VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007

[Texana]

Here Sie Sie:

Google American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry + children and TV violence

http://www.aacap.org/page.ww?name=children+and+TV+violence&section=Facts+for+Families

maybe this link will work; but it's pretty easy to find some studies if you look.

I don't know if they've done studies exclusively on video games. I would think someone has by now.

Thanks for the reference, Marthatex! And also, very appropriate verse on your siggy. :blowkiss:

 

[dhchick04]

I think the professor went to authorities - even police. It was THEY who said they couldn't do anything.

I should think any professor should be able to kick out a student (of class). Instead this professor tried to help; went to authorities, and I guess left it there. She knew he was very disturbed.

She and other professors could have flunked him, at least he would have had to leave.

One of his prof's, Niki Giovanni, said she told her higher up's that she refused to let him stay in her class and that he had to go or she would. So, I assume by this he was kicked out of her class.

 

[panthera]

I think if he had been flunked he would have returned just the same.

But it does just baffle and frustrate that "nothing" could be done.

I guess since there is no longer involuntary commitment to mental institutions now--unless you have done something criminal you can be released on your own recognizance--we cannot just lock up people who threaten to kill other people.

Until they do kill other people.

That does seem just, well, wrong, obviously.

It's like being stuck between the rock and hard place. You're right, if the university had expelled him he'd probably come back and blown up the place. And in fairness to others who wouldn't have gone out and killed people as he did, it's good that people can't be locked up in mental hospitals without cause. However I do think that threatening to kill others shouldn't be ignored either. I don't know what the right answer is, but in hindsight I think a lot of people are going to be searching for it.

 

[panthera]

One of his prof's, Niki Giovanni, said she told her higher up's that she refused to let him stay in her class and that he had to go or she would. So, I assume by this he was kicked out of her class.

Yes, I just saw that on Nancy Grace tonight.

 

[Marthatex]

It's like being stuck between the rock and hard place. You're right, if the university had expelled him he'd probably come back and blown up the place. And in fairness to others who wouldn't have gone out and killed people as he did, it's good that people can't be locked up in mental hospitals without cause. However I do think that threatening to kill others shouldn't be ignored either. I don't know what the right answer is, but in hindsight I think a lot of people are going to be searching for it.

I'm hearing tonight on MSNBC, that the Court in 2005 declared him incompetent and a "danger to himself and others".

If that's true, then there's no excuse for letting him back in that school. Dr. Susan Lipkins, a pschologist specializing in school violence referred to him as probably "schizophrenic", or "paranoid schizophrenic". There are so many numerous complaints against him, this is just looking worse and worse.

I don't think I remember anything quite so horrible as this troubled person and what he did. (excluding 9-11, which was a horrible pre-planned group terrorist attack of course)

For one person to do this; well I forgot the Oklahoma bombing was probably the worse, but even Timothy McVey was not deranged like this boy.

Lipkins said there should definitely be a school system in place for preventing such an act from a deranged student.

 

[SieSie]

Here Sie Sie:

Google American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry + children and TV violence

http://www.aacap.org/page.ww?name=children+and+TV+violence&section=Facts+for+Families

maybe this link will work; but it's pretty easy to find some studies if you look.

I don't know if they've done studies exclusively on video games. I would think someone has by now.

Thanks so much, Martha!!

 

[Marthatex]

One of his prof's, Niki Giovanni, said she told her higher up's that she refused to let him stay in her class and that he had to go or she would. So, I assume by this he was kicked out of her class.

It looks to me like they had an administration that did not take the professors seriously enough.

Some admins are sympathetic and respect their professors, others do not - but prefer the politicians and parents who feed their coffers. They live in one world, the professors live in their classroom world.

 

[Texana]

It's like being stuck between the rock and hard place. You're right, if the university had expelled him he'd probably come back and blown up the place. And in fairness to others who wouldn't have gone out and killed people as he did, it's good that people can't be locked up in mental hospitals without cause. However I do think that threatening to kill others shouldn't be ignored either. I don't know what the right answer is, but in hindsight I think a lot of people are going to be searching for it.

You are so right--I think there was a grad student a couple of years ago who did shoot his professors for failing him--wish I could remember other than that he was a grad student.

Maybe this will finally be the thing that, as you said, makes a lot of people search for the right answer. Maybe so many people search for solutions, we actually find some.

 

[concernedperson]

I believe his mental illness was personality disorderd vs. any other DSM. His messiah indications are not isolated as far as others. His ramblings indicate another introduction possibly schizophrenia. Charles Manson is one, Ted Bundy is another, Jim Jones is another.

Trust me I know about the ramblings as I have seen this. But, my brother has not gone on a rampage yet. Does LE know about him? Yes, they do. Do my parents know about this? Yes, they do.Does anyone do anything about it, no they don't.

 

[Marthatex]

Glad you mentioned this. I am watching Nancy Grace and a guy on her show said something to the effect that we can't get our hands on mental health reports.

I know for a fact this is true and no matter how much you call LE about about a person's aberrant behavior if you don't have corroborating evidence then a lot goes unheeded. Some of the institutions (all because of HIPPA laws) will not release info even if LE was the ones that requested they be held.

They will be held for a minimum period of time if their overall response seems OK. Most people with problems can and do know how to sidetrack and the professionals will abide by this, unless the person is out of control. But subliminal responses don't warrant extra stays in hospitals.

This is so frustrating to witness. The rambling verbage on the video is exactly what has been going on for awhile when he did talk. This is why he didn't talk much as it is a giveaway.

Good point.

 

[reb]

my first thought was paranpid schizophrenia (but there was no evidence we know of that he had hallucinations), or some kind of schizoid disorder.... bordering on psycotic, as he seems to be quite delusional in his rage (although i must say, i share much of his frustration and disdain for the sickeningly rich of this country.. but i certainly am not going to go kill anyone over it!) but more than anything he has some kind of anger 'disorder' (i hate to call it that, because that implies that he's an 'innocent victim of his illness'..).. but i do think there ws something gone haywire chemically, emotionally, intellectually, socially, spiritually.. the whole works. THIS type of thing my friends is NOT something that can be fixed with a pill.. in fact- people like him may only be made worse with psych drugs. this is not 'pop a prozac for a few weeks and your mood may be a bit brighter'.. this is a profound disturbance. he should have been hospitalized in a SERIOUS psych hospital indefinitely, until they could get to the bottom of his brain/personality disorder and he could be made human again (if that was at all possible). and they DEFINITELY should have gotten him an MRI & other brain testing to see if he had a brain tumor or some other abnormality!!! (remember charles whitman had a small lesion on his brain but they somehow determined that 'it had nothing to do with the rampage'...(...huh...??!!.....uh, OK, if you say so))...
anyway if he isn't a sociopath i don't know what is.. and i would think the doctors would have seen that and warned his parents not to let him go back to school. how could he have slipped through the cracks like this...???

 

[panthera]

I'm hearing tonight on MSNBC, that the Court in 2005 declared him incompetent and a "danger to himself and others".

If that's true, then there's no excuse for letting him back in that school. Dr. Susan Lipkins, a pschologist specializing in school violence referred to him as probably "schizophrenic", or "paranoid schizophrenic". There are so many numerous complaints against him, this is just looking worse and worse.

I don't think I remember anything quite so horrible as this troubled person and what he did. (excluding 9-11, which was a horrible pre-planned group terrorist attack of course)

For one person to do this; well I forgot the Oklahoma bombing was probably the worse, but even Timothy McVey was not deranged like this boy.

Lipkins said there should definitely be a school system in place for preventing such an act from a deranged student.

It seems as soon as we post something, a new development comes up with more information on this guy which does make the scenario worse. If that court ruling in 2005 declared him a "danger to himself and others" then the university definitely should've expelled him ~ but then also why wasn't he kept in the mental facility or at the minimum more closely watched? And again, why was there nothing to prevent him from buying those firearms?

As for McVeigh, even he didn't operate alone and there weren't the 'red flags'.

 

[panthera]

You are so right--I think there was a grad student a couple of years ago who did shoot his professors for failing him--wish I could remember other than that he was a grad student.

Maybe this will finally be the thing that, as you said, makes a lot of people search for the right answer. Maybe so many people search for solutions, we actually find some.

I remember something about that one too. In this case, I can't really understand who Cho is specifically directing his anger at. He said "you did it" (paraphrased) in his video, but is it a collective "you" as in society or someone in particular? Reports yesterday said he had issues with the "rich kids" yet those he shot were a combination of professors and students who didn't seem to be of one class of people. And reports today say that he himself came from an upper middle-class family.

 

[reb]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419...t_professor;_ylt=Ank1syaRdeiN_euUFdwF2aPMWM0F

don't know if this has been posted before, but it gives a lot of insight, from the few professors who interacted with him.

 

[philamena]

I remember something about that one too. In this case, I can't really understand who Cho is specifically directing his anger at. He said "you did it" (paraphrased) in his video, but is it a collective "you" as in society or someone in particular? Reports yesterday said he had issues with the "rich kids" yet those he shot were a combination of professors and students who didn't seem to be of one class of people. And reports today say that he himself came from an upper middle-class family.

The talking heads and psychiatrist discussed this tonight. Seems they have no idea who Cho is referring to. Obviously Cho was a very sick young man. A psychiatrist on CNN said Cho was an angry, psychotic man who exploded because of his anger.

 

[mysteriew]

I think this was all preplanned well in advance, he didn't just shoot the girl and the RA and start thinking well might as well.
Shooting in the one building and then going to a different building was probably planned to allow him to do maximum damage. By waiting, he would know that quite a few LE was tied up at the first scene.
In the pictures they are showing, he is wearing different outfits in different pics. So they were recorded over a period of time.
He wrote the manifesto, 1800 words means that he spent quite a bit of time on it.
Does anyone know how long he was in the second building?

 

[philamena]

I think this was all preplanned well in advance, he didn't just shoot the girl and the RA and start thinking well might as well.
Shooting in the one building and then going to a different building was probably planned to allow him to do maximum damage. By waiting, he would know that quite a few LE was tied up at the first scene.
In the pictures they are showing, he is wearing different outfits in different pics. So they were recorded over a period of time.
He wrote the manifesto, 1800 words means that he spent quite a bit of time on it.
Does anyone know how long he was in the second building?

mysteriew,
I agree, imo the attack was planned well in advance. Sheppard Smith reported tonight that the manifesto was most likely written over a week ago. One of the guns was purchased in Feb.
IMO, Cho planned the massacre weeks if not months in advance.

 

[nanandjim]

I think this was all preplanned well in advance,

Was it mentioned if he knew the first girl that he shot in the dormitory? I'm assuming that he shot the RA when he came to her aid.

 

[angelwngs]

Oh yes ~ I have been :furious: since last night about this guy and how no one could intervene (like that professor who was disturbed by his writings), like if they did, nothing would be done. And I'm still about him being able to buy two guns with a "green card".]]

I'm angry too - I just read a msnbc article quoting a psychologist familiar with a Secret Service Study done in 2002 on school shootings.

This was a classic school shooting. His name is Robert Fein, he says they "are not in high school" but the school should be able to do "better than that!"

There should be a SCHOOL TEAM (adm., teacher, psychologist) equipped to deal with a problem student like this, so he can be identified and steps taken to either help him, contact parents, or expell him if necessary. Depending on the situation, the team would decide what to do.

He says if teachers and students act quickly together the attack can be headed off.

[B]schools should spell out unacceptable behavior; what it is A code of Conduct should be made clear.

That way if it's violated, other students can tell authorities, or teachers will have a reason to remove them from class, etc.Classic School Shooting:

1) They don't "just snap", it's planned, usually in steps

2) They are considered a threat by others, even tho' they may not make an explicit verbal threat

3)Fellow students & teachers raised a concern about the behavior

There needs to be a team that examinges each situation (threats towards girls, for instance)

Marthatex: That kind of language and behavior in a "school play or essay", should be reason to "send him to the team", and flunk the class - since when has that been acceptable for passing grade in a reputable college.

Maybe if student was flunking, parent would be notified.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[angelwngs]

Was it mentioned if he knew the first girl that he shot in the dormitory? I'm assuming that he shot the RA when he came to her aid.

That is what has been reported.

I have heard that the 1st girl shot and killed, I believe her name was Emily Hilscher attended the same high school as Cho but that they did not graduate the same year and it was still unknown if he knew her.

The RA, Ryan Clark came to Emily's defense.

List updated of the confirmed deceased.

http://www.collegemedia.com/stories/417-300am-none.html

Excellent link- The Collegiate Times

http://collegemedia.com/