely flabbergasting those who are not citizens are allowed to purchase guns and imagine what terrorists could do with 'sleepers' around the country.

say as few as 10 - 15 of them heading out to a busy mall at a given time on a given day simultainiously in 10 - 15 states each with an automatic weapon in hand trained on a foodcourt is a real possibility which comes to mind. the bloodbath that would cause would make some headlines, wouldn't it?

i think someone, somewhere, has to make it less easy for terrorists to get their hands, legally, on guns. i am fully aware of a black market for illegal guns.

Great post, Floh. This scenario is something that concerns me also... It is too easy to get guns and just create carnage... I too find it amazing that this guy was able to just walk in and buy the guns..

 

[LovingTheChaos]

It interests me Cho hadn't chosen to be a citizen as my understanding is his sister worked for a government contractor in Washington and i would be surprised to learn someone who wasn't a citizen would be allowed to work in that field. government contractors, i mean.

i'm wondering, also, if his parents were citizens or the whole family remained legal residents.

it does not surprise me Cho wasn't a citizen as he appears to have formed a hatred for America which would probably have reached back at least to 18, the age, i would have thought, he may have been able to get around to applying for citizenship.

i, as some here have also expressed, find it absolutely flabbergasting those who are not citizens are allowed to purchase guns and imagine what terrorists could do with 'sleepers' around the country.

say as few as 10 - 15 of them heading out to a busy mall at a given time on a given day simultainiously in 10 - 15 states each with an automatic weapon in hand trained on a foodcourt is a real possibility which comes to mind. the bloodbath that would cause would make some headlines, wouldn't it?

i think someone, somewhere, has to make it less easy for terrorists to get their hands, legally, on guns. i am fully aware of a black market for illegal guns.

FLOH - You are absolutely right - it is terrifying to think what a trained gunman could accomplish in a short abount of time. IMO - I don't even have words for how I feel about VA's gun laws.
The black market for guns is there, but you know what? It is still not that easy - you have to know people - you have a risk in getting caught - & the gov. could make the penalties for buying illegal firearms even stiffer than they are already -
Black market guns are no excuse for not having gun laws that MAKE SENSE
Mental health background check for all gun buyers (Like we have in NY), Character references for people who want to own handguns (Like we have in NY), Fingerptinting & a trip to the county sherrif office as part of the process (Yes, we do that here too), in addition to SAFETY TRAINING prior to taking possesion of any firearm (You guessed it, NY does that too). Oh yes, one last thing - you need to be a US Citizen to BUY A GUN.
How can anyone even argue that all of these safegaurds are NOT a good idea?
I never write congress about Anything - but I am going to send my Reps these tips - perhaps the federal government needs to step up, since so many states refuse to acknowledge this issue...

 

[Lesleegp]

I don't think his parents were involved in the stuff that happened in 2005:

The evaluation came from a psychiatric hospital near Virginia Tech, where Cho was taken by police in December 2005, after two female schoolmates said they received threatening messages from him, and police and school officials became concerned that he might be suicidal.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3052278&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

It sounds as though this all took place at school. I wonder if his parents even knew about it.

The article I read yesterday specifically said his parents were involved. I'll never fine it now that all this other stuff has happened, but I will keep looking so I can show what I read.

 

[Taximom]

It may be too easy to acquire guns but if he couldn't get one legally, he might have tried to get one illegally. (Given his poor social skills he probably wouldn't have been able to find someone to get him a gun illegally.)

Failing that, he could have gone on the internet and found out how to make bombs or some other horrible way of getting his maniacal message across.

 

[Taximom]

I have had just the opposite problem with resistance, lying, skirting issues, etc. in trying to get the school to help my grandson. Took me 3 years to get special ed, and of course they blamed me, his glasses, wanting to act cool, etc. for all his problems even though he wasn't living with me when having learning disabilities from birth. Now I can't find the type counseling or treatment that I feel he needs for some severe problems. I feel that it is almost hopeless, so it's not always the parent who won't get help. Some can't find anyone who will help and if they aren't intelligent enough to question things or able to hire an advocate, then the kids are just SOL. Sounds like Cho had plenty of opportunity for help, had enough money, and had to of done well in school or he wouldn't have gotten as far as he was with education. His problem probably wasn't schools or parent lack of help, he needed psyciatric help, but someone has to alert the medical people, get the person to treatment, and the laws have to be followed as far as rights.

Of course it's not always parents. I was letting angelwngs know that I understand her situation with parents in denial. With my youngest I've had to push for services that the school just didn't want to give because for them it all comes down to money. (That's a whole new thread, isn't it?!)

Anyway, I sure hope you can find the help you need for your son. I think raising children is THE toughest job on earth, but it really helps when you have a caring parent like you must be, txsvicki. :blowkiss:

 

[KatK]

It may be too easy to acquire guns but if he couldn't get one legally, he might have tried to get one illegally. (Given his poor social skills he probably wouldn't have been able to find someone to get him a gun illegally.)

Failing that, he could have gone on the internet and found out how to make bombs or some other horrible way of getting his maniacal message across.

Exactly. Someone bent on chaos and destruction will find a way if they are determined enough. Security measures can maybe mitigate some of the damage caused, but it is false thinking to see them as "failsafe measures" or think everything is secure.