VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007

  • #701
I want to know what you guys think of this idea.............

I felt and still feel that immediately after the woman and attendent were shot around 7:15 in the morning, WHY the school waited so long tell the students about the shooting and the fact that both people were dead.

Here's is what I think campus's should do. College, High School, Elemementary schools. WE HAVE to do something!

Have a SIREN or SIREN'S in every school.


If this College had been able to turn on siren's throughout the campus this would mean to the students that something very dangerous was happening........or in this case, had happened. (the murders in the early morning). Stay in you dorm, lock the door to your room, if just coming to campus, leave as fast as possible.

So far, the only thing I've heard was that they thought the killer in the morning had fled! Jeeze, if you had two people murdered on your campus as early as 7:15 in the morning........wouldn't every person here immediately notify everyone else on campus? What were they thinking? :doh: :doh: :doh:

Those poor student's and teachers knew nothing until about 9:45 am, and it was too late!!!

My suggestion is to have siren's installed. All students would be given instruction's on what to do if they heard them. Any better suggestions?

xxxxxxxxooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:
I think you have a very good idea. Something should've been done but I couldn't quite think of what it was! I don't think the e-mail or cell phone notification is adequate enough. There has to be something more far reaching with such a large campus.
 
  • #702
If that were the case, would it have so un-nerved the kid who provided them? He was freaked out enough by Cho that Cho was the first one he thought of when hearing about the shootings...

I don't know. I'm not sure the kid who provided the plays was freaked out by the plays as much as he was by Cho's behavior. I'm sure Cho's refusal to participate in classroom activities made his material seem even weirder; the classroom behavior is what would have concerned me.

I also don't know the Va Tech program. Maybe this material IS considered extreme in Blacksburg (especially in what I still suspect was an introductory class). I taught in Los Angeles, where -- as we all know -- any depravity is acceptable. ;)

(ETA: I think we're all saying the same thing. The same material from an apparently adjusted kid might just seem "experimental." Coming from someone who refused to speak when addressed and who took unauthorized photos of other students in class, of course the playlets seem ominous.)
 
  • #703
I've read that his parents were concerned enough to have him admitted to a mental hospital in 2005 because they feared he was suicidal. I know when I was 22-23 years old and a senior in college, my parents only lived an hour away, but they didn't like my boyfriend at the time and I easily made that hour distance seem like a huge thing. We went weeks without speaking. They even came to town to visit me and I avoided them because I was upset with them. Physical distance doesn't mean much. He may have been mad at his parents as well from the 2005 stuff and distanced himself from them.
 
  • #704
BEFORE THE MASS KILLINGS AT VT: I began a thread over a week ago here at Websleuths, on the Up to The Minute Forum, days later thread was moved to Crimes in the News.

Its title was Breaking News in Jackson County Ga. It covered a local high school which was terrorized almost two weeks ago by a student who entered the school with a bomb strapped to his body. He was arrested and the bomb was exploded by bomb teams...

The following day our neighboring county received a system wide bomb threat. Our 991 dispatch, LE and School System miserably failed to communicate properly between themselves and the safety and well-being of our students and staff were greatly compromised.

As a former teacher, due to my inside knowlege of MANY previous failings of our system to properly handle similar situations, I saught help here in how to best respond to the issues at hand legally and confidentially.
Previously, I had gone through the proper channels within our system to no avail.

This time I knew the media must be involved to obtain any CHANGE in standard procedure when necessary to inact the system's Emergency Safety Plan.

During the first couple of hours following my post here at WS the thread received many, many 'hits' with NO replies.

I 'bit the bullet', and threw caution to the wind, knowing full well that my husband's business which is reliant on both the county government and the local school system could be greatly harmed by my passion to help the students and staff of our local school system remain safe.
I stayed up all night that night and wrote a letter to the editor of our local news paper. Monday morning I was on the phone with her for over an hour.

People often do not LISTEN. People often do not ACT. People often do not correct grevious ERRORS until AFTER A GREAT TRAGEDY.

Were it not for the extensive media coverage of this current VT tragedy and others like it, would people listen and act accordingly to try their best to prevent similar events from recurring?

I seriously doubt it.

I am thankful to the media for providing a VOICE that FORCES the PEOPLE to take their 'proverbial heads out of the sand' and to ACT.

Lord, help us. Have we as a society become so accustomed to violence against our children and the people in charge of their safety, well-being and educations that we must have 24/7 coverage by cable news stations to force us into action?

What has happened to us as a society?

Why must it take the masses of dead and injured bodies of students in one location to make us stand up, to make us listen and to force us to act upon what is our inherent basic instinct of self-preservation and nurturing as human-beings? :doh:
I remember your post on ANS forum referring us over to that post and I read it. I agree completely that something as society needs to be done and also heard this same issue addressed last night on FNC ~ specifically by Mark Fuhrman. I still can't understand the gun laws in Virginia which I believe contributed to this tragedy, as well as lack of adequate mental health care for the perpetrator when there were "red flags" up all around him. Yes, he is accountable for his actions, but at the same time when there are warning signs that aren't properly addressed and post-9/11 we're still selling firearms to "resident aliens" something is definitely wrong.
 
  • #705
I want to know what you guys think of this idea.............

I felt and still feel that immediately after the woman and attendent were shot around 7:15 in the morning, WHY the school waited so long tell the students about the shooting and the fact that both people were dead.

Now come on, I realize this Univ. is HUGE! 25,000 students, many in dorms and supposedly 9,000 students on their way to school. Like a small town.
They knew early in the morning that they had two dead people in another dorm, police were there, and all I've ever heard was that they thought the killer had fled the campus!

I live in San Diego CA, La Jolla to be exact. IF.........there is just a robbery or break-in........We've got hellicopters flying all over our area, back and forth, back and forth in a ten mile radius! Once they had a missing child from our local elementary and they were flying over AND making a LOUD announcement that a 9 yr. old was missing from La Jolla Elementary, told us what she was wearing, what color hair and height!

Here's is what I think campus's should do. College, High School, Elemementary schools. WE HAVE to do something!

Have a SIREN or SIREN'S in every school.


If this College had been able to turn on siren's throughout the campus this would mean to the students that something very dangerous was happening........or in this case, had happened. (the murders in the early morning). Stay in you dorm, lock the door to your room, if just coming to campus, leave as fast as possible.

So far, the only thing I've heard was that they thought the killer in the morning had fled! Jeeze, if you had two people murdered on your campus as early as 7:15 in the morning........wouldn't every person here immediately notify everyone else on campus? What were they thinking? :doh: :doh: :doh:

Those poor student's and teachers knew nothing until about 9:45 am, and it was too late!!!

My suggestion is to have siren's installed. All students would be given instruction's on what to do if they heard them. Any better suggestions?

xxxxxxxxooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Mama,

In a 'perfect World' yours is a wonderful suggestion, but:

Colleges are noted for attempting to cover-up, silence, etc. bad PR which results from violent events which occur on their campuses daily in order for their enrollment to stay up.

20/20, Dateline and others have done stories on this. Murders, rapes etc barely make a 'blimp' in the news because the colleges do not want the bad publicity....

This tragic mass murder on VT campus BECAME so large and horrific that there was only so much damage control which the college could successfully accomplish. (But do not be mistaken, in the beginning hours they desperately tried 'damage control'.)

Doesn't anyone find it remotely odd that with Columbine, the two student killers names and pictures were on TV within no time flat of the shootings and they stayed front and center for months afterward. A primarily county funded and operated 'business' such as a local school system has very limited funding in comparrison to that of a University........

We now finally know the identy of the shooter at VT, some..., how many, ???? hours, later....???

Colleges are almost like an Indian Reservation (can be- no offense intended toward our Native Americans) with their own 'Security' to often 'handle' their own 'issues', and in the case of colleges, these 'situations' are often handled as quietly as possible. When it is indeed a serious emergency with death and/or more criminal events and the local police are brought into the picture, they are often as 'silent' about the facts as the LE involved in this case.

Many college towns would not be more than a one traffic light, bump in the road, without the income generated from the college, its student body and faculty. The LE 'has no choice' but to scratch the back of the people 'scratching theirs'.

Colleges DO NOT WANT BAD PRESS. When it was two students murdered, it could have remained virtually unnoticed by the National Media. It happenes everyday on campuses all over the United States. Colleges characteristically downplay violence on their campuses to encourage high enrollment!

The bottom line is, that every parent in this country should educate their children in what to do in various emergency situations to protect themselves and others around them, (if they can help them, too), if they should they find themselves caught in a situation such as today when they are trapped and do not have the immediate support and help of school officials and law enforcement to keep them safe.

Parents of college age students must tell their children to listen to their own inner voice which warns them when a person 'makes the hair on the back of their neck stand up'. We must encourage our children NOT to ignore these God Given Gifts of judgement; these signs that something is amiss. Each parent needs to verbally cover various scenarios and suggest the best course of action the college level student needs to consider prior to their ever finding themselves in the position of having to choose between using their body or a huge desk to blockade a door to achieve safety from a crazed gunman in a classroom setting. Students need to know that jumping into shrubbry will break their fall and may prevent a broken leg, when trying to escape from a two story window.


Parents of students (High School and Middle School age ) should also have codes with their children that identify emergency situations with both the parent and the student and a predesignated 'safe place' perarranged for pick up of child when necessary.

If they are under 'lock down', parents should advise students what to do in those situations as well.

Barricading the door with their bodies will get them killed.

Bowing on their knees to the gun man will get them shot in the head.

Carefully planned exit through windows may be their only emergency option.

Even older elementary school children, 4 th and 5 th graders can understand that an extreme emergency situation may dictate that the students themselves must make the decision to open the emergency exit door to their room and to run to safety on the school grounds, as they encourage other students to exit the same way. ( A teacher being violenty threatened by another adult at the classroom door- This type situation actually happened in our local school system, in my son's 4th grade classroom several years ago. Thankfully, I was aware of the danger my son and his classmates were in and had advised him of the situation prior to it actually happening. Teachers are human too... They can go through NASTY divorces with crazy husbands or wives... the same as the rest of the population can....We never know what may happen unexpectedly within our schools... and must prepare our children to deal with the dangers if they DO NOT have an adult official present and capable of doing it for them. )

Talking to our children about safety issues in today's school settings Kindergarten through College when the "SYSTEM" can not protect them may save their lives. (Of course, on an age appropriate scale....)

People.... please.... help PROTECT our Children.....Talk to them... Teach them how to protect themselves when there is no one else to do it for them.


Angelwngs, former teacher and concerned human............

(I can see it right now. The writing is on the wall for me. I am going to have to become an ACTIVIST for the safety and well-being of students in America... Dear Lord, help me, please... Too much Passion... and no place to release it to create the needed changes.......)
 
  • #706
MSNBC received a press release from Seung-Hui Cho. They turned it over, or at least a copy of it over to LE. They will be releasing some of the info received.
 
  • #707
I've read that his parents were concerned enough to have him admitted to a mental hospital in 2005 because they feared he was suicidal. I know when I was 22-23 years old and a senior in college, my parents only lived an hour away, but they didn't like my boyfriend at the time and I easily made that hour distance seem like a huge thing. We went weeks without speaking. They even came to town to visit me and I avoided them because I was upset with them. Physical distance doesn't mean much. He may have been mad at his parents as well from the 2005 stuff and distanced himself from them.
Even at that, his behavior was "odd" before he left home and went to college. It's when the authorities at school notice something's wrong and nothing's done about it that worries me more than his parents. There's a pattern forming and several incidents that have been brought to light in the last couple of days that if something more had been done these 32 students and professors would still be alive.
 
  • #708
MSNBC received a press release from Seung-Hui Cho. They turned it over, or at least a copy of it over to LE. They will be releasing some of the info received.
Thanks for the heads up! :)
 
  • #709
Minutes ago, CNN reported on TV, and this is the only written report I can find right now, I believe it is a developing story:

Court: Cho ruled 'an imminent danger'

"BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- Cho Seung-Hui in 2005 was declared mentally ill by a Virginia special justice, who declared he was "an imminent danger to others," a court document states.

Cho was referred to a mental health facility that year after officers responded to accusations he was suicidal and stalked female students, police said Wednesday.

It is unclear if that declaration and the referral were related."
 
  • #710
MSNBC received a press release from Seung-Hui Cho. They turned it over, or at least a copy of it over to LE. They will be releasing some of the info received.

It contained, pictures,writttings & videos. It was mailed between the 1st shootings and the 2nd.
 
  • #711
  • #712
It contained, pictures,writttings & videos. It was mailed between the 1st shootings and the 2nd.


Was it emailed or regular mail, does anyone know?
 
  • #713
The difference is that this happened on a college campus rather than in a war zone. The students and faculty did not realize they were in danger that morning.

I agree. I wish some posters would stop comparing this to the war.
That's like comparing Katrina to the Tsunami.
They each can have their own stories and touch people differently. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Let the rest of us grieve about the VT shootings without bringing politics into this
PLEASE!



Thank you.
 
  • #714
Sometime after he killed two people in a dormitory but before he slaughtered 30 more in a classroom building Monday morning, Cho Seung-Hui sent NBC News a rambling communication and videos about his grievances, the network said Wednesday.
Network officials turned the material over to the FBI and said they would not immediately disclose its contents pending the agency’s review beyond characterizing the material as “disturbing.” It included a written communication, photographs and video.
The network said it would release a statement shortly.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/
 
  • #715
Was it emailed or regular mail, does anyone know?
They're saying it was mailed, but not how. Since it took two days to receive, I don't believe it could be email.
 
  • #716
I can't really say I agree with the blame being placed on the parents. The man is 23 years old, has been at college for at least four years. Do we even know that he kept in close contact with them? He's of age, and responsible for his own actions.
I agree with you, Les. I wonder if this young man developed a mental or physical illness after he left home. I don't know much about mental illness, but I have to wonder about paranoid schizophrenia...or some such illness that would precipitate this horrible event.
 
  • #717
  • #718
Granted, but there's a difference between "noticing" and predicting this result. Maybe they were concerned, maybe they did take action.

Who among us can honestly imagine that anyone we know will take up guns and kill 30+ people?

But if anyone is wondering: I'm sure the parents are suffering mightily now. Forgive me for generalizing, but Asian cultures tend to be shame-based and the actions of a child reflect greatly on the parents.

Even if they somehow contributed - through action or inaction - to this event, they are surely paying for it now.


I have the same feelings about this. One thing to keep in mind is that how parents see their child, and how the child's peers see them is going to be different. I am sure that they knew he had issues, but they more than likely had no idea what he wrote in his writing classes, and what I have seen is that the people who became the most concerned about his behavior were the people that were in those creative writing classes. The casual acquaintances tended to just go on about how odd he was, and how he didn't talk much.
What I am saying is that the people who saw the clues that were the most telling and frightening, were most likely not his family. I truly feel terrible for them as well, because they are victims too.
I think that one of the most awe inspiring reactions that I have ever seen in the face of any of these types of tragedies is how the Amish reacted after the slaughter in their schoolhouse. They placed no blame on the killer's family, and offered his family their support. I think that while most of us think of the Amish lifestyle as a little extreme, we could all learn something from them.
 
  • #719
They're saying it was mailed, but not how. Since it took two days to receive, I don't believe it could be email.

Ok that is what I thought. On CNN they just said sent via US Mail. Thanks
 
  • #720
I have the same feelings about this. One thing to keep in mind is that how parents see their child, and how the child's peers see them is going to be different. I am sure that they knew he had issues, but they more than likely had no idea what he wrote in his writing classes, and what I have seen is that the people who became the most concerned about his behavior were the people that were in those creative writing classes. The casual acquaintances tended to just go on about how odd he was, and how he didn't talk much.
What I am saying is that the people who saw the clues that were the most telling and frightening, were most likely not his family. I truly feel terrible for them as well, because they are victims too.
I think that one of the most awe inspiring reactions that I have ever seen in the face of any of these types of tragedies is how the Amish reacted after the slaughter in their schoolhouse. They placed no blame on the killer's family, and offered his family their support. I think that while most of us think of the Amish lifestyle as a little extreme, we could all learn something from them.

What happened in the Amish school a few short months ago has been running through my head since the news broke about V.Tech.

i'm simply not decent enough not to apportion blame, i'm afarid.

with regards to the Amish community, i have great hope they are continuing to heal amongst themselves.
 

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