Vatican calling for Boycott of Da Vinci Code

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i am in the middle of this book. i am very dissappointed. from the page that begins FACT:.. it goes downhill. the priory of sion was a 20th century scam, not an ancient sect. mr brown has that 'fact' wrong from get go, and it is a major theme in this novel.

some of the concepts have merit. leonardo was a fascinating and brilliant man. much of the shameful history of the catholic church, and christianity in general, is true. all mainstream religions that i can think of have shameful histories, in one way or another. much to do with the twisting of "the feminine" is historically true. (personally i always understood this, sorta. a bunch of men who never get laid would learn to hate females, to compensate)

its not well written. often a thought is written, then repeated almost verbatim, basically filler. im not sure why the chapters are all chopped up, makes no sense to me, and is annoying. the research is awful. i found more interesting (and provable) facts by googling stuff over a few days than mr brown did.

i usually read in bed, and this puts me to sleep better than sleeping pills. i am determined to finish it, but its not riveting LOL. maybe when the movie hits the $2 bin ill see it on video.

i dont think catholics, or anyone else, need to get their knickers in a knot over this. i think mr brown has made a fool of himself.
 
TisHerself said:
What does this have to do with The Da Vinci Code?

And you can't have it both ways, if they have lost their power to censor then how could they censor it?


In the past they were a force to be reckoned with..Yes and your point is?????
If they were a force to be reckoned with in the past, then why are you even concerned with them now?
I mean what is the problem according to that they are no big deal now so why do you even care what they think or say about this movie or anything for that matter?
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This thread has from the very begining been about the issue of the Church calling for a boycott of DVC and not really about DVC itself.

The first couple posters said they thought it was absurd for the Church to call for a boycott and Catholic posters started providing links defending the Church's POV on the DVC.

Fifty to seventy posts later I joined in asking the same question you ask. What does all this have to do with DVC?

The thread seemed to meander into "all things Catholic and how everyone feels about it". Everything from an 8 year old child communion being judged invalid because the host was not made out of wheat to the Churche's prior policy of protecting child molesting priests to papal infallibility etc etc etc.

I gave up a long time ago trying to hold the topic to DVC boycott by the RCC and allowed my self to free associate all things Catholic along with everyone else.

Catholics choose to explain Church doctrine to posters and posters continue to challenge that.

Really Catholics ought to debate Church doctrine among themselves. Respect the Pope and the authority of the Church, keep the faith.

Don't expect people of other faith traditions to understand and automatically respect each and every stand the Church publically takes.

As to why I or anyone else care about this topic is irrelevant. The topic is not about me. For the record, I picked up the book once and could not see what the big deal was. A good friend of mine really wants me to read it and I will by I am otherwise not attracted to it. I did not intend to see it before the thread, but now I will because of all the furor over it. I want to see for myself what on earth the big deal is.

The thread started being about the Vatican calling for a boycott of the DVC and has evolved into many other side topics, each interesting in and of themselves.

For what its worth, what happens to me is some Catholic poster throw's out a term I do not understand. I google the definition and look for related articles. That led to interesting POV's about blasphemy, heresy, papal infallibility and the history of the Catholic Church in the world.

I read articles about the historical response of the Church to art and writing that the Church found threatening and the efforts it makes in the present to suppress dissent. Currently, internationally DVC is being banned and censored. It may have started as a US boycott but has quickly spread to a worldwide response. Other religions, such as Islam, have weighed in.
 
 
cappuccina said:
(...you're kidding, right...??)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03519d.htm
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,808852,00.html
http://www.fordham.edu/HALSALL/MOD/trent-booksrules.html
http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1996/il9603120.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_organized_religion
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0300063733/002-1554832-1445600?v=glance&n=283155
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/Speech/libraries/topic.aspx?topic=banned_books
http://www.answers.com/topic/censorship-by-organized-religion
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/roman_catholic_church/index.html?query=CENSORSHIP&field=des&match=exact

Related topics: Opus Dei - Censorship & other Questionable Activities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_dei
http://www.odan.org/resources.htm
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Unless I overlooked it, I didn't see the Da Vinci Code mentioned in any of those links. Saw some books in the 1500's and some from the 4th century. But not the DVC, which is what I asked you to show had been literally censored.
 
Dark Knight said:
Unless I overlooked it, I didn't see the Da Vinci Code mentioned in any of those links. Saw some books in the 1500's and some from the 4th century. But not the DVC, which is what I asked you to show had been literally censored.
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I think some confusion is that your post was general DK. I assumed you were talking specificaly about DVC, but it was ambiguous. With that being said and knowing that you were talking about DVC, I think the few links that worked made your point.
Boycotting is an expression of protest, which I find to be differnt than true censorship. But certainly that is debatable as well.
 
All you would ever want to know and more about Catholic censorhsip from the Catholic encyclopedia.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03519d.htm

Realtionship to DVC:

"Cardinal Arinze seeks to prevent portrayals of Catholicism that he disagrees with, calling respect for his creed a "fundamental human right" and asking that Catholics take legal steps to prevent the showing of these portrayals.

But why? How is the demand that the world respect the tenets of one's religious beliefs a "fundamental human right?"

Where does this right draw its justification? Is it because God commands it? How is God's alleged commandment binding upon me, if I find no reason to believe in God?

How is it that I am bound to genuflect before the mystical whims of others?"

And note that Arinze is not calling for religious liberty--he is not calling for his right to argue for his philosophy free from coercion.

Instead, he holds that his faith gives him the right to silence others.

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.php?showtopic=6607
 
JBean said:
I think some confusion is that your post was general DK. I assumed you were talking specificaly about DVC, but it was ambiguous. With that being said and knowing that you were talking about DVC, I think the few links that worked made your point.
Boycotting is an expression of protest, which I find to be differnt than true censorship. But certainly that is debatable as well.
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Oops! I was just using her own words about "censoring a mainstream fictional work" in my post assuming she meant the DVC, since that's the thread topic, lol. So yes, I meant the DVC. Like you so astutely pointed out, protest or condemnation is not censorship. And it's our right to protest or condemn something if we want to, and other can or can't go along with it, that's up to them. But some who aren't even members seem "scared" of the Catholic Church so they feel the need to attack it's authority, even if it doesn't affect them in any literal way. It's a shame some feel that way, but it's apparently a reality for some. *shrugs* Catholicaphobia?? lol!
 
windovervocalcords said:
All you would ever want to know and more about Catholic censorhsip from the Catholic encyclopedia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03519d.htm
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with the Da Vinci Code? :crazy:

Please stick to 21's century examples, or at least late 20th, lol.

There is still no evidence of literal censorship of the DVC, and there never will be any. So that about ends that debate, it would seem.
 
Dark Knight said:
Oops! I was just using her own words about "censoring a mainstream fictional work" in my post assuming she meant the DVC, since that's the thread topic, lol. So yes, I meant the DVC. Like you so astutely pointed out, protest or condemnation is not censorship. And it's our right to protest or condemn something if we want to, and other can or can't go along with it, that's up to them. But some who aren't even members seem "scared" of the Catholic Church so they feel the need to attack it's authority, even if it doesn't affect them in any literal way. It's a shame some feel that way, but it's apparently a reality for some. *shrugs* Catholicaphobia?? lol!
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I can see how your post was misunderstood,so I am glad it is cleared up.
Also in that post you said
dark knight said:
Ultimately, if you aren't Catholic, it isn't your concern,
Click to expand...
I find this to be at the heart of the matter for me. I really hate to say this, but some non-Catholics are giving the Catholic Church more power than some Catholics do. :(
Now, if you are Catholic and disagree with the Church's stance, that is significant and it happens everyday on many issues with practicing Catholics.. It would make more sense to me to see more Catholics upset that this boycott was requested of them if they do not agree with it. but outrage from other religious groups makes no sense to me. Disagreement? sure. Questions, yes! But outrage? don't get it.
 
JB I missed that other faiths are in outrage over the boycott. What are your sources?

DK: Cardinal Arindze called for legal steps to be taken to prevent portrayls of DVC.

Lots of assumptions going on about where posters are coming from...lots of labels too.

New one: "cathlophobe", lets address the boycott and opinions about it. I suppose "cathlophobe" is a step up from "liar" and "hater".

The movie has been banned in a number of countries. That is censorship pure and simple--end of debate lol.

(the thread should be relabeled: The Never Ending Story)
 
windovervocalcords said:
JB I missed that other faiths are in outrage over the boycott. What are your sources?

DK: Cardinal Arindze called for legal steps to be taken to prevent portrayls of DVC.

Lots of assumptions going on about where posters are coming from...lots of labels too.

New one: "cathlophobe", lets address the boycott and opinions about it. I suppose "cathlophobe" is a step up from "liar" and "hater".

The movie has been banned in a number of countries. That is censorship pure and simple--end of debate lol.

(the thread should be relabeled: The Never Ending Story)
Click to expand...
The banning, as I already said, was in Muslim and Communist countries, the church had little to do with it.

I am not familiar with that Cardinal, I'll look him up, thanks! (A Cardinal doesn't outrank the Pope, of course, lol.)
 
windovervocalcords said:
JB I missed that other faiths are in outrage over the boycott. What are your sources?

DK: Cardinal Arindze called for legal steps to be taken to prevent portrayls of DVC.

Lots of assumptions going on about where posters are coming from...lots of labels too.

New one: "cathlophobe", lets address the boycott and opinions about it. I suppose "cathlophobe" is a step up from "liar" and "hater".

The movie has been banned in a number of countries. That is censorship pure and simple--end of debate lol.

(the thread should be relabeled: The Never Ending Story)
Click to expand...
Hi. I was referring to this discussion actually. So i guess i could link the whole thread! lol! If those that I believe sound outraged are not of another faith, i stand corrected. or of they are not outraged I stand corrected too!
 
Dark Knight said:
The banning, as I already said, was in Muslim and Communist countries, the church had little to do with it.

I am not familiar with that Cardinal, I'll look him up, thanks! (A Cardinal doesn't outrank the Pope, of course, lol.)
Click to expand...
The Phillipines is not a communist country. It is predominantly Catholic not communist or muslim.

Cardinal Arindze is high up in the Church, was a candidate for Pope.
 
windovervocalcords said:
The Phillipines is not a communist country. It is predominantly Catholic not communist or muslim.

Cardinal Arindze is high up in the Church, was a candidate for Pope.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected, one predominately Catholic country banned it (I doubt the Church forced them too, however. Most likely their free choice to make.) I was thinking of their ongoing war with Muslim terrorists as well as Communists in the south.

Pakistan, China, etc. were ones I had in mind.
 
JBean said:
Hi. I was referring to this discussion actually. So i guess i could link the whole thread! lol! If those that I believe sound outraged are not of another faith, i stand corrected. or of they are not outraged I stand corrected too!
Click to expand...
LOL! I'd say 16 pages on a topic, including flames, plus another thread started due to impatience when this one was temporarily pulled, indicates maybe some misplaced outrage...or something, anyways, lol.

Cathophobes, I like it. We can use it as a weapon like liberals due homophobes, etc. :crazy:
 
windovervocalcords said:
This thread has from the very begining been about the issue of the Church calling for a boycott of DVC and not really about DVC itself.
This contradicts your comment from below that Catholics should debate Church Doctrine among themselves, now doesn't it? If Non Catholics are going to be discussing The Church that Catholics love and posting untruths then they are going to debate that.
The first couple posters said they thought it was absurd for the Church to call for a boycott and Catholic posters started providing links defending the Church's POV on the DVC.
Well since The Church did not call for a Boycott that would make the cries of absurd moot. The fact that several individuals were calling for boycotts because they felt their faith was being blasphemed, I don't see anything absurd in that. They have a right to call for a boycott if they want does not mean it will happen.
Fifty to seventy posts later I joined in asking the same question you ask. What does all this have to do with DVC?
No you are twisting my words we had moved way on from this, when I asked that question. When I asked this question we were specifically speaking about The Church censoring DVC, and you were showing proof of 30 yrs ago

Catholics choose to explain Church doctrine to posters and posters continue to challenge that.
No Catholics do not choose to explain Church doctrine to posters (I have no desire to explain church doctrine to posters). When posters such as yourself post lies about the pope, or lie about The Dogma or Doctrine then that's when we post.
Really Catholics ought to debate Church doctrine among themselves. Respect the Pope and the authority of the Church, keep the faith.
See Above..... Rather comical of you to tell us to Respect The Pope, and The Authority of The Church, and Keep The Faith.... Don't you think????
Don't expect people of other faith traditions to understand and automatically respect each and every stand the Church publically takes.
Now that is an absurd statement, How would I or any Catholic ever expect people of Other faiths or traditions to understand and automatically respect each and every stand the Church publically takes? Think about that statement it makes absolutely no sense.
As to why I or anyone else care about this topic is irrelevant. The topic is not about me. For the record, I picked up the book once and could not see what the big deal was. A good friend of mine really wants me to read it and I will by I am otherwise not attracted to it. I did not intend to see it before the thread, but now I will because of all the furor over it. I want to see for myself what on earth the big deal is.
Are you serious? Ofcourse it is relevant, why are you even posting on here,? Why are you posting on a dicussion thread about DVC if you don't care about the topic?
For what its worth, what happens to me is some Catholic poster throw's out a term I do not understand. I google the definition and look for related articles. That led to interesting POV's about blasphemy, heresy, papal infallibility and the history of the Catholic Church in the world.
Yes then you post stuff from Anti Catholic propoganda sites that are trully offensive (and full of lies) to Catholics. Then have the Gall to tell us we should debate Doctrine among ourselves.
I read articles about the historical response of the Church to art and writing that the Church found threatening and the efforts it makes in the present to suppress dissent. Currently, internationally DVC is being banned and censored. It may have started as a US boycott but has quickly spread to a worldwide response. Other religions, such as Islam, have weighed in.You are just so bent on proving that the church called for a boycott of DVC when it did not. Those articles were in the 19 century nothing what so ever to do with now. If DVC is being banned internationally then they sure are wasting their time the furor about it is over.

DVC has run it's course Dan Brown is probably by now moved on and is in the middle of writing his new book. So over and out.
Click to expand...
 
Dark Knight said:
LOL! I'd say 16 pages on a topic, including flames, plus another thread started due to impatience when this one was temporarily pulled, indicates maybe some misplaced outrage...or something, anyways, lol.

Cathophobes, I like it. We can use it as a weapon like liberals due homophobes, etc. :crazy:
Click to expand...
Yeah, I get it.

"Cathophobes, homophobes, feminazis etc, etc.

Using labels for weapons, very likeable, you say.

There are many more pages of "outrage" on Tom Cruise, Britney Spears, Angelina Jolie.

DVC is small potatoes compared with that. Shall we call all those poster cruiseophobes, joliejunkies, spearites?
 
.....I gave you information....Please do not change your focus once you receive information....For example, the CC also called for censoring James Joyce's Ulysses, again, a mainstream author, mainstream book, now considered a "classic", read in literature classes at thousands of universities...

The ONLY reason the CC does not get further with their attempted direct ban on literature and other artwork they do not agree with is because we live in a country that clearly called for, and continues to call for, the SEPARATION of church and state since its inception. They have tried, as in the case with the motion picture industry, a "back door" approach, i.e., loading a board or organization with those with another agenda, but, in most cases, these efforts have not gotten very far. Now, we do have Supreme Court Justice Scalia to contend with, a prominent member of Opus Dei who is also on the Supreme Court, but he is only one individual....

To DK and Tis, JB, ec. I am not anti-Catholic per se. Let me explain where I am coming from. First of all, I am from a mixed religious background, Eastern Orthodox and Jewish, and while I consider myself to have cultural aspects of both, I do not subscribe to either religion in toto. For the proverbial "record", I am extremely well read in comparative religion, theology, world religions, etc.

My problem with the Catholic Church today lies with the fact that few priests and fewer CC officials are like Father Groppi, and more seem to be living a life of hypocrisy, rather than subscribing to the origianl tenets and core beliefs of Christianity...Ironically, in the US, it is often the inner city priests who are the most "true" to Chrisitan doctrine, rather than the priveleged officers of organizations like Opus Dei.

When I was a little girl, Father Groppi was a fabulous Catholic priest who worked tirelessly for the poor and disenfranchised, civil rights, minority rights, children's rights. He truly believed in what he was doing and lived it. The Catholic Church basically villified him for doing the right thing, and for his tireless service. He was loved by all who knew him in the inner-city neighborhoods of Milwaukee and elsewhere...An amazing man...God bless Father Groppi...Links about him...

http://www.cemeteries.org/fp_display.asp?id=109
http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/results.asp?keyword1=groppi
http://www.milwaukeecountyhistsoc.org/civilRights.htm
http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/arch/findaids/mssex.htm
http://www.italianrap.com/italam/heroes/james_groppi.html

So you see, DK, Tis, JB, and others....my issue goes much deeper than the DVC, it is the mean spriitedness and narrow vision by some extreme factions of the CC that I do not like, and I hope other more moderate Catholics are working to change... No religion is probolem-free; I can tell you where the problems lie with the EO and Jewish religions as well, I am a realist, and a humanitarian... I do not have any problem with criticism of religions my family members belong to. Without criticism, there is no dialogue or change. Many of the Catholics I know want changes in their church...My objection is to the fundamentalist fringe element of ANY religion, for with such a rigid belief structure comes intolerance, censorship, violcence, and the promotion of man's inhumanity to man, instead of the exact opposite... I cannot see Jesus calling for mean-spiritedness, censorship, elitism, or closed-mindedness as integral parts of Christianity, can you?
 
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